Would the liberals win with LeBlanc as leader?

[Jack Weber]

I look forward to the day he decides to step up. Maybe this time, then again maybe not because this next leader will have a size large task of reformation to undertake. That could very well be his cup of tea, you never know. One thing to remember is that there will very likely be some large changes in the Liberal Party with any new leader.

Steve may well survive this next election, another minority government at best. If Trudeau is next then Harper will be toast, its that simple in my opinion.

I think you're right...

If Harper does'nt get a majority,the knives will be out for sure.If he wins a majority,and we get 4 to 5 years of him,he would most likely suffer the same fate as Pierre Trudeau did in the early '80's...In other words,people just got tired of him for many reasons...

I'm not sure Justin Trudeau is what Liberal Party membrs think he is...What scares me is that he's more like his looney tunes Mom than anything,but after a potential Harper majority,we'd be looking at a total of almost a decade of the Conservatives in power...

That's a long time for any man or party...

Edited February 21, 2011 by Jack Weber

[Evening Star]

Ok, can you please show me why you say that? I somehow can't make that conection with Harper, Layton or even Ignatieff (although he does come closest) in anything they've said or more importantly, in the case of Harper, done to indicate that... Regardless, it's just my opinion of him so no biggy...

BTW - What would be YOUR #1 issue for anyone, any party?

New Democrats believe in:

1. Balancing budgets and confining short-term deficits to severe economic downturns and national security emergencies

Read more: http://www.ndp.ca/vision/economy#ixzz1Edeh0auC

Pp 192-194 of Layton's Speaking Out also deal with balanced budgets: "Having served two decades on Toronto City Council, I've learned to live comfortably with balanced budgets. Every time you propose an idea, you have to identify a source of funding... When governments run deficits, they are essentially deferring the inevitable. Banks and investors benefit because they will collect the interest. That's why it's always better to pay as you go rather than to chalk up a shortfall." However, he does not prioritize paying down the debt above maintaining and expanding social and environmental programmes and investing in industrial strategy, although he does favour paying it down.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper understands the global financial crisis. His plan for the way forward has been clear and consistent: balanced budgets, lower taxes, investments to create jobs and keeping inflation low...

...We will keep our spending within our means. It is that simple.

(from http://www.conservative.ca/policy/plan/ )

Flaherty was forecasting a balanced budget in October: http://www.conservative.ca/press/other_stories/conservatives_help_keep_canada_on_track_to_a_balanced_budget

The Liberals brag about their record with balancing the budget, slam the Conservatives for failing in that area, and claim that they "would focus on deficit reduction" (among other things) here: http://www.liberal.ca/issues/economy/

I mean, would Justin T advocate balancing the budget and paying down the debt before helping unemployed people during a recession? If it meant unconscionable hospital wait times with an aging population during a rough year? There are times when a balanced budget should not be the #1 priority imo, although it's certainly a worthwhile goal much of the time.

My personal #1 (in general terms) would be promoting world-class education, research, creativity, and innovation within Canada.

Other issues that would be of high importance to me are:

- reducing wait times for health care and ensuring that we have a sustainable high-quality public system

- tackling the high rate of poverty

- environmental sustainability

- getting the hell out of Afghanistan

[GWiz]

I think Dominic LeBlanc would have made a great leader. He's french but not from Quebec, I think he would be able to appeal to Quebeckers but also some Westerners who may be turned off by another Quebec leader. He's young and would be able to connect with younger voters but he also has a lot of experience in politics. He's very smart and when he ran for the leadership he was able to attract supporters from both the Martin and Chretien camp. I cannot imagine there would be much the Conservatives could attack him with.

He's definitly one of my top picks for leader.

As for Justin Trudeau he needs work. I've seen him interviewed several times with other MPs, probably on Power Play, and he's come off as very ignorant. He cuts people off when they are making a point he doesn't agree with instead of waiting for them to finish speaking, it makes him look really bad. He has absolutly no experience either. Maybe in 10 years.

While LeBlanc wouldn't be a bad choice I still say Trudeau would be a better one...

LeBlanc, for the very reason you yourself state, can be tied, albeit only slightly, to Chretien, Martin, Dion, with 2 out of those 3 being seen as losers and the third, well Chretien is Chretien...

One of the biggest surprises and disapointments I've ever had supporting Liberals was the different Paul Martin PM to Paul Martin MP - Minister of Finance it was like two different people in EVERY aspect, from the way he spoke to the way he thought...

