Debate Winners and Losers

[BQSupporter]

Anyway, here's my list of winners and losers...well, winners and loser.

Stephen Harper can be said to have won the debate as he'll probably gain the most out of it. This is not as a result of his own performance which was calm, competent, and not terribly impressive but was a result of the destruction of Paul Martin. Harper approached the debate with the classic strategy of a front-runner - stay out of trouble at all costs - and because of the pile-on on Martin, he largely did. If Layton and Duceppe had decided to concentrate their fire on Harper, things could have been different.

Layton is also a winner because he not only successfully defended the NDP from the attempt on the Liberals' part to attract voters to them with the fear of Harper and a faux-progressive platform, he probably won over more than a few left-Liberals tonight.

Duceppe did extremely well in the English debate, as Bloc leaders have in the past.It makes clear that the Bloc will do very well in Quebec at the expensive of the Liberals. His questioning was critical in helping to bring down Martin, so that's his contribution to the outcome to the debate.

Martin...wow, poor guy and this is coming from someone who doesn't like him. Attacked on all sides, with a record and platform that he could have used to defend himself or his party...if anyone believed him. He generally did not look comfortable, he stuttered as he does on occasion when he's nervous and did not successfully manage to land the severe blow on Harper that was required

Overall Haprer won the debate.

Layton is also a winner, he looked on top of things and would not let Martin take the Left flank from him.

Duceppe also a winner, continued his proformance from last night and hammered Martin about the sponsorship scandel.

[August1991]

Layton is also a winner because he not only successfully defended the NDP from the attempt on the Liberals' part to attract voters to them with the fear of Harper and a faux-progressive platform, he probably won over more than a few left-Liberals tonight.

I disagree. With this free-wheeling format, Layton interrupted too many times. He will lose votes for this kind of behaviour.

Most French commentators gave him a negative score yesterday and now I understand why. He is too anxious to speak. His constant grin makes him seem like a huckster.

[takeanumber]

My list:

1. Martin

He didn't screw up.

He set out a vision for the country.

He stayed on message.

2. Duceppe

He got his point across.

He bullied Harper.

He attacked Martin visciously.

3. Harper

He couldn't get Martin to screw up.

He stammered.

He spent a lot of time deflecting attention from social issues, and got called on it.

He was actually wounded by Layton attacks. (tax credits)

4. Layton

What a dog. What a rude, rude man.

Got pwned by Martin (did your handlers tell you to talk all the time?).

Came across just as rabid.

Enough to turn off left leaning Canadians.

[maplesyrup]

Layton goes on attack in leadership debate, gets under Martin's skin

Layton goes on attack in leadership debate, gets under Martin's skin

By LES PERREAUX

 

NDP Leader Jack Layton takes part in the English leaders' debate in Ottawa Tuesday. (CP/Tom Hanson)

OTTAWA (CP) - Jack Layton left behind little dead air in Tuesday's leadership debate as he elbowed his way into the centre of waspish exchanges with his Liberal and Conservative counterparts.

The NDP leader took a far more aggressive approach than he did the night before in the French debate, interrupting other leaders and filling pauses during free exchanges. Layton eventually got under the skin of Liberal Leader Paul Martin. "Mr. Layton, did your handlers tell you to talk all the time?" Martin said with a chuckle as Layton hounded him over relations with the United States and Canadian participation in missile defence.

Layton used Martin's joke to renew his attack on the Liberal leader.

"That's very funny Mr. Martin. We are talking here about missiles that could threaten the safety of the world. I don't find it a laughing matter, I'm sorry sir."

Layton gave Harper equal grief on his social policy and military spending plans. He mused that Harper wants to make Canada the 51st state.

Layton came close to scoring several knockouts tonight, one when Martin mentioned reducing debt, and Layton retored yes, on the back of students.

[August1991]

Got pwned by Martin

Is that really how you view life, TakeNumb?

-----

TakeNumb, I agree with you (in general).

But first, I think most people tuned out after the beginning becaus eof all the noise. I think there were about 1 million watching in 2000. I'd be surprised if that many watched this time around, or stayed to the end.

