God vs Science

[waldo]

You said, had the little girl approached you, you would've slapped her in the face! There was only a few of us who found your answer so appalling. My outraged reaction was not because you wanted to slap a little girl for saying "Jesus loves you."

My outraged reaction was because you wanted to slap a little girl for saying something so innocent....she could just as easily be selling cookies to you!

I remember your statement of wanting to physically hurt the girl...irrational statement (of a violent nature at that) is not that easy to forget.

It was surreal. It's like watching Clockwork Orange....the way you took that in and reacted!

it was an easy search... perhaps your recall references another MLW member or youtube commentators.

I agree that expressing a desire to slap or punch a little girl is somehwat pathetic. I assume that they are exaggerating, to express their dislike of proselytizing.

If an adult came up to me and told me that if I didn't put on a burqa I would go to hell, there'd be harsh words, and maybe punches. If an adult came up to me and was more polite about it, I'd probably be more polite about it, but the message would be about the same: mind your own business. If they sent a little kid to do their dirty work, I guess I'd try to spare the kid's feelings.

[betsy]

it was an easy search... perhaps your recall references another MLW member or youtube commentators.

Was it under title "Jesus Camp?" I tried a search but it came back to say it's over the 200-something. Thank you for the post, Waldo.

Btw, can you post the access link to it please? I remember it was a very heated debate.

Kimmy:

I agree that expressing a desire to slap or punch a little girl is somehwat pathetic. I assume that they are exaggerating, to express their dislike of proselytizing.

I think any sensible person here, especially a parent, would understand my outrage. What was happening to that little girl then was what we call CYBER BULLYING now.

I cannot...cannot just sit by and "discuss" the issue without doing anything while that girl was being bullied before my eyes. That link to you-tube was there. I wanted to let the girl and her parents know that they were not alone, and someone else is saying that what was being done to the girl was just plainly wrong.

If I mistook you for someone else in that argument....then I apologise.

But that does not necessarily mean you're off the hook.

I assume that they are exaggerating, to express their dislike of proselytizing

It doesn't matter whether your assumption is correct or not. Whether you think it might have been an exaggeration on their part is not the issue. A little girl was still being bullied online!

For what? For running around and saying...."Jesus loves you." So a gang mentality....mob mentality...a collective bashing by a couple or more of them, posting what they'd love to do to her.

Just because her belief contradicts their own. That made it worse.

It was also BIGOTRY! In this case, bigotry based on religious belief.

Supposed-adults cannot even control themselves to ignore a little girl.

Why can't they just leave her....move along, walk away....just as you adviced on your first post in Creation - an advice you didn't apply to yourself btw.

That was in 2006. Now in 2011.....it's already been acknowledged that bullying - especially cyber bullying - is a problem.

Actually it is surprising that you bring that issue up....and FAULT ME - ME!- for my reaction to that bullying.

Kimmy

My favorite one was the thread with the clip from the movie Jesus Camp where you didn't just go berserk on members of this forum, but also signed up for a YouTube account so that you could fight with people who posted comments about the clip there as well.

Obviously you went back to you-tube and continued reading the responses there....that's why you knew I posted an outraged reply. It was a stinging reply but nothing quite like irrational comments such as

"I hate you!" or "I feel contempt for you!"

And if memory serves me right, I only made one post.

I did not keep going back. I said my piece and I conveyed my support to the girl and her parents.

I did not continue to poke at those bullies....nor did I stalk....and harrass them.

It might've served as a perversed kind of entertainment for some though, to follow a thread that was nothing more than a gang-bang on a little Christian girl online. In that case, what a truly pathetic society we've become.

Did you post anything to rebuke the bullies' behaviour in any way?

You criticized me for taking an account on you-tube just so I could respond to those bullies. Just because of the way you worded your statement regarding that issue, and the way you interpreted my reaction,

..so that you could fight with people who posted comments about the clip there as well.

....I cannot help but ask, were you one of those who posted their hatred and venom?

Were you really against it or were you actually part of it?

Edited February 13, 2011 by betsy

[pinko]

Betsy:

Would you please stick to the topic. The last question raised in your most recent post has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

[betsy]

Betsy:

Would you please stick to the topic. The last question raised in your most recent post has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Of course it's still very much on topic! Kindly review what this whole topic is all about. Anyway, that's actually been put to rest.

This touched on a past issue - brought forward by Kimmy - but along the same point.

Edited February 13, 2011 by betsy

[cybercoma]

The girl running around telling people that Jesus loves them and asking them if they've accepted Jesus as their personal saviour, that's not religious bullying or anything though.

