Keepitsimple Posted February 26, 2011 Report Posted February 26, 2011 Well, I figure he, more than any other (possibly even including Mr. Harper) sets the tone. He very much is a leader. Soooo... here's a top 10: http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/5054-qlittleq-jason-kenney-comes-to-vancouver.html but this one, more particularly, provides some insight into his character, and where he would choose to take us: http://network.nationalpost.com/NP/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2010/03/05/chris-selley-jason-kenney-s-sideshows.aspx Most of those left-wing rants - when put in the proper context - are precisely the reason why Kenney's popularity crosses party lines. He tells it like it is. Quote Back to Basics
Wild Bill Posted February 26, 2011 Report Posted February 26, 2011 I no longer recognize Harper as PM. HARPER LEAVE! So who cares? I don't think Harper will lose any sleep over losing your recognition. I think the BQ are a bunch of traitors but they're still there! Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Smallc Posted February 26, 2011 Report Posted February 26, 2011 So who cares? I don't think Harper will lose any sleep over losing your recognition. No kidding Quote
Saipan Posted February 26, 2011 Report Posted February 26, 2011 They said after Harper. No Liberal leader wanted for conservatives - even after the end of the world Quote
Scotty Posted February 26, 2011 Report Posted February 26, 2011 Well, I figure he, more than any other (possibly even including Mr. Harper) sets the tone. He very much is a leader. Soooo... here's a top 10: http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/5054-qlittleq-jason-kenney-comes-to-vancouver.html Reading this does nothing whatever to cause me to doubt Kennie. The site appears to be some sort of fringe group from the far, far left which believes there is no such thing as illegal immigration. but this one, more particularly, provides some insight into his character, and where he would choose to take us: http://network.nationalpost.com/NP/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2010/03/05/chris-selley-jason-kenney-s-sideshows.aspx In which a columnist alleges Kennie nixed some gay friendly material from the new citizenship guide. This doesn't cause me any particular concern either. Whether he did it himself or on orders from somewhere else no one should be under any suspicion a Conservative Party is going to worry overmuch about being friendly with a demographic group which is unalterably opposed to them anyway. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Jack Weber Posted February 26, 2011 Report Posted February 26, 2011 I no longer recognize Harper as PM. HARPER LEAVE! CANADA DOESN'T NEED DICTATORS! To me he is just some A-hole ruining Canada. "We do not accept your sham mental lucididty...Or your "social party"..." Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
August1991 Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) I cannot stand Haper and would love to have a new Conservative Party leader so I could vote for them, who would you like to see as their next leader? I gave lots of options.Under current circumstances, this poll is premature to say the least.I'm intrigued with something else. PoliSci Student, why do you say that you "cannot stand" Harper? I agree that some Canadians simply cannot stand the man but what's the source of this hatred? I have the impression that some people hate his style but Harper strikes me as a rather typical English Canadian. He's boring, straight-spoken, the son of an accountant. Do some English Canadians hate Harper because he reminds them of themselves? ----- BTW, I dislike Maxime Bernier on several levels but I voted for him in your poll. Having the son of Gilles Bernier, a true Beauce patriot, as PM of Canada would be too rich! Edited February 27, 2011 by August1991 Quote
ToadBrother Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 Under current circumstances, this poll is premature to say the least. I'm intrigued with something else. PoliSci Student, why do you say that you "cannot stand" Harper? I agree that some Canadians simply cannot stand the man but what's the source of this hatred? I have the impression that some people hate his style but Harper strikes me as a rather typical English Canadian. He's boring, straight-spoken, the son of an accountant. Do some English Canadians hate Harper because he reminds them of themselves? My purely anecdotal evidence (my inlaws and some coworkers) is that they hate him because they think that beneath the dull exterior is a guy somewhere between Adolf Hitler and David Duke lurking in there. There is a very genuine feeling, even if based on nothing at all, that Harper is the thing edge of a Reform wedge which will witness all manner of socially conservative legislation and policy. I don't buy it. I think Harper is first and foremost a political animal, and for people like this, ideology has but one purpose and that's to further the political game. He throws the Reformers the odd bone, but he's very clearly steered the Tories right down the middle. But right or wrong, a goodly many folks will view him of having a secret agenda. Quote
August1991 Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) Sorry for the thread hijack - but it was kind of a dumb thread to begin with. ...that Harper is the thin edge of a Reform wedge which will witness all manner of socially conservative legislation and policy.When you refer to a "Reform wedge", it is hard not to see that as a code word for "Western Canada". IOW, voters in Ontario are reticent to let people in Western Canada decide federal issues.IMV, Canadian politics are regional politics and we dress up/civilize our opinions when in fact they are rawly based on region. I think Harper is first and foremost a political animal... Everyone in politics at the level of Harper are political animals. IME, people in the Liberal Party first and foremost. And when I say "politics", I don't mean left/right policy questions. I mean the raw personal politics of teenage girls - combined with breathtaking ambition. Edited February 27, 2011 by August1991 Quote
