Canada (NATO) at war with Libya

[Topaz]

Norm Dixon as a source of truth...Norm Dixon?? OK, Topaz...here's a website you might like.

http://www.911truth.org/

I already knew about the website, but just goggle Hussein's chemical weapons/US and you will ge the same answer.

[DogOnPorch]

I already knew about the website, but just goggle Hussein's chemical weapons/US and you will ge the same answer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack#International_sources_for_technology_and_chemical_precursors

[scorpio]

Yup...all used in raising livestock if I'm not mistaken. Industrial solvents for the oil industry which were used in mustard gas production, as well.

Really? Here's a little more detail of some of the chemicals exported to Iraq:

Bacillus Anthracis: anthrax is a disease producing bacteria identified by the Department of Defense in The Conduct of the Persian Gulf War: Final Report to Contress, as being a major component in the Iraqi biological warfare program.

Anthrax is an often fatal infectious disease due to ingestion of spores. It begins abruptly with high fever, difficulty in breathing, and chest pain. The disease eventually results in septicemia (blood poisoning), and the mortality is high. Once septicemia is advanced, antibiotic therapy may prove useless, probably because the exotoxins remain, despite the death of the bacteria.

Clostridium Botulinum: A bacterial source of botulinum toxin, which causes vomiting, constipation, thirst, general weakness, headache, fever, dizziness, double vision, dilation of the pupils and paralysis of the muscles involving swallowing. It is often fatal.

Histoplasma Capsulatum: causes a disease superfically resembling tuberculosis that may cause pneumonia, enlargement of the liver and spleen, anemia, an influenza like illness and an acute inflammatory skin disease marked by tender red nodules, usually on the shins. Reactivated infection usually involves the lungs, the brain, spinal membranes, heart, peritoneum, and the adrenals.

Brucella Melitensis: a bacteria which can cause chronic fatique, loss of appetite, profuse sweating when at rest, pain in joints and muscles, insomnia, nausea, and damage to major organs.

Clostridium Perfringens: a highly toxic bateria which causes gas gangrene. The bacteria produce toxins that move along muscle bundles in the body killing cells and producing necrotic tissue that is then favorable for further growth of the bacteria itself. Eventually, these toxins and bacteria enter the bloodstream and cause a systemic illness.

Edited March 21, 2011 by scorpio

[DogOnPorch]

Really?

Yes. All are common bacteria or fungi. Not chemicals. All are related to animal vaccine research/livestock raising/et al. Plus, I'm sure you're aware Saddam never attacked folks with biological weapons...right?

Edited March 21, 2011 by DogOnPorch

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Yes. All are common bacteria or fungi. Not chemicals. All are related to animal vaccine research/livestock raising/et al. Plus, I'm sure you're aware Saddam never attacked folks with biological weapons...right?

What is with the hair splitting contest?

Weapons of mass destruction are simply that. Biological, chemical, nuclear, you name which one....no real difference because dead as dog shit is, as dead as dog shit period. Not one live lost you understand, but instead hundreds or worst yet, thousands of lives lost with each use of the weapon. That is the functional description of the weapon.

It is not just madmen that use such weapons, even sane people use them. That is because the damned things are merely tools for the politicians and assets for the military folks. We have gone so far as to coin a phrase...."Limited warfare". This crap happens because of our chosen path toward an enlightened civilization. We have allowed politicians to have free reign in making decisions for nations. We have provided the military with the tools and systems they desire that are designed to kill. We have done everything but prevent war.

[DogOnPorch]

What is with the hair splitting contest?

Weapons of mass destruction are simply that. Biological, chemical, nuclear, you name which one....no real difference because dead as dog shit is, as dead as dog shit period. Not one live lost you understand, but instead hundreds or worst yet, thousands of lives lost with each use of the weapon. That is the functional description of the weapon.

It is not just madmen that use such weapons, even sane people use them. That is because the damned things are merely tools for the politicians and assets for the military folks. We have gone so far as to coin a phrase...."Limited warfare". This crap happens because of our chosen path toward an enlightened civilization. We have allowed politicians to have free reign in making decisions for nations. We have provided the military with the tools and systems they desire that are designed to kill. We have done everything but prevent war.

I'll take crazy rebuttals for $1,000, Alex.

[scorpio]

Yes. All are common bacteria or fungi. Not chemicals. All are related to animal vaccine research/livestock raising/et al. Plus, I'm sure you're aware Saddam never attacked folks with biological weapons...right?

My bad re chemicals vs. biologicals. But Saddam had a biological weapons program was willing ready and able to use them.

...it became known that in December 1990 the Iraqis had filled 100 R-400 (Oka) missiles with botulinum toxin, 50 with anthrax, and 16 with aflatoxin. In addition, 13 Al Hussein (SCUD) warheads were filled with botulinum toxin, 10 with anthrax, and 2 with aflatoxin. These weapons were deployed in January 1991 to four locations for use against Coalition forces.[12] link

I don't wish to belabour the point, just want to claim that the biologicals sent to Iraq definitely had another purpose.