In the closing remarks, Martin's complete non-response to Duceppe's question was somehow telling.

The fundamental issue is the sponsorship scandal.

[Cameron]

MY list:

Martin:

-Didn't like answering questions

-Is the only person that I've herd talk about a "blackhole" in the Cons. budget.

-Seemed nervous

-Not very convincing

Harper:

-Calm, collected

-Got burned on some social issues

-Answered questions well (not very)

-Was the best of them all

-Agreed with the majority of his issues, is the better alternative to Martin and Layton.

Layton:

-A very sad performance (one of the reasons I kept watching)

-Treated the debate like a commercial

-Agreed with some of his issues, but the majority I disagreed

-Too left-wing for me!

-Tied too hard, should be selling used cars.

Duceppe:

-Half decent man, too bad he is pro separatist.

-Asked clean and concise questions

-Answers were good as well

-#2 in the debate

-Overall, he is with the wrong party, and I don't live in Quebec so I don't really care. And I'm tired of hearing about Quebec.

I think this country is weak. We need a good conservative ass kicking to get back in shape.

[August1991]

Layton came close to scoring several knockouts tonight, one when Martin mentioned reducing debt, and Layton retored yes, on the back of students.

You can spin this all you want MS, but your guy was irritating tonight. His points may have been valid but his style was wrong.

In particular, I suspect many women would have found him not handsome but rather a bothersome jerk.

[BQSupporter]

Harper clearly won this debate with Layton coming in a strong second. I have to admit Jack Layton did a fantastic job of smashing down the Liberal con to NDPers.

He clearly showed again and again that Paul Martin couldn’t be trusted because he is a habitual liar.

My guy Duceppe was strong again but his Quebec 1st message does not play out well across Canada, which makes him a distant 3rd in this debate.

Paul Martin flopped and badly. Expect a lot of Liberal knives out now because Paul blew this debate when the Liberals needed him to lead the most. How this moron managed to cakewalk to leader of the Liberal Party is beyond me. I predict the core Chretien loyalists focus everything they have on their loyal allies in the Liberal Party. They will take as many seats as possible while letting Martin and his hand picked minions rot in the feces of their own sh**house.

This election was Martin’s to loose, and he has done a masterful job of loosing it. Because of this the Liberal Party of Canada will have to face the full music on the sponsorship scandal and Canada can finally get the truth about 11 years of Liberal lies and cooruption.

Harper and Layton did very well. Ducceppe made the BQ pround and Martin nailed the coffin shut for his own career.

[Alliance Fanatic]

http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/Article...?hub=topstories

Harper won the debate hands down. Look at the poll numbers Canadian's now see him as prime ministerial material. I think that most people were not impressed with Paul Martin's preformance. I also like Jack Layton's poor preformance, its interesting seeing himself dig a deeper hole.

[BQSupporter]

Harper wins debate by not losing, pundits say

CTV.ca News Staff

At the end of a bruising night on the debate stage, no one political leader was left on the canvas, the victim of a knockout verbal punch by an opponent.

But one NDP analyst thought that Prime Minister Paul Martin took enough shots to ensure Conservative Party leader Stephen Harper will become the next prime minister in a minority government after Canadians go to the polls on June 28.

"I think it was a TKO against the prime minister, and I think he's finished. I think his one chance has slipped away," said Gerald Caplan on Newsnet's Countdown with Mike Duffy.

CTV's Craig Oliver concurred, saying there was no one single blow, but that Harper won both the debates by not losing and by not looking scary. "I think it was a lot easier after tonight to become a lot more comfortable with him."

Martin lost by not putting enough distance between his vision of Canada and that of the Conservatives, he said.

This was on Countdown and I also heard it on Radio Canada tonight from Chantel Hubert.

[KrustyKidd]

Harper. All the way. He just stayed normal and didn't have a decade of BS to defend.

Duceppe. Believe it or not, I'm voting for the Bloc. He made me proud admitting in all honesty that has no aspirations of the PMs seat but rather looking after his own. Honesty! Got my vote. And then he spent most of the time biting Martin in his Liberal Eleachist ass.