ToadBrother Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 Sorry for the thread hijack - but it was kind of a dumb thread to begin with. Absolutely. It's idiotic to talk about the next Conservative leader when the current one seems pretty damn safe. When you refer to a "Reform wedge", it is hard not to see that as a code word for "Western Canada". IOW, voters in Ontario are reticent to let people in Western Canada decide federal issues. IMV, Canadian politics are regional politics and we dress up/civilize our opinions when in fact they are rawly based on region. No doubt about it. This is very much a regional issue. You might more properly phrase it as Ontario are reticent to let people in Alberta decide Federal issues. Quote
Jack Weber Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 Absolutely. It's idiotic to talk about the next Conservative leader when the current one seems pretty damn safe. No doubt about it. This is very much a regional issue. You might more properly phrase it as Ontario are reticent to let people in Alberta decide Federal issues. You better believe it!!! If Alberta does'nt like Ontario deciding things for them,it stands to reason we don't want to have Albertan/Prairie sanity/populism shoved down our throats....Well...Some of us... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
bloodyminded Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 When you refer to a "Reform wedge", it is hard not to see that as a code word for "Western Canada". IOW, voters in Ontario are reticent to let people in Western Canada decide federal issues. And when you refer to "Western Canada," it is hard not to see that as code for "Albertan conservatives." Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Jack Weber Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 And when you refer to "Western Canada," it is hard not to see that as code for "Albertan conservatives." I agree that might be a little specific,but it's essentially correct,in my estimation... The Reform movement comes out of Albertan Libertarianism and then spread through the rural areas of the Prairies... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
bloodyminded Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) I agree that might be a little specific,but it's essentially correct,in my estimation... The Reform movement comes out of Albertan Libertarianism and then spread through the rural areas of the Prairies... Fair enough, but I was actually directing my comment in a different direction. When people talk about "Western alienation" and how the "ROC" keeps screwing over "Western canadians," what they really mean is Albertans...and what they really mean is conservative Albertans. There's a lot more than economics involved in their complaints. There's also a Quebec-style self-absorption and arrogance at play, a sense of unarticulated cultural superiority. When one thinks that "the Rest of Canada" is the problem, then one does not especially care for Canada. And that's fine; if that's how they feel, then that's how they feel. But I think it would be nice for them to recognize the paradigm of their own complaints, and not dress it up as "we're always getting screwed over!" What's interesting is to hear the victimology of the same people who have no patience for it when it comes to minority groups generally (to say nothing of provinces that might have greater cause for complaint than they do). It's only true for themselves. It reminds me of Camille Paglia: she built an extra-academic career, as an "expert," mockingly telling us that blacks, women, Muslims, Jews, Natives--that they all need to "stop whining" and get a "sense of humour" and stop being so "sensitive"; until the program "The Sopranos" aired; at which point the Italian-American Paglia publically complained that the show was prejudiced against Italian-Americans, and displayed hurtful stereotypes. Hilarious. Edited February 27, 2011 by bloodyminded Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Jack Weber Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 Fair enough, but I was actually directing my comment in a different direction. When people talk about "Western alienation" and how the "ROC" keeps screwing over "Western canadians," what they really mean is Albertans...and what they really mean is conservative Albertans. There's a lot more than economics involved in their complaints. There's also a Quebec-style self-absorption and arrogance at play, a sense of unarticulated cultural superiority. When one thinks that "the Rest of Canada" is the problem, then one does not especially care for Canada. And that's fine; if that's how they feel, then that's how they feel. But I think it would be nice for them to recognize the paradigm of their own complaints, and not dress it up as "we're always getting screwed over!" What's interesting is to hear the victimology of the same people who have no patience for it when it comes to minority groups generally (to say nothing of provinces that might have greater cause for complaint than they do). It's only true for themselves. It reminds me of Camille Paglia: she built an extra-academic career, as an "expert," mockingly telling us that blacks, women, Muslims, Jews, Natives--that they all need to "stop whining" and get a "sense of humour" and stop being so "sensitive"; until the program "The Sopranos" aired; at