[DogOnPorch]

My bad re chemicals vs. biologicals. But Saddam had a biological weapons program was willing ready and able to use them.

...it became known that in December 1990 the Iraqis had filled 100 R-400 (Oka) missiles with botulinum toxin, 50 with anthrax, and 16 with aflatoxin. In addition, 13 Al Hussein (SCUD) warheads were filled with botulinum toxin, 10 with anthrax, and 2 with aflatoxin. These weapons were deployed in January 1991 to four locations for use against Coalition forces.[12] link

I don't wish to belabour the point, just want to claim that the biologicals sent to Iraq definitely had another purpose.

Yeah...a duel purpose. But gasoline has a duel purpose as a Molotov Cocktail and a screwdriver will double as a knife in a pinch...as does nearly anything else one cares to name.

[wyly]

The rebel force attacks Gadaffi, people killed by the rebel force.

Gadaffi want them stop, they didn't, Gadaffi attacked the rebel force.

Western nations ask Gadaffi stop attacking rebel force. Gadaffi didn't Western nation attacked Gadaffi and attacked Libya people there.

wow you're really out of touch with reality...unarmed demonstrators were shot and killed by ghadaffi security forces, it was violence by ghadaffi the touched of the more violent responses...if I peacefully protest against my government and the government starts killing my fellow protestors I'm going to defend myself....

[wyly]

But not Bahrain? We're allied with the Arab League in support of freedom-fighters in Libya while the same Arab League rushes to support the suppression of freedom-fighting in Bahrain. The sheer chutzpah and hypocrisy is phenomenal. What unutterably ugly times we live in.

This sort of moral dissonance is high octane gasoline to radical Islam.

Humanity has truly taken a hard turn towards the surreal.

well there is a difference of scale, ghadaffi's response is much more bloody...as well the US has political influence in Bahrain to effect/encourage a political change, it had no such influence in Libya...

[GostHacked]

My bad re chemicals vs. biologicals. But Saddam had a biological weapons program was willing ready and able to use them.

...it became known that in December 1990 the Iraqis had filled 100 R-400 (Oka) missiles with botulinum toxin, 50 with anthrax, and 16 with aflatoxin. In addition, 13 Al Hussein (SCUD) warheads were filled with botulinum toxin, 10 with anthrax, and 2 with aflatoxin. These weapons were deployed in January 1991 to four locations for use against Coalition forces.[12] link

I don't wish to belabour the point, just want to claim that the biologicals sent to Iraq definitely had another purpose.

Saddam did posses the ability prior to the first gulf war. They had no chance to resurrect those programs after the first gulf war. So when the ramp up for the second gulf war happened, it was all red herrings, because the Coalition destroyed Saddam's capability to restart those programs during the first war. There were never any traces (the ones brought forth by the Pentagon were complete fabrications, like the yellowcake from Niger) of any bio or nuke program.

[DogOnPorch]

Saddam did posses the ability prior to the first gulf war. They had no chance to resurrect those programs after the first gulf war. So when the ramp up for the second gulf war happened, it was all red herrings, because the Coalition destroyed Saddam's capability to restart those programs during the first war. There were never any traces (the ones brought forth by the Pentagon were complete fabrications, like the yellowcake from Niger) of any bio or nuke program.

But as I've mentioned 100s of times now, there are still mountains (literally) of chemical weapons precursors that were never found. MIA.

[GostHacked]

But as I've mentioned 100s of times now, there are still mountains (literally) of chemical weapons precursors that were never found. MIA.

Lack of evidence is not evidence. Try again.

[bjre]

wow you're really out of touch with reality...unarmed demonstrators were shot and killed by ghadaffi security forces, it was violence by ghadaffi the touched of the more violent responses...if I peacefully protest against my government and the government starts killing my fellow protestors I'm going to defend myself....

Unarmed with guns and airplane fighters?

Unarmed Canadians were shot by rubber bullets by cops during G20 in Toronto.

[madmax]

wow you're really out of touch with reality...unarmed demonstrators were shot and killed by ghadaffi security forces, it was violence by ghadaffi the touched of the more violent responses...if I peacefully protest against my government and the government starts killing my fellow protestors I'm going to defend myself....

Its a Civil war set on an East West narrative. The people of Benghazi will be protected from retribution, but its unlikely they will be able to regain access to the oilfields that the had occupied earlier.

The other Arab countries currently in revolt are shooting and killing the protestors (who are not armed, unlike the Libyan rebel forces) and these other rebellions are likely to be crushed with government security forces.

After China cracked down on Freedom and Democracy, it became the country of choice for investment.

If you take up arms against a government that group is normally labelled a terrorist organization. This will not be the case with regards to Libya.