[August1991]

I have to agree with Paul Wells on this. He blames the principals; I blame the moderator and format - but then again, these guys are supposed to be mature leaders.

For Layton to claim that he wants to engage people in the political process, he just turned off alot of people.

It appears that Harper won by the simple fact of not speaking that often. Less is more. Harper was given credit in the French debate for simply answering questions.

All four of these guys have a good grasp of policy. All of them know that the answers are not simple. Harper had the courage to admit at one point that "Health care is a sensitive topic so maybe I shouldn't say this..." Martin said "I could have swept this under the carpet..." In their own ways, they were trying to get beyond the constraints of this campaign.

I recall debates between Trudeau and Clark in 1979, and between Mulroney and Turner in the 1980s. The Kennedy Nixon debate is a classic, as also Carter Reagan in 1980.

This English debate was sadly lacking. Why?

[Stoker]

I'm first to admit that I've some bias because I'm a Conservative voter, but aside from the first 15-20 minutes, I'd say Harper looked like the true Statesman. IMHO, he seemed very calm, cool and collected, and I'm positive that he will be our next Prime Minister.

As for the other leaders, I tend to agree with most that Layton looked like a Clown........I've always thought that his politics were a joke, but I had some extent of respect for him because he appears to truely believe what he is saying (no mater how nutty).....after tonight though, my god.....All he needed was a Big Cowboy hat, two six guns and to be sitting on top of a elephant trying to sell a 1986 Dodge mini van with no brakes........

WRT Martin, he looked like a cross between a defendent in a white collar criminal trail and the guy on the cover of the Monoploy board game.....

As for Duceppe, I always thought of him as being as the same cut as the NDP, with exception that he wants his own country..........I was actually quite impressed, and if it wasn't for the fact that he is a separatist, and say not the leader of the Libs/NDP, I'd acutally be quite worried for Harper.......Thank god that he is kinda on our side

Very clever man, just don't like his politics, which is what I used to think of Layton (not any more).

[caesar]

Harper looks like the male version of the stepford wives. No emotions; he gives me the willies.

Martin did get him good on the Iraq question and chastised him for his inappropriate apologizing for Canada not going to Iraq.

Paying down the national debt is vital; what was the remark "on the backs of students"? Students should pay for their education; they will get the big wages from this education. Perhaps phase in the loan repayments to give them time to get the experience that pays the better wages,

I do not think it is the taxpayers responsibility to provide day care. I would like to see more parents encouraged to raise their own children in the pre school years. Taxpayers should not be asked to subsidize the daycare costs of 2 well off working parents.

[Slavik44]

Harper won the debate by not losing, But the most impressive candidate up there in my opinion was gilles duceppe, perhaps because he had a smaller task, but given that english is his second language he was very impressive. I didn't see the first 30 minutes of the debate, so I can't honestly say he was overall the best but from what I saw, Harper was better then Martin and layton when it comes to national leaders.

[Slavik44]

Instant poll suggests Harper wins 2nd debate

CTV.ca News Staff

As the party leaders tried to convince viewers countrywide that they'd be the best choice for prime minister, a CTV News/Ipsos-Reid poll tracked real-time reaction.

Within moments of the leaders leaving the stage of the National Arts Centre in Ottawa, the poll results showed that a clear winner had emerged.

Based on a coast-to-coast sample of 2,107 voters who were asked to watch the English-language TV debate and respond to a special Internet survey, Ipsos-Reid reports that 37 per cent picked Conservative Party Leader Stephen Harper as the winner.

Answering the question "Overall, who in your opinion, won this debate?" only 24 per cent made Liberal Leader Paul Martin their first choice.

NDP Leader Jack Layton and Bloc Quebecois Leader Gilles Duceppe registered 18 and seven per cent, respectively.

When respondents were asked to choose the leader "Who offered the best ideas and policies in the debate," Harper also came out on top.

Thirty-five per cent said the Opposition Leader trumped his competition. Layton edged out the prime minister for second place, with 27 per cent support -- one percentage point more than chose Martin.