I hope LeBlanc isn't like that but I get the feeling that he's not really a Leader type compared to JT who definitely is...

I do have to admit I didn't hear LeBlanc speak when I had the chance so that may make my opinion less viable than it is regarding JT...

[Posc Student]

I like Justin Trudeau but I do not see what would make him a good leader. I also don't think he would do well in Western Canada.

[Jack Weber]

I like Justin Trudeau but I do not see what would make him a good leader. I also don't think he would do well in Western Canada.

No Liberal does well in Western Canada...Particularily in the land of the "Oil Pumpers"..

"IT'S THE NEP!!!!"

[Posc Student]

No Liberal does well in Western Canada...Particularily in the land of the "Oil Pumpers"..

"IT'S THE NEP!!!!"

Just because they haven't doesn't mean the can't.

Unless they can win seats in Western Canada they will never form a majority government again.

[GWiz]

Pp 192-194 of Layton's Speaking Out also deal with balanced budgets: "Having served two decades on Toronto City Council, I've learned to live comfortably with balanced budgets. Every time you propose an idea, you have to identify a source of funding... When governments run deficits, they are essentially deferring the inevitable. Banks and investors benefit because they will collect the interest. That's why it's always better to pay as you go rather than to chalk up a shortfall." However, he does not prioritize paying down the debt above maintaining and expanding social and environmental programmes and investing in industrial strategy, although he does favour paying it down.

(from http://www.conservative.ca/policy/plan/ )

Flaherty was forecasting a balanced budget in October: http://www.conservative.ca/press/other_stories/conservatives_help_keep_canada_on_track_to_a_balanced_budget

The Liberals brag about their record with balancing the budget, slam the Conservatives for failing in that area, and claim that they "would focus on deficit reduction" (among other things) here: http://www.liberal.ca/issues/economy/

I mean, would Justin T advocate balancing the budget and paying down the debt before helping unemployed people during a recession? If it meant unconscionable hospital wait times with an aging population during a rough year? There are times when a balanced budget should not be the #1 priority imo, although it's certainly a worthwhile goal much of the time.

My personal #1 (in general terms) would be promoting world-class education, research, creativity, and innovation within Canada.

Other issues that would be of high importance to me are:

- reducing wait times for health care and ensuring that we have a sustainable high-quality public system

- tackling the high rate of poverty

- environmental sustainability

- getting the hell out of Afghanistan

Fair ball, but in truth all you've shown me is that it's part of the rhetoric in everyone's platform...

It's my bad for stating it as JT's #1 issue, what he actually said to me when I asked him about that issue was, "it's definitely one of the top priorties we as Liberals will have to face when we become the Government again after the next election"...

His speech was more about what Liberals across the country had to do in meeting the needs and aspirations of Canadians across the country by getting the "Liberal Brand" to mean what it once did when his father was PM...

[Jack Weber]

Fair ball, but in truth all you've shown me is that it's part of the rhetoric in everyone's platform...

It's my bad for stating it as JT's #1 issue, what he actually said to me when I asked him about that issue was, "it's definitely one of the top priorties we as Liberals will have to face when we become the Government again after the next election"...

His speech was more about what Liberals across the country had to do in meeting the needs and aspirations of Canadians across the country by getting the "Liberal Brand" to mean what it once did when his father was PM...

If that's the case,the "Albertan Firewallers" are going to lose it!!!!!

[Evening Star]

Fair ball, but in truth all you've shown me is that it's part of the rhetoric in everyone's platform...

That's all I was trying to show: Rhetoric about balanced budgets doesn't in itself really distinguish JT.

[GWiz]

No Liberal does well in Western Canada...Particularily in the land of the "Oil Pumpers"..

"IT'S THE NEP!!!!"

psst, I liked the NEP, I'm Canadian, it's MY oil too, just as Manitoba's, or Quebec's, Hydro power belongs to ALL Canadians...

Maybe not equally, a province should have some added benefit from natural OR economic resources like Ontario, just not ALL the benefits our diverse and great country has to offer with just some tax dollars as the rest of the country's only benefit...

I'm a CANADA FIRSTer at home AND abroad... Whodda thunk it, eh...

[August1991]

Would someone else be a better leader of the liberal party?

I have no real opinion formed on this - however - perhaps others here have an opinion (and kindly don't lie even if it means turning from your conservative party of canada instincts.)