[betsy]

Just so to point out what the comments on you-tube were all about:

Jesus Camp

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=7231&view=&hl=&fromsearch=1

Betsy:

I had criticized the reactions on Rachel in my post #21, but so far no one had bothered to say anything about them.

These are some of the comments and reactions towards the little girl:

"Jesus wants to love on you. How fun. I have trained my kids to punch kids in the mouth if they attemp to hand them any religious literature or preach them in any form. If it is an adult, then my kids will kick them in the shins."

"if this little girl approached me while I was bowling, I would slap the snot out of her. LOL! Not really, I would have accepted her literature and then wiped my poopy butt with it in the bowling alley bathroom."

"If i had been waiting for my turn to bowl and some religious lil' freak kid came up to me saying that shit i'd tell her to [censored] off!. Actually i'd just say thanks and take the leaflet..."

"I'm gonna teach my kids to only punch kids who hand out Jesus tracts and say things like, "God wants to love on you"

"I would have looked her in the eye so that she was really looking at me and said, "There is not God. There is no Santa Clause. There is no Heaven. Here's $10 to use in the arcade. Go kill something."

"If she walked up to me, I would grab the leaflets and make her choke on it."

"fuck that shit i burned a bible some guy gave me at school and i also threw one at him too and declared "i love satan!!"

http://www.youtube.com/comment_servlet?all...v%3D8PXrBQlN9Rw

********************************

And all Rachel did was approach a stranger and said:

"Hi. um, God's just telling me that you're on his mind, and he just wants to take you and love on you and he has special plans for you and your life. He just wants you to follow him with your whole heart."

*********************************

The whole message of Rachel took what...30 seconds? a minute?

I assume that you have been approached by a stranger at least once...asking you to fill up an application for Visa or Mastercard...

...Or your kid had gone knocking on strangers' doors asking if they could sponsor him to enter a hockey league....or buy these chocolates for the school...

Have you ever turned around and joked to your friend...or to a family member: "I'd love to grab his hockey stick and use his head for a puck?"

or...

"I shoulda just shove all those chocolates down his throat! The creep! Slaving away for peanuts...being brainwashed by the school and their parents to do hard labor for what? To get a freakin' limo ride!

*************************************

Don't you find those reactions disturbing at all?

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=7231&st=45

[pinko]

Of course it's still very much on topic! Kindly review what this whole topic is all about. Anyway, that's actually been put to rest.

This touched on a past issue - brought forward by Kimmy - but along the same point.

I am wondering if you will inform me how your exchange with Kimmy addresses the subject matter God vs Science.

[betsy]

I am wondering if you will inform me how your exchange with Kimmy addresses the subject matter God vs Science.

Sorry, I cannot hand-guide you every step of the way. You've got to read back if you must to understand.

Look Pinko, you went off-topic in another thread posted by Jonsa. Nobody made a big deal out of it. It was just ignored.

IF you find I'm off-topic here....kindly just ignore me.

[betsy]

Well, actually that Jesus Camp was a very interesting debate. I want to re-read. Some views then are still relevant to this topic.

Jesus Camp

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=7231&view=&hl=&fromsearch=1

A lot of interesting posters we used to have then that no longer are here today....where are they?

Edited February 13, 2011 by betsy

[pinko]

Sorry, I cannot hand-guide you every step of the way. You've got to read back if you must to understand.

Look Pinko, you went off-topic in another thread posted by Jonsa. Nobody made a big deal out of it. It was just ignored.

IF you find I'm off-topic here....kindly just ignore me.

I have no intention of ignoring you, Betsy. If you feel you have such a solid position on the subject matter why not deal with it on it's merits. As I read the responses here you have a tendancy to misrepresent the position of others.

[kimmy]

Thanks, waldo, for pointing out that betsy has borne false witness against me. (isn't there a Commandment against that or something? am I going to next find out that betsy also covets my ass?)

I referenced the old thread to point out the irony of betsy accusing *others* of having "anger issues". Watching her fly off the handle in the other thread should illustrate the point nicely.

-k

[Shakeyhands]

Thanks, waldo, for pointing out that betsy has borne false witness against me. (isn't there a Commandment against that or something? am I going to next find out that betsy also covets my ass?)

I referenced the old thread to point out the irony of betsy accusing *others* of having "anger issues". Watching her fly off the handle in the other thread should illustrate the point nicely.

-k

must be some ass!!!!