Duceppe's ideas only resonated strongest with 6 per cent of respondents.

Although the numbers were slightly different, the ranking was the same when respondents were asked to choose who "thinking of style... offered the best performance in the debate."

According to Ipsos-Reid pollster Darrell Bricker, an analysis of the numbers suggests Martin didn't measure up.

"He really needed to get his campaign back on track," Bricker told CTV.ca. "And what you can see is that didn't happen."

The surprise, Bricker said, was the 16 per cent of respondents who said their opinion of Duceppe had improved as a result of his performance.

"He really held Martin's feet to the fire, particularly in the early part of the debate, and was fairly reasonable with the other leaders," Bricker said, explaining the positive Bloc leader's positive momentum.

Although Martin was the only leader to register negative momentum in the course of the debate, the numbers don't add up to total defeat for the unelected prime minister.

When asked, forgetting for a minute about the federal parties and what they stand for, and forgetting about which party you might be supporting, which of the federal party leaders do you think would make the best Prime Minister of Canada, 38 per cent said Martin.

According to Bricker, however, the prime minister shouldn't rest on his laurels.

Harper was a close second, with 36 per cent of respondents saying he'd make the best government leader.

"As a result of this debate, Canadians are now starting to see him in the same league as the prime minister, which they never did before.

"These are the first data in which we've seen Harper close."

For all the attention paid to the night's debate, it seems to have stirred little change among voters.

On the question, "Did you change you mind about who to vote for because of tonight's debate?" the response was resounding.

More than 80 per cent per cent said their choice had not been swayed by the televised event.

Results of the Ipsos-Reid instant internet poll are weighted by age, gender and political support. The results are considered accurate within a 2.1 per cent margin of error.

[Reverend Blair]

As a strong NDP supporter, a westerner, and a strong believer in a unified Canada I have to say....Gilles Duceppe won the debate.

He kicked ass. He was strong without being over-bearing. He made his points. He asked questions the others could not answer. He answered the questions asked of him. On a purely debate-based competition, Gilles won. I wish our other political leaders were that competent.

Would I buy a used car from Gilles? No, he'd talk me into a new car. I wouldn't like the idea, but I'd know he had a point.

On a political basis:

Martin had nothing to lose...All the points made against him tonight had already been made and won't hurt him anymore. We knew he was crooked years ago. We knew he slashed programs years ago. We knew he was pro-business, pro-US years ago. The research hacks for the NDP and Conservatives should be whipped.

Would I buy a used car from Martin? Not for more than $1000.

Harper had everything to lose...He did okay in the debate, but the nagging questions about him and his secret agenda will continue to fester. He is still scary to those of us he had to win over completely. Those on the fence that he had to pull over he very likely pushed away.

Would I buy a used car from Harper? Maybe for spare parts, but certainly not for more than value at the crusher.

Jack Layton....Showed why I wanted Bill Blaikie for leader of my party tonight. Jack did okay. If I was listening on radio or reading it in the paper I'd be saying he did well. He lacked the presence, stuck too much to the "positive" message, and looked like a missionary.

Would I buy a used car from him? Yes, if it came with a warranty. A really good warranty. Guess we're back to Bill Blaikie there...Jack Layton's Mr. Goodwrench.

[Analyst]

I agree Harper looked like a store Maniquin-posing with new clothes on--He was lifeless-I think sneaky-and I don't like the way he doen't get along with Doucette-I see resentment of Quebec and that makes me Nervous-we need a Pm that will unite the Country not cause riffs-Harper only has Tax cuts in his Main bag of Tricks and they don't work-They Haven't helped Bush much either or Harris in Ontario

[August1991]

As for Duceppe, I always thought of him as being as the same cut as the NDP, with exception that he wants his own country

In the French debate, after Harper said that a vote for the BQ would not put anyone at a cabinet table, Duceppe answered by a simple lecture of, "If you argue against Kyoto, a woman's right to choose, gay rights and the possible division of Quebec, don't be surprised if no one in Quebec votes for you."

Duceppe is a demagogue but he's also right in saying that Harper is not in touch with Quebec. Note too that these are (almost) all social issues. Harper is on firm ground on fiscal issues.