The problem, WA, with this thread and approach is that it reflects the mistaken Liberal belief that a "magic pill" will bring them back to power. Liberals are wrong to think that if only they had a better leader, then all would be fine and they would once again be the Natural Governing Party.

Liberals are latter day Catholics in thrall to the return of a Trudeau Messiah.

The federal Liberal Party has many problems starting with the fact that its seats largely come from Toronto, English Montreal and the Maritimes - and this base is shrinking.

Angelo Persichilli said this about Liberal MPs:

The MPs, ignored in Ottawa, have concentrated on their ridings and become, for the most part, immigration consultants with no political clout. Because of this abnormal situation, the city of Toronto has no political representation in the federal cabinet.

Liberal MPs run their ridings like McDonald’s franchises: each with the same brand but independently owned and not open to new blood. This has killed the primary life source for any political organization — fresh ideas from new faces, the grassroots.

Many ridings are no longer true Liberal ridings, they simply “belong” to the MPs who have represented them for years. This has been good for Liberal leaders because the seats were won regardless of the leader. But when those MPs leave, the ridings are up for grabs, as recently was the case in Vaughan.

Toronto Star Edited February 22, 2011 by August1991

[GWiz]

The problem, WA, with this thread and approach is that it reflects the mistaken Liberal belief that a "magic pill" will bring them back to power. Liberals are wrong to think that if only they had a better leader, then all would be fine and they would once again be the Natural Governing Party.

Liberals are latter day Catholics in thrall to the return of a Trudeau Messiah.

The federal Liberal Party has many problems starting with the fact that its seats largely come from Toronto, English Montreal and the Maritimes - and this base is shrinking.

Angelo Persichilli said this about Liberal MPs:Toronto Star

Yeah, it ain't simple by any means...

The best of bad choices is still a bad choice and still the best choice... - GWiz

[Wild Bill]

psst, I liked the NEP, I'm Canadian, it's MY oil too, just as Manitoba's, or Quebec's, Hydro power belongs to ALL Canadians...

Maybe not equally, a province should have some added benefit from natural OR economic resources like Ontario, just not ALL the benefits our diverse and great country has to offer with just some tax dollars as the rest of the country's only benefit...

I'm a CANADA FIRSTer at home AND abroad... Whodda thunk it, eh...

The NEP was about more than just sharing a resource with all of Canada. The Liberals at the time were perfectly willing to buy Libyan and Venezuelan oil at world price. Their deal was for Alberta to let the FEDS sell their oil at world prices, give Alberta a ridiculously low domestic price and then pocket all the difference!

You might also want to ask some Newfoundlanders what they think about Quebec and the Churchill Falls hydro power deal!

Somehow, "it belongs to ALL Canadians" always turns out to be code for "If we set it up so that Central Canada gets a sweetheart deal we'll buy lots of votes from the provinces with all the seats! WHO CARES if it screws the little guys? We can afford to lose those few seats!"

Keep up that kind of talk and the Liberals will be persona non grata in Alberta for another 35 years!

[August1991]

I'm a CANADA FIRSTer at home AND abroad... Whodda thunk it, eh...

GWiz, when you use the term "Canada" in this way, you really just mean "Ontario".

Canada can only exist as a federal state.

[Wild Bill]

Especially the "Oil Pumpers"!!!

Every single one of them mindlessly,and reflexively, blurts out...

"THE NEP...THE NEP!!!!!!!"

Every time the name is mentioned...

You're right, Jack! They DO!

Of course, this has condemned the Liberals to be a regional party for generations. After you get a few chuckles out of watching their heads explode, do you think it might actually be good for the country to find a way for them to get some confidence in the system back?

When you lose your job and your house because some politician wanted to grab more votes in Eastern Canada you can't really blame them for being pissed for a LOOONG time!

[GWiz]

The NEP was about more than just sharing a resource with all of Canada. The Liberals at the time were perfectly willing to buy Libyan and Venezuelan oil at world price. Their deal was for Alberta to let the FEDS sell their oil at world prices, give Alberta a ridiculously low domestic price and then pocket all the difference!

You might also want to ask some Newfoundlanders what they think about Quebec and the Churchill Falls hydro power deal!

Somehow, "it belongs to ALL Canadians" always turns out to be code for "If we set it up so that Central Canada gets a sweetheart deal we'll buy lots of votes from the provinces with all the seats! WHO CARES if it screws the little guys? We can afford to lose those few seats!"

Keep up that kind of talk and the Liberals will be persona non grata in Alberta for another 35 years!