which point the Italian-American Paglia publically complained that the show was prejudiced against Italian-Americans, and displayed hurtful stereotypes. Hilarious. I agree completely.. I have always heared that "The West wants in....The West wants in!!!!".. Fine,they've got what they want in a federal government...well,not a majority,but it's pretty close... And they still complain... I now take it as "the West wants...On it's own terms!!...And screw everyone else in this country if they don't like it!!!" This belies an immaturity and selfish,insular attitude that suggests that a segment of the populous out there simply does'nt want in at all... And for all it's chest thimping,that segment won't ever be happy...Much like the coterie of seperatists in Quebec who hold onto the idea that they should be there own country...And continuously play the victim role in the hopes that that MO will get them what they really want... For most of it's extistence,Alberta has been a have not province...It's only in the last 30 years,mainly because the oil that can be found there makes financial sense to be refined,that they can be a have province.. They never had any problem taking the money have provinces like Ontario gave them to keep them afloat..But when the time comes for them to assist the rest of the country,it's a huge burden for them... I have a hard time having alot of sympathy for their pleas of victimhood.... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Wild Bill Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) I agree completely.. I have always heared that "The West wants in....The West wants in!!!!".. Fine,they've got what they want in a federal government...well,not a majority,but it's pretty close... And they still complain... I now take it as "the West wants...On it's own terms!!...And screw everyone else in this country if they don't like it!!!" This belies an immaturity and selfish,insular attitude that suggests that a segment of the populous out there simply does'nt want in at all... And for all it's chest thimping,that segment won't ever be happy...Much like the coterie of seperatists in Quebec who hold onto the idea that they should be there own country...And continuously play the victim role in the hopes that that MO will get them what they really want... For most of it's extistence,Alberta has been a have not province...It's only in the last 30 years,mainly because the oil that can be found there makes financial sense to be refined,that they can be a have province.. They never had any problem taking the money have provinces like Ontario gave them to keep them afloat..But when the time comes for them to assist the rest of the country,it's a huge burden for them... I have a hard time having alot of sympathy for their pleas of victimhood.... You don't seem to understand Westerners at all, Jack! They DID have a problem "taking the money"! They had a strong work ethic and wanted a job, not "welfare". Their frustration came from continually seeing Ottawa changing the game every time they seemed to start creating real jobs so that they'd get knocked down again. After all, they weren't even allowed to grind their own damn grain! Ottawa set things up so that would be illegal! They had to ship it back East so that Ontario could make the profits. You may be quite right when you say "they will never be happy". If that's true, however, why should they stay in Canada? You remind me of a guy having problems with his wife. When she says she's unhappy you tell her "Suck it up!". Then, you're totally surprised and shocked one morning when you find that she's left you! It's the sad but honest truth that Alberta would do far better as part of the USA, or even alone, than it has for most of its history with Canada. Edited February 27, 2011 by Wild Bill Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
bloodyminded Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) You don't seem to understand Westerners at all, Jack! They DID have a problem "taking the money"! They had a strong work ethic and wanted a job, not "welfare". Their frustration came from continually seeing Ottawa changing the game every time they seemed to start creating real jobs so that they'd get knocked down again. After all, they weren't even allowed to grind their own damn grain! Ottawa set things up so that would be illegal! They had to ship it back East so that Ontario could make the profits. You may be quite right when you say "they will never be happy". If that's true, however, why should they stay in Canada? You remind me of a guy having problems with his wife. When she says she's unhappy you tell here "Suck it up!". Then, you're totally surprised and shocked one morning when you find that she's left you! It's the sad but honest truth that Alberta would do far better as part of the USA, or even alone, than it has for most of its history with Canada. Then by all means, they should take off and try their luck. Except that the majority of Albertans would never accept such a preposterous idea. The majority of Albertans are not throwing tantrums about some unique victimhood status. We shouldn't mistake the good people of Alberta for the self-righteous whiners who happen to be the noisiest. Edited February 27, 2011 by bloodyminded Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Molly Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 Reading this does nothing whatever to cause me to doubt Kennie. And from that I would also assume that you find nothing at all disturbing about the Oda incident. If he tells it like it is, then why is it so difficult for him (and other Conservatives) to actually lay claim to the political decisions they make? Are they ashamed of them? Do they realize that they ought to be? In any case, I didn't expect it to shake your devotion, just as your insistence that he 'tells it like it is' is a thing I find more laughable than convincing. Quote "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" — L. Frank Baum "For Conservatives, ministerial responsibility seems to be a temporary and constantly shifting phenomenon," -- Goodale