Perhaps Ghadafis greatest mistake was trusting George Bush and reestablishing relations with the US. It must have made him feel like a credible force in the Arab world.

Ghadafy will go, but I don't believe we will have any net effect in a civil war other then to orchestrate a stalemate.

[capricorn]

Unarmed with guns and airplane fighters?

You ain't seen nothing yet. Just wait til the coalition arms every Libyan rebel with rapid fire machine guns and grenades.

Unarmed Canadians were shot by rubber bullets by cops during G20 in Toronto.

And they lived to tell about it. Unarmed Libyan rebels, not so lucky.

[madmax]

You ain't seen nothing yet. Just wait til the coalition arms every Libyan rebel with rapid fire machine guns and grenades.

And they lived to tell about it. Unarmed Libyan rebels, not so lucky.

The Libyan civil war propoganda machines on both sides cannot be trusted. Many stories start iwth "Unconfirmed Reports and Unconfirmed sources" stating "unconfirmed facts" as facts...

The U.N. special envoy for children in armed conflicts, Radhika Coomaraswamy, also says human rights groups and local civilians are providing unconfirmed reports that children are being killed and injured by taking up arms in Libya.

As soon as its confirmed, it goes from Rumour to fact.

Edited March 21, 2011 by madmax

[bjre]

You ain't seen nothing yet. Just wait til the coalition arms every Libyan rebel with rapid fire machine guns and grenades.

And wait the media tell made up lies just like "Iraq has WMD" ?

• A fighter plane has been shot down over Benghazi. Although it was initially thought to belong to Gaddafi's forces, rebels in the city have said it was their only jet.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/mar/19/libya-live-blog-ceasefire-nofly

And so you knew the "coalition" is the real evil that behind the rebels who launch the war to kill Libya people.

Unarmed Canadians were shot by rubber bullets by cops during G20 in Toronto.

And they lived to tell about it.

How about Dudley George?

Edited March 21, 2011 by bjre

[wyly]

Unarmed with guns and airplane fighters?

the entire crisis started with unarmed street protests demanding a new government, no guns no airplanes...guns and airplanes were ghadaffi's escalation in an attempt to end street demonstrations...

Unarmed Canadians were shot by rubber bullets by cops during G20 in Toronto.

despite the over reaction by our police during the G20 the two events aren't related...I'm sure the protestors in Libya would gladly have traded our police rubber bullets for Ghadaffi's ak47's and jet fighters...

[GostHacked]

Unarmed with guns and airplane fighters?

How many civilians (rebels) are trained in operating a military fighter craft like a MIG? The MIG that was shot down was not operated by rebels.

[M.Dancer]

How many civilians (rebels) are trained in operating a military fighter craft like a MIG? The MIG that was shot down was not operated by rebels.

*cough*A rebel fighter jet has been seen bursting into flames and crashing after possibly being shot down over the rebel strongheld of Benghazi.

People can be heard cheering in the background of video footage which shows the plane, believed to be a Russian-built MIG-23, as it spirals to the ground in flames.

The pilot is seen ejecting from the plane moments before it crashes into buildings and bursts into a ball of fire.

At first it was thought this was victory over Gaddafi's forces, but rebels later confirmed it was their own warplane that was shot down.

*cough*

http://news.msn.co.nz/glanceview/154584/fighter-jet-shot-down-over-libya.glance

[GostHacked]

*cough*A rebel fighter jet has been seen bursting into flames and crashing after possibly being shot down over the rebel strongheld of Benghazi.

People can be heard cheering in the background of video footage which shows the plane, believed to be a Russian-built MIG-23, as it spirals to the ground in flames.

The pilot is seen ejecting from the plane moments before it crashes into buildings and bursts into a ball of fire.

At first it was thought this was victory over Gaddafi's forces, but rebels later confirmed it was their own warplane that was shot down.

*cough*

http://news.msn.co.nz/glanceview/154584/fighter-jet-shot-down-over-libya.glance

*cough* That does not answer my question. *cough*

[M.Dancer]

*cough* That does not answer my question. *cough*

Of course it does. You just aren't quick enough.

You asked gormlessly,

How many civilians (rebels) are trained in operating a military fighter craft like a MIG?

The answer is at least one.

[madmax]

the entire crisis started with unarmed street protests demanding a new government, no guns no airplanes...guns and airplanes were ghadaffi's escalation in an attempt to end street demonstrations...

No, the Rebels had been active for sometime. They were organized and felt this was the best time to move to take over the oil fields and press forward in hopes of a popular revolt. Some bit, and many many many more didn't.

Most of this is the work of France behind the scenes. And it may blow up in their face.

[madmax]

How many civilians (rebels) are trained in operating a military fighter craft like a MIG? The MIG that was shot down was not operated by rebels.

I see a slice of humble pie coming.