I have often thought that Canada's best politicians in terms of rhetoric come from Quebec. Trudeau, Levesque, Parizeau, Bouchard could speak eloquently in French - and even in English.

But watch this 1988 debate clip between two anglophones and tell me if we saw anything remotely similar tonight.

The debate tonight will be quickly forgotten. This is not a historic election. It is just an election. Its only significance will be that the Liberals were defeated because of the Sponsorship Scandal, as the Tories were defeated in 1873 because of the Pacific Scandal.

[Bionic Antboy]

The debate tonight will be quickly forgotten. This is not a historic election. It is just an election. Its only significance will be that the Liberals were defeated because of the Sponsorship Scandal, as the Tories were defeated in 1873 because of the Pacific Scandal.

I agree. I don't think this debate changed many people's minds. The majority of people who watch debate (sadly) have their minds made up going in, and it takes a great orator to convince people otherwise.

If Duceppe was in any party other than the BQ, he could have won some votes, because he was clearly the best of the lot last night.

[caesar]

I work in the Vancouver down town financial core; Most people whom I discuss the election with; say the same thing. Harper scares them. The issues here are Foreign relations; Health Care, and the deficit.

Most do not want Canada to bend to nor follow the lead of a Bush lead USA. We do not want to see our Health Care disintegrate into private clinics where only the wealthy can seek quicker treatment. That will not shorten the waiting lists as claimed; as we still have the same number of available doctors to perform these needed procedures. Responsible Canadians do not want our national debt to grow; we should not make our children and grandchildren responsible for our over spending.

We are still paying for the last conservative government which introduced the gst and Free Trade.

Free trade with the USA is not working. Any time the lose a NAFTA ruling; they ignore it.

I believe that we need a strong central Federal government; we do NOT need to give more powers to the provinces. Basic control should remain with the federal government. We should have equal rights of access to services across Canada.

We need a strong Central government that can deal quickly and fairly with international issues.

Our choices are not great but lets not jump into the fire; or change just for the sake of change.

[takeanumber]

I think maybe some of the men on the board have a hard time seeing what many Canadians saw in Harper..

Cold eyes. Stiff movements.

Didn't talk much about his vision for the country.

As for Craig Oliver and 'The Duff"... hardly unbiased voices there.

[Argus]

This election was Martin’s to loose, and he has done a masterful job of loosing it. Because of this the Liberal Party of Canada will have to face the full music on the sponsorship scandal and Canada can finally get the truth about 11 years of Liberal lies and cooruption.

To be fair, this election would have been a cake walk for Martin had it not been for the eruption of the sponsorship scandal, and the McGuinty budget in Ontario. And neither of those issues was under his control.

[Argus]

Most do not want Canada to bend to nor follow the lead of a Bush lead USA.

And how many, I wonder, know anything at all about our present foreign policy, or what Canada's been doing and saying abroad, or what others think and say about Canada? A hint. It's not pretty. I said on another thread that Canada's foreign policy is that of a whore, and that pretty much describes it.

We do not want to see our Health Care disintegrate into private clinics where only the wealthy can seek quicker treatment.

Uhhhh that's the way it is now! Do you really think wealthy people, like Martin, are going to wait months for an MRI?! Do you think they're finding it hard to get a doctor? That they have to wait months or years for an operation? Give me a break! Grab some reality for a bit! Check out Europe, where they have a mix of public and private health care, and where their public system is far superior to ours. You don't sit around in a hospital for 8 hrs waiting to get a broken arm set in Germany. You don't wait three or four months for an MRI in France. You don't wait years for hip replacement surgery in Denmark. Even if you're poor.

Responsible Canadians do not want our national debt to grow; we should not make our children and grandchildren responsible for our over spending.

Do you actually think a Harper government would run a deficit? Please!

[maplesyrup]

Responsible Canadians do not want our national debt to grow; we should not make our children and grandchildren responsible for our over spending.

Do you actually think a Harper government would run a deficit? Please!

Only need a one word response to this: "MULRONEY"