The Nature of Evil

betsy · February 19, 2011

To feminists, it's about the "power."

For pro-choice advocates, your fight for what you think justify the murder of a baby boils down to......... NINE MONTHS!

At least Hitler's justification of his evil was way more than that!

Edited February 19, 2011 by betsy

cybercoma · February 19, 2011

To feminists, it's about the "power."

You're right. It is about power. It's about every person having power over their own life and liberty. Forcing anti-abortion laws on mothers does not give them liberty over themselves, their own health or their own bodies. It's about giving power to the state over the bodies of law-abiding citizens. Abortion is an extremely personal decision and the state has no right to force a woman to decide in any particular way. The vast majority of doctors and clinics will not perform abortions when a owoman is close to term. The discussion about abortion is not about killing a child that's otherwise able to survive outside the mother. This is why the rules are more restrictive the closer to term a woman gets. At that point, the discussion rightfully ought to turn towards adoption.

It truly comes down to choice. No one ought to be able to tell a woman what she can and cannot do with her own body. By refusing safe abortions to people, you're attempting to take choice out of their hands. They're going to make the choice anyway and this is when people are driven to unsafe, unprotected situations where they die without proper care. Prostitution is illegal, but it too is a choice over one's own body that people will continue to make and be, just like illegal abortions, put into unsafe, unprotected situations where they end up dying without proper care. The only thing the government does by making these things illegal is push people into unsafe situations, rather than living up to its responsibility of protecting us.

bush_cheney2004 · February 19, 2011

.... The only thing the government does by making these things illegal is push people into unsafe situations, rather than living up to its responsibility of protecting us.

Ah...but this is a choice as well. It's great to have choices, including the choice of doctors to just say no.

pinko · February 19, 2011

"including the choice of doctors to just say no."

Yes and that is done by a doctor not seeking hospital privileges if the doctor doesn't wish to exercize his/her specialist skills.

bush_cheney2004 · February 19, 2011

Yes and that is done by a doctor not seeking hospital privileges if the doctor doesn't wish to exercize his/her specialist skills.

Not in a private hospital. Commie abortion rights stop at the rights of a doctor and his/her labor and skills.

cybercoma · February 19, 2011

Ah...but this is a choice as well. It's great to have choices, including the choice of doctors to just say no.

That's why there's Morgentaler clinics where these can be performed as well. No one's forcing doctors to do them, but making it illegal forces everyone not to be able to have the choice. Moreover, a doctor that refuses to care for the life and security of his/her patient, the mother in this case, ought to face disciplinary measures.

bush_cheney2004 · February 19, 2011

That's why there's Morgentaler clinics where these can be performed as well. No one's forcing doctors to do them, but making it illegal forces everyone not to be able to have the choice. Moreover, a doctor that refuses to care for the life and security of his/her patient, the mother in this case, ought to face disciplinary measures.

Killing so many unborn is not about security...it is about convenience and economics!

cybercoma · February 19, 2011

Killing so many unborn is not about security...it is about convenience and economics!

Whatever makes you sleep better at night. Just keep in mind that economics is about security.

bush_cheney2004 · February 19, 2011

Whatever makes you sleep better at night. Just keep in mind that economics is about security.

Then all is well....millions of babies die for economics! Salute!

cybercoma · February 19, 2011

Then all is well....millions of babies die for economics! Salute!

Yup. That's what I said. :rolleyes:

WIP · February 19, 2011

The evil continues...

http://www.abortiontv.com/Methods/GeorgeTiller.htm

You are totally disgusting for smearing the name of a doctor who saved the lives of many women with late-term dangerous pregnancies by posting shit like this! These anti-abortion crusaders that fomented this smear campaign that Dr. Tiller was a murderer for performing late term abortions along with the media agitators like Bill O'Reilly who publicized the campaign, are the ones with blood on their hands...not Dr. Tiller!