[cybercoma]

I think I just might have found the old Jesus Camp thread: http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=7231

[kimmy]

I think I just might have found the old Jesus Camp thread: http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=7231

Welcome to last page, Gil Grissom.

-k

[cybercoma]

lol. I'm obviously not entirely paying attention to all the posts here. I thought betsy was saying the thread was deleted or lost or something. I didn't realize someone had already linked to it.

[pinko]

Did Jesus eat kosher food?

[cybercoma]

In Soviet Russia Kosher food eats Jesus.

[pinko]

In Soviet Russia Kosher food eats Jesus.

My ancestors on my father's side of the family came from Austria-Hungary at the turn of the 20th century. I am doing a genealogical search to determine the villages my grandparents came from before coming to North America. While I had always thought they were of the Catholic faith I have been in contact with a relative suggesting a Jewish connection.

Mind you I was baptized Unitarian and attended a variety of churches in my youth while on my path to atheism.

[betsy]

Thanks, waldo, for pointing out that betsy has borne false witness against me. (isn't there a Commandment against that or something? am I going to next find out that betsy also covets my ass?)

And I do sincerely apologise - again - for confusing you with someone from the link.

I referenced the old thread to point out the irony of betsy accusing *others* of having "anger issues". Watching her fly off the handle in the other thread should illustrate the point nicely.

-k

I don't deny that I was angry with those comments made by those people directed to an 8 year old girl.

I have legitimate reasons to be upset. Any normal person - I hope - would be upset reading those vicious violent fantasies/comments directed at a child. The child in question was not anonymous. She got a name and a face.

But it depends on what you mean by "fly-off-the-handle."

Did you mean because I kept on posting about it? Sure I did....BECAUSE you kept downplaying the comments. You were in a way trying to justify the viciousness of their comment.

Did you mean because I end up giving insults too when arguments get downright nasty? My dear, we are in a forum....we tend to get carried away when we debate.

The more we are prolific in debating, and depending on the subject too...the more likelihood of getting into those debates that spiral down to trash. I'd say Jesus Camp was actually mild.

Anyway I don't see what's your point whether if ever I do have "anger issue." By equating me with a wild-eyed dude, and by your other adhominem ...you already see me as a "lunatic religious fundamentalist."

What I'm saying is that YOU ARE JUST LIKE ME.

But obviously you missed my point about the "anger issues" I'm talking on this thread God vs Science. I am talking about irrational anger. Irrational reactions.

Actually, by bringing up the dead Jesus Camp....another irony had occurred. You only illustrated...and supported what God vs Science is all about. The only difference is that we called it by another name then: FANATICS.

It emphasized that there are wing-nuts in both the religious and non-religious camp. Zealotry. Collective frenzy (displayed by some voodoo practitioners), hypocrisy and intolerance....all the usual things that made you abhor religion - it's also here, displayed by you.

Thus I see atheism as just another religion (for some atheists)...because of their own behaviour/reaction.

This thread is merely another mirror that I hold up, 5 years later...so you may see your own reflection.

Is all.

PS.

And you do have anger issues. You were actually "grilled" about that in Jesus Camp by other posters who noticed. Go back and re-read the whole transcript. Sometimes it helps in hindsight to see the picture from a different angle.

Anyway, I don't hate you, Kimmy. I was upset...but I bear you no anger.

Edited February 13, 2011 by betsy

[betsy]

I think I just might have found the old Jesus Camp thread: http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=7231

Thanks for getting it back up.

[cybercoma]

Yeah the salesman tells me how to clean my carpet...same as a preacher tells me how to clean my soul!

The salesman tells me I live in filth, and must love being in it because I didn't want to buy what he's selling....same as the preacher tells me I live in sin because I didn't want to buy what he's selling.

The salesman used the scary tactics with my health...and the preacher used the scary tactics of hell!

So there's no difference there! Bottom line: they're both telling you how to live!

This has got to be my alltime favourite quote.

[kimmy]

But it depends on what you mean by "fly-off-the-handle."

like Buddy Rich.

-k

[betsy]

like Buddy Rich.

-k

Who? Don't know the guy.

Re: Jesus Camp, how did I "fly off the handle?"

Edited February 14, 2011 by betsy

[The_Squid]

This has got to be my alltime favourite quote.

lol

So the preacher is just trying to sell you shit... even if you don't need it... they're just trying to make a buck. Good analogy by Betsy!

Edited February 14, 2011 by The_Squid

[pinko]

Was Jesus pro choice?