Molly Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 (edited) Reform is being miscast as the villain here. Reform, above ALL, respected process. While some Reformers were social conservatives, Reform was not. The social conservatives that would run roughshod over human rights and the institutions of governance- ignore the primacy of parliament, flout the rule of law, hide the truth and hide from fact- that's pure Conservative. And yes, sometimes 'Western Canada' is used as code meaning ;Alberta', but only by folks who don't know any better, and don't want to know any better. Good on ya, Bill. You get it. Edited February 27, 2011 by Molly Quote "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" — L. Frank Baum "For Conservatives, ministerial responsibility seems to be a temporary and constantly shifting phenomenon," -- Goodale
eyeball Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 Reform is being miscast as the villain here. Reform, above ALL, respected process. While some Reformers were social conservatives, Reform was not. The social conservatives that would run roughshod over human rights and the institutions of governance- ignore the primacy of parliament, flout the rule of law, hide the truth and hide from fact- that's pure Conservative. And yes, sometimes 'Western Canada' is used as code meaning ;Alberta', but only by folks who don't know any better, and don't want to know any better. Good on ya, Bill. You get it. Yes he does and speaking from the left coast, let me say I don't want no sneaky eastern bastard from Alberta jumping up and down on my back and telling me how to live my life either. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Molly Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 Yes he does and speaking from the left coast, let me say I don't want no sneaky eastern bastard from Alberta jumping up and down on my back and telling me how to live my life either. Quote "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" — L. Frank Baum "For Conservatives, ministerial responsibility seems to be a temporary and constantly shifting phenomenon," -- Goodale
Smallc Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 Good on ya, Bill. You get it. Except that it's wrong. The westerners who talk the way bill is referring to are a bunch of whiny babies. I live in the west, and I'm not a victim. This country has been good for every part of it. I'm not sure how one can look at the economic and political power growth that the west has had over the last 25 years and say that they're victims. They aren't, and if they ever were, they haven't been for a long time. Quote
eyeball Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 Except that it's wrong. The westerners who talk the way bill is referring to are a bunch of whiny babies. I live in the west, and I'm not a victim. This country has been good for every part of it. I'm not sure how one can look at the economic and political power growth that the west has had over the last 25 years and say that they're victims. They aren't, and if they ever were, they haven't been for a long time. You wouldn't say that if your livelihood depended on honest, transparent government and sound evidence-based management from Ottawa. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Molly Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 Yeah. My whiny-baby-ness was cured by moving to Ontario. Funny, but I haven't felt screwed over and robbed by my federal government to pay off someone else even once since I did that. Before then, though... whoo man! Between having my grain export interests regularly traded off to deflect legitimate criticism of eastern supply management, and the transportation surcharges to make sure the folks working the lakes and locks for good $ didn't go short (including the 'fixers' managing the Churchill line and port ensuring it's underutilization and disrepair), I sorta felt disrespected. Those things alone would have been resented, but probably wouldn't have added up to a full blown sense of alienation and victimization except for the many previous decades of that particular pattern of behaviour. Quote "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" — L. Frank Baum "For Conservatives, ministerial responsibility seems to be a temporary and constantly shifting phenomenon," -- Goodale
Scotty Posted February 27, 2011 Report Posted February 27, 2011 And from that I would also assume that you find nothing at all disturbing about the Oda incident. Not particularly. There wasn't anything particularly revealing about it other than she's not exactly quick on her feet, and not exactly a mental giant. I hadn't expected she was, from what I'd seen previously. She's there because she's a native from up north. There are similar types in every cabinet, there because of their geographic location and ethnic/gender needs. In any case, I didn't expect it to shake your devotion, just as your insistence that he 'tells it like it is' is a thing I find more laughable than convincing. I'm sorry, but we're you talking to me? I don't believe I've ever said anything about Kenney previously, positive or negative. Nor am I what anyone might call 'devoted' to either him or his party. Truth to tell I don't think all that much of the Conservative Party. It's just that I think so much less of the alternatives. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
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