These people you support, and yourself as well, depending on what if any active role you play in this fascist movement, are accessories to murder of doctors, nurses, and clinic volunteers who have been killed by crackpots on the fringe of this movement, who don't just go home after the anti-abortion demonstrations and rallies, but stalk abortion clinic staff and staff of organizations like Planned Parenthood, that are primarily dedicated to offering birth control information. The murderer of Dr. Tiller was inspired by people like you who throw the murder charge around carelessly, and you are just as complicit as the rightwing clowns who fomented the state of paranoia down in Arizona that led to the shooting of Congresswoman Giffords and the murder of six people at the event. All of the right wing clowns who fomented the hysteria over crackpot interpretations of language, currency and constitution issues inspired the Tucson Shooter to carry out his crime. Likewise the most egregious, foul members of this so called pro-life movement like Randall Terry, have had several members of their organizations and even inner circles run off to kill, or attempt to kill abortion providers. Then, afterwards, Terry and similar scum wash their hands of the affair and declare that it had nothing to do with them!

You wave your religion around and make stupid arguments about life, and declare yourself to be something above us atheists, who for whatever reasons, got fed up with being told that mythology has to be taken as fact. The fact that you can make no distinction between Dr. Tiller, and the murderer of Dr. Tiller is all the evidence I need to know that declaring embryos and fetuses to be equal to conscious human life, is a philosophy that devalues and degrades ALL human life!

cybercoma · February 19, 2011

You are totally disgusting for smearing the name of a doctor who saved the lives of many women with late-term dangerous pregnancies by posting shit like this! These anti-abortion crusaders that fomented this smear campaign that Dr. Tiller was a murderer for performing late term abortions along with the media agitators like Bill O'Reilly who publicized the campaign, are the ones with blood on their hands...not Dr. Tiller!

These people you support, and yourself as well, depending on what if any active role you play in this fascist movement, are accessories to murder of doctors, nurses, and clinic volunteers who have been killed by crackpots on the fringe of this movement, who don't just go home after the anti-abortion demonstrations and rallies, but stalk abortion clinic staff and staff of organizations like Planned Parenthood, that are primarily dedicated to offering birth control information. The murderer of Dr. Tiller was inspired by people like you who throw the murder charge around carelessly, and you are just as complicit as the rightwing clowns who fomented the state of paranoia down in Arizona that led to the shooting of Congresswoman Giffords and the murder of six people at the event. All of the right wing clowns who fomented the hysteria over crackpot interpretations of language, currency and constitution issues inspired the Tucson Shooter to carry out his crime. Likewise the most egregious, foul members of this so called pro-life movement like Randall Terry, have had several members of their organizations and even inner circles run off to kill, or attempt to kill abortion providers. Then, afterwards, Terry and similar scum wash their hands of the affair and declare that it had nothing to do with them!

You wave your religion around and make stupid arguments about life, and declare yourself to be something above us atheists, who for whatever reasons, got fed up with being told that mythology has to be taken as fact. The fact that you can make no distinction between Dr. Tiller, and the murderer of Dr. Tiller is all the evidence I need to know that declaring embryos and fetuses to be equal to conscious human life, is a philosophy that devalues and degrades ALL human life!

Great post! It pains me to know that it will have absolutely no effect on the intended audience.

bush_cheney2004 · February 19, 2011

Yup. That's what I said.

Indirectly...the more complete story includes contraception, social change, labor law, etc. Surgical abortions were technically viable long before this.

Edited February 19, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

Jack Weber · February 19, 2011

If no one used the term "pro-life," then I might agree.

But maybe not. The key issue isn't usually some liking for abortion, but rather the notion of a woman's right to choose.

Well,I disagree with that semantic game your playing,including the "Right to Life" stuff...

One is either for legalized abortion,or they are'nt...

Passive 10 dollar euphemisms simply cloud the issue....

bloodyminded · February 19, 2011

Well,I disagree with that semantic game your playing,including the "Right to Life" stuff...

One is either for legalized abortion,or they are'nt...

Passive 10 dollar euphemisms simply cloud the issue....

And yet you seem uneasy about offering the same advice (which is precisely the same, by the way) to self-decribed "pro-lifers." How is your omission on this not effectively a "semantic game"?

Jack Weber · February 19, 2011

And yet you seem uneasy about offering the same advice (which is precisely the same, by the way) to self-decribed "pro-lifers." How is your omission on this not effectively a "semantic game"?

Incorrect...

See my previous post...

Pro-Life/Pro-Choice are unnecessary euphemisms that are there to provide a sales pitch...

One is either pro abortion or anti abortion...

Passivity on the issue is unnecessary...

cybercoma · February 19, 2011

They are necessary.