Two things my friend...

1. I'm not running for office...

2. It's my personal opinion about what's BEST for Canada and Canadians and in turn actually what's best for ALL the provinces and Territories within Canada...

The have, have not, province thing is bad for all provinces because a "have" province like Alberta ends up financing the deficit of a so called "have not" province like Manitoba (Prov. NDP's fault ) that's a lose - lose proposition that can be turned into a win - win...

I know it's not that simple to do but it is doable to everyone's benefit...

But, as I said, I'm not running for office, so it's just my ideas which may end up in a book someday...

BTW - "Towards a just society" by PET is a hell of a good read if anybody cares...

[Jack Weber]

psst, I liked the NEP, I'm Canadian, it's MY oil too, just as Manitoba's, or Quebec's, Hydro power belongs to ALL Canadians...

Maybe not equally, a province should have some added benefit from natural OR economic resources like Ontario, just not ALL the benefits our diverse and great country has to offer with just some tax dollars as the rest of the country's only benefit...

I'm a CANADA FIRSTer at home AND abroad... Whodda thunk it, eh...

Well said....

The oil pumping libertarian types simply do not understand that concept...

[Wild Bill]

The problem, WA, with this thread and approach is that it reflects the mistaken Liberal belief that a "magic pill" will bring them back to power. Liberals are wrong to think that if only they had a better leader, then all would be fine and they would once again be the Natural Governing Party.

Liberals are latter day Catholics in thrall to the return of a Trudeau Messiah.

The federal Liberal Party has many problems starting with the fact that its seats largely come from Toronto, English Montreal and the Maritimes - and this base is shrinking.

Angelo Persichilli said this about Liberal MPs:Toronto Star

You're absolutely right, August! Liberals seem to be more of a church than a party. They keep looking for some Messiah to lead them back to glory!

They no longer talk about ideas. It's all about how they CARE more than the other guys, they're more CANADIAN than the other guys, they FEEL more for the average Joe than the other guys and so on.

Meanwhile, they just keep making ad hominem attacks on their opponent, as in "Harper doesn't CARE about the little guys! He doesn't FEEL what the average Joe feels!"

It's all sizzle and no steak. Even when they pick intellectuals for leaders like Dion and now Ignatieff, we really don't see practical and positive ideas. Rather, we are sold the idea that their leader is so smart that he will just figure out whatever is necessary. No need to actually hear his ideas, just trust that he will have them and they will be good ones!

They ARE rapidly becoming the party of just a few (albeit large) urban areas! Take away the GTA, Ottawa and Montreal and they have little or nothing else to count on.

This is really a shame! They owe it to Canadians to actually get off their collective asses and become a true government-in-waiting. Harper is far from our best choice but the Liberals just keep abdicating any role as a better one!

If I were a Liberal right now, my biggest fear would be that the NDP would get out of the 1960's and become a modern party like the Labour Party in Britain. If they just got a bit more practical and stopped scaring away business and only soliciting support from unions and fringe-issue groups they could conceivably steal away huge blocks of Liberal supporters! The Liberal Party could become the tattered rump it became in Britain!

[GWiz]

You're absolutely right, August! Liberals seem to be more of a church than a party. They keep looking for some Messiah to lead them back to glory!

They no longer talk about ideas. It's all about how they CARE more than the other guys, they're more CANADIAN than the other guys, they FEEL more for the average Joe than the other guys and so on.

Meanwhile, they just keep making ad hominem attacks on their opponent, as in "Harper doesn't CARE about the little guys! He doesn't FEEL what the average Joe feels!"

It's all sizzle and no steak. Even when they pick intellectuals for leaders like Dion and now Ignatieff, we really don't see practical and positive ideas. Rather, we are sold the idea that their leader is so smart that he will just figure out whatever is necessary. No need to actually hear his ideas, just trust that he will have them and they will be good ones!

They ARE rapidly becoming the party of just a few (albeit large) urban areas! Take away the GTA, Ottawa and Montreal and they have little or nothing else to count on.

This is really a shame! They owe it to Canadians to actually get off their collective asses and become a true government-in-waiting. Harper is far from our best choice but the Liberals just keep abdicating any role as a better one!

If I were a Liberal right now, my biggest fear would be that the NDP would get out of the 1960's and become a modern party like the Labour Party in Britain. If they just got a bit more practical and stopped scaring away business and only soliciting support from unions and fringe-issue groups they could conceivably steal away huge blocks of Liberal supporters! The Liberal Party could become the tattered rump it became in Britain!