I would assume that just about everyone (even the "pro-lifers") is ok with abortions in the case where a woman and possibly the child will die during birth or it will have an adverse and permanent effect on the health of the mother.

Now you get into who has the right to decide when the mother's "life" and health is at risk. The government tried deciding for women through their Abortion Committees (s. 251 of the CC at the time). The SCC determined that Abortion Committees were in violation of section 7 of the Charter.

The best person to decide whether the life and health of the mother is at risk is the mother herself. The government does not have the right to infringe upon the privacy of the body or the psychological integrity of the mother by requiring "Abortion Committees" to decide for her.

In this way, pro-life and pro-choice are not necessarily euphemisms/dysphemisms. Those that are pro-choice are NOT necessarily pro-abortion. They may be personally opposed to abortion themselves. They may never have an abortion themselves (if they are women). However, they realize that the choice is not there's or the government's to make. Thus, they are in favour of a woman having security over her own body and physical/psychological well-being.

WIP · February 19, 2011

Great post! It pains me to know that it will have absolutely no effect on the intended audience.

I know you're right, but maybe others who are leaning in this direction might sit up and take notice....or at least read something on abortion/birth control that doesn't come from one of these propaganda sites! There's not much you can do to persuade the great army of authoritarian followers who want a simple world with simple answers, and reinforce their simple-minded beliefs by reading only the filtered propaganda from websites that are intended to reinforce those beliefs.

I've read recently that many women who work at Planned Parenthood clinics in the U.S. are facing hostility and death threats just because they educate about birth control and make arrangements for women who are seeking abortions. This sort of intimidation would not be possible without that army of simpleminded religious authoritarians.....and it's sad to see so many women in these movements who are willing to trade away any future rights they will have over when and how many children to have in the future. Right now, a lot of them feel secure in waving the placards and taking their place in the anti-abortion demonstrations because they know that if they close down the local clinic, there's always another one a few miles away....but what about when they're all gone....I doubt most of them have thought that far ahead.

pinko · February 19, 2011

Not in a private hospital. Commie abortion rights stop at the rights of a doctor and his/her labor and skills.

There are no private hospitals here, chump.

bush_cheney2004 · February 19, 2011

There are no private hospitals here, chump.

Wrong, chimp:

The Cambie Surgery Centre is the most modern and only free standing private hospital of its type in Canada. Located in beautiful Vancouver British Columbia, the Cambie Surgery Centre is a multi-specialty surgical facility specializing in arthroscopic surgery. The centre allows patients rapid access to world class Canadian health care expertise, and offers doctors and nurses the ability to work in a facility equipped to standards that equal or exceed those in major hospitals.

http://www.csc-surgery.com/

Edited February 19, 2011 by bush_cheney2004

pinko · February 19, 2011

Wrong, chimp:

The Cambie Surgery Centre is the most modern and only free standing private hospital of its type in Canada. Located in beautiful Vancouver British Columbia, the Cambie Surgery Centre is a multi-specialty surgical facility specializing in arthroscopic surgery. The centre allows patients rapid access to world class Canadian health care expertise, and offers doctors and nurses the ability to work in a facility equipped to standards that equal or exceed those in major hospitals.

http://www.csc-surgery.com/

I don't live in B.C., chump.

cybercoma · February 19, 2011

Not to split hairs here, but most Canadian healthcare is privately delivered and publicly funded.

pinko · February 19, 2011

Not to split hairs here, but most Canadian healthcare is privately delivered and publicly funded.

Correct. bush/cheney has identified the only private hospital in Canada and that is in British Columbia.

cybercoma · February 19, 2011

Correct. bush/cheney has identified the only private hospital in Canada and that is in British Columbia.

I guess what I'm saying is that many hospitals in Canada are private, even if they are non-profits. However, they get public funding to deliver services. As a condition to that public funding, they must meet particular regulations set out by the government(s). Any doctor in Canada can be private as well, but they can't be funded both ways. If they decide to have a private practice, they cannot bill the provincial medicare programs. It's splitting hairs, in a way, because when we casually discuss "private" healthcare, we typically mean American style private delivery with private funding. Our system contrasts too with the British system where the hospitals and doctors are public employees and are funded publicly. As with just about everything else Canadian, we fall somewhere between Britain and the United States.