Awww Bill, you almost had me fooled into believing you were a "closet Liberal" that was only waiting for the right reason to rejoin "the Big Red Tent"...

But, nay, you are after all exactly what you seem to be, a common CON fomenting a battle between the "dangerous" to CON aspirations Liberals and the non threating NDP but good surrogates in attacking Liberals to achieve the desired wins in weak non CON ridings especially in Ontario...

For shame my friend for shame... The "Trojan Horse" approach to elections is the stuff of the NDP and unbecoming to even the worst of CONS...

Much as you seem to want to deny it there is little difference between Diefenbaker, Moroney, and Harper, all bent on selling out Canada to foreign interests, and in particular US interests...

With harper this is becoming more obvious almost daily...

If Canadians aren't astute and careful we will become the 51st state before we even know it...

[Keepitsimple]

A telling thread......NO votes for Ignatieff and no real supporting posts. Even our diehard Liberal posters can't stomach saying they think he's a good choice. That's the hidden secret in polls that underestimate Conservative support come election time......many Liberal voters will again stay home because there is no compelling reason for them to come out and vote for Ignatieff. "Anybody but Harper" just doesn't work because he's been in power for 5 years - through huge Global turmoil - and we're still plodding along quite nicely.

[Mr.Canada]

The Liberals need to rebuild from the ground up, blow up the party completely. So far it doesn't seem like they're ready to do this.

I personally like John Macallum. I wouldn't be surprised if he became leader of the Liberals someday. He would pull the party slightly to the right, where they need to be if they're going to win an election someday.

Right now the Tories are controlling the right, centre-right and even some of the centre vote. While todays Liberals are fighting with the NDP over the left and centre left vote ignoring the rest.

Edited February 22, 2011 by Mr.Canada

[GWiz]

A telling thread......NO votes for Ignatieff and no real supporting posts. Even our diehard Liberal posters can't stomach saying they think he's a good choice. That's the hidden secret in polls that underestimate Conservative support come election time......many Liberal voters will again stay home because there is no compelling reason for them to come out and vote for Ignatieff. "Anybody but Harper" just doesn't work because he's been in power for 5 years - through huge Global turmoil - and we're still plodding along quite nicely.

We are? Really? This is the BEST Canada can do - plod along quite nicely? This is what a Harper Government has to offer?

No thanks, I for one think Canada can do a whole lot better than that, even with Ignatieff at the helm, AND he might become a "politician" which seems for some people a prefered choice over someone who wants what's best for Canada and has the smarts to get it done...

As I said, we'll see in the next election, whenever it comes about...

[Smallc]

No thanks, I for one think Canada can do a whole lot better than that, even with Ignatieff at the helm,

I don't. Ignatieff is incompetent. He has driven me to cut up my red card. I will never again be part of the Liberal Party of Canada, as they continue to support this incompetent leader. Like or not, the Harper Conservatives are the only game in town right now. The Liberals are an embarrassment, and the NDP is....the NDP (and I have and will again vote NDP provincially in Manitoba). The Conservatives will probably get a majority in the election that's coming up, and you know what? They deserve. Not because of anything that they've done (there are some constitutional and parliamentary abuses that I have) but because the other guys aren't even an option.

All that said, the Conservatives, as managers, are really quite good. The deficit isn't very big as a percentage of GDP and is shrinking. The economy really picked up after the recession, and it appears to be picking up again after a slump. There's no reason for a change right now, and even if there was, there isn't an alternative.

[Mr.Canada]

We are? Really? This is the BEST Canada can do - plod along quite nicely? This is what a Harper Government has to offer?

No thanks, I for one think Canada can do a whole lot better than that, even with Ignatieff at the helm, AND he might become a "politician" which seems for some people a prefered choice over someone who wants what's best for Canada and has the smarts to get it done...

As I said, we'll see in the next election, whenever it comes about...

The Liberals and the NDp want to raise corporate taxes, they always do. If they had done that in the economic crisis business would've picked up and left Canada. Plain and simple.

Plus all of Ignatieffs pie in the sky spending promises...the deficit would have been a lot bigger under a Liberal government. Remember he keeps telling us that Harper isn't doing enough. That always means one thing. Ignatieff doesn't think that Harper is spending enough money. Where would Ignatieff get more money? By raising our taxes of coarse.

No thank you.

[Posc Student]

All the leaders suck!