jbg Posted January 2, 2011 Report Posted January 2, 2011 I suppose New Years celebrations and cartoons provoke lethal response. Or is it Israel's fault? Coptic church bombing in Egypt is latest assault on Mideast Christians (link to full text, excerpts below) Coptic church bombing in Egypt is latest assault on Mideast Christians The New Year's blast kills 21 and sparks clashes between police and Copts. Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak accuses foreign elements of involvement in the terrorist attack, which drew condemnation across the Middle East. By Borzou Daragahi and Amro Hassan, Los Angeles Times 3:39 PM PST, January 1, 2011 A devastating New Year's Day terrorist bombing at a Coptic church in Egypt that killed 21 people was the latest in a spate of violent assaults against the Middle East's vulnerable Christian communities. The car bomb explosion also injured 79 people just after midnight Saturday as worshipers were leaving a New Year's Mass at the Saints Church in east Alexandria, ****************** The attack was among the deadliest on Egyptian Christians in recent memory and the worst terrorist incident in the country since 2006, and followed similar assaults this week in Iraq. All but eight of the injured and all of the fatalities in Alexandria were Christians, according to Egypt's Ministry of Health. No one immediately claimed responsibility for the attack, which was being described as a suicide bombing. The explosion, which appeared designed to inflict maximum civilian casualties, bore the hallmark of Al Qaeda militants. ****************** The attack in the ancient Mediterranean coastal city was the latest in a wave of violence against once-resilient Christian communities in the Muslim world, some of which date back to antiquity. Christmas Eve assaults by Muslim extremists killed dozens of Christians in the Nigerian cities of Jos and Maiduguri. And Iraq's Christians have endured a relentless campaign of attacks and intimidation by the local branch of Al Qaeda. An Oct. 31 siege on a Baghdad church that killed at least 58 parishioners and staff members sparked a new Christian exodus from the Iraqi capital and the northern city of Mosul. About 1,000 families sought refuge in Iraq's semiautonomous Kurdish enclave afterward, according to the United Nations. Further threats of violence by Islamic militants caused many Christians in Iraq to tone down Christmas celebrations, and attacks Thursday against 10 Christian targets left an elderly couple dead. Terror Suspects Appear in Danish Court(link to full text, excerpts below) By CHRISTINA ANDERSON and J. DAVID GOODMAN STOCKHOLM — Three men arrested in Denmark on Wednesday on suspicion of planning an imminent attack on a newspaper that published satirical cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad five years ago appeared in court on terrorism and weapons charges in Copenhagen on Thursday, and a fourth appeared in Sweden. Danish officials have called the case the most serious attempt at a terror attack in their country. The men in Danish court were accused of being in possession of a machine pistol, a 9-millimeter pistol, ammunition for both and a silencer. ************************ One of the men was identified as Munir Awad, a 29-year-old Swede of Lebanese origin. A man by that name was detained in 2007 by American and Kenyan forces as he and his girlfriend, Saifa Benaouda, tried to leave Somalia after traveling there from Sweden. They were taken to Ethiopia, according to her account, where they were interrogated and later released. The two other suspects were identified in Swedish news reports as Omar Abdalla Aboelazm, a 30-year-old Swedish citizen, and Mounir Dhahri, a 44-year-old Tunisian. All three men had been living in Sweden. In the initial sweep, two other suspects were arrested: one in Denmark and one in Sweden. The one arrested in Denmark, a 26-year-old Iraqi who has lived in Copenhagen on a residency permit since 2000, was released on Thursday. The police said the man had helped those traveling from Sweden to get an apartment in the Copenhagen suburb of Herlev, but they did not have enough evidence to charge him with a crime. He is still regarded as a suspect, the police said. The last suspect, a 37-year-old Swedish citizen of Tunisian origin identified as Sahbi Zalouti, was arrested in Stockholm and appeared on Thursday before a Swedish court, which ordered him held on charges that he helped plan the attack. . The Jyllands-Posten newspaper published the cartoons of Muhammad in 2005 to affirm what it called freedom of expression. The drawings, seen as blasphemous and a deliberate provocation by many Muslims, prompted repeated attempts at violent retribution against the cartoonists, the newspaper and its employees. The suspects who lived in Sweden did not appear connected to a botched Stockholm suicide bombing on Dec. 11, the police said. The bomber in that case, a 28-year-old Swedish citizen of Iraqi origin, had in a message singled out Lars Vilks, a Swedish artist, over a 2007 drawing he made of Muhammad’s head on the body of a dog. ********************* The head of Denmark’s security police said Wednesday that the men planned to kill as many people as possible in a “Mumbai-style” attack on the paper. Several European countries have been on alert for months over the possibility of such an attack modeled on the 2008 assault on Mumbai, India, in which 10 highly trained and heavily armed men struck multiple locations around the city, leaving 163 dead. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
bjre Posted January 2, 2011 Report Posted January 2, 2011 (edited) That is the question of egg first or chicken first. If continue this endless blaming game and make this another reason of killing more, the blood will still flow. The only happy ones are politicians and the weapon maker/sellers, ordinary people of both sides just suffer from that. At least you have to suffer from airport body search too. So far politicians "love" peace are only for mouth, actually they try hard for finding all reason for wars. That's why they enjoy blaming instead of kindness. I believe those people hate peace, they want profit from wars, that is the reason why Yitzhak Rabin, the man who can actually bring peace, was murdered. If any of the 2 sides stop first, and the other one stop next, peace will come. Edited January 2, 2011 by bjre Quote "The more laws, the less freedom" -- bjre "There are so many laws that nearly everybody breaks some, even when you just stay at home do nothing, the only question left is how thugs can use laws to attack you" -- bjre "If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson
jbg Posted January 2, 2011 Author Report Posted January 2, 2011 If any of the 2 sides stop first, and the other one stop next, peace will come. I'm sure the New Year's revelers incited this attack. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Jack Weber Posted January 2, 2011 Report Posted January 2, 2011 I was told be someone here that Egypt was a shining example of how moderate Muslims were starting to fight back against the bloodthirsty Islamofascists... Coptic Christians being murdered (again) by,at least on the surface,Islamofascists in Egypt... Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
bloodyminded Posted January 2, 2011 Report Posted January 2, 2011 I'm sure the New Year's revelers incited this attack. So who incited the far worse terror attacks in which our nations are directly culpable? We can't blame our radical religious elements, so where exactly does the blame sit? Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
jbg Posted January 2, 2011 Author Report Posted January 2, 2011 So who incited the far worse terror attacks in which our nations are directly culpable? We can't blame our radical religious elements, so where exactly does the blame sit? I'm not sure what you're getting at. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
bloodyminded Posted January 2, 2011 Report Posted January 2, 2011 (edited) I'm not sure what you're getting at. What I'm getting at is that Western political and intellectual culture generally does not oppose terrorism. So the moral denunciations are, as always, about who is committing terrorism, not some non-existent abhorrence of terrorism itself. That doesn't change the facts as stated, I fully concede. But it changes the paradigm of discussion, and the ethical considerations that are implicit. Further, if "Islamofascist" is a useable term for their terrorists, what term can be applied to ours? They're neither Christian, Muslim, Jew, nor atheist--not as a governing factor to the violence. But surely we can think of a suitably derogatory term. Edited January 2, 2011 by bloodyminded Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Scotty Posted January 2, 2011 Report Posted January 2, 2011 I was told be someone here that Egypt was a shining example of how moderate Muslims were starting to fight back against the bloodthirsty Islamofascists... Coptic Christians being murdered (again) by,at least on the surface,Islamofascists in Egypt... From what I have read Egypt is becoming more and more religious and more conservatively religious year by year. I saw an article not long ago which said that while women usually didn't wear the hijab twenty years ago now most do, and this trend is continuing. There is also growing intolerence towards religious minorities. Quote It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
jbg Posted January 2, 2011 Author Report Posted January 2, 2011 From what I have read Egypt is becoming more and more religious and more conservatively religious year by year. It takes a very pious and religious person to blow himself up at a church of a minority religion. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
M.Dancer Posted January 2, 2011 Report Posted January 2, 2011 I'm not sure what you're getting at. Neither does he....but he sure does like to babble... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
M.Dancer Posted January 2, 2011 Report Posted January 2, 2011 It takes a very pious and religious person to blow himself up at a church of a minority religion. Obviously the christians are not dhimmi enough. Shame on the egyptian christians for provoking this martyrdom... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
bloodyminded Posted January 2, 2011 Report Posted January 2, 2011 (edited) Neither does he....but he sure does like to babble... And once again, M. Dancer, who refuses to debate me head on, indulges in vacuous criticisms of me at second hand. Edited January 2, 2011 by bloodyminded Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
bjre Posted January 2, 2011 Report Posted January 2, 2011 (edited) It takes a very pious and religious person to blow himself up at a church of a minority religion. Politicians are pious only when they need it, such as promote a war. When dealing with gays, they are no longer pious. When dealing with spare the rod spoil the child, they are no longer pious. Religious to politicians are only another tool. Edited January 2, 2011 by bjre Quote "The more laws, the less freedom" -- bjre "There are so many laws that nearly everybody breaks some, even when you just stay at home do nothing, the only question left is how thugs can use laws to attack you" -- bjre "If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson
bjre Posted January 2, 2011 Report Posted January 2, 2011 (edited) It takes a very pious and religious person to blow himself up at a church of a minority religion. Actually, be a murder need not to be pious, hate is enough to go extreme, there are too many examples. I just don't understand why those try hard to relate such kind of things to religious not hate crime, but while Stephen Boissoin talk about his opinion on gay marriage was charged with hate crime. In fact Stephen Boissoin's letter did not lead to a war that many people die of that. Edited January 2, 2011 by bjre Quote "The more laws, the less freedom" -- bjre "There are so many laws that nearly everybody breaks some, even when you just stay at home do nothing, the only question left is how thugs can use laws to attack you" -- bjre "If people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." -- Thomas Jefferson
kimmy Posted January 3, 2011 Report Posted January 3, 2011 What I'm getting at is that Western political and intellectual culture generally does not oppose terrorism. So the moral denunciations are, as always, about who is committing terrorism, not some non-existent abhorrence of terrorism itself. That doesn't change the facts as stated, I fully concede. But it changes the paradigm of discussion, and the ethical considerations that are implicit. Further, if "Islamofascist" is a useable term for their terrorists, what term can be applied to ours? They're neither Christian, Muslim, Jew, nor atheist--not as a governing factor to the violence. But surely we can think of a suitably derogatory term. You've argued this West-as-terrorist angle before. Can you direct us to the prior discussion so that we can see what you're talking about? -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 3, 2011 Report Posted January 3, 2011 And once again, M. Dancer, who refuses to debate me head on, indulges in vacuous criticisms of me at second hand. LOL! Pot...Kettle...WHITE! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
jbg Posted January 3, 2011 Author Report Posted January 3, 2011 You've argued this West-as-terrorist angle before. Can you direct us to the prior discussion so that we can see what you're talking about?This "West is as bad" argument is facially ridiculous. We avoid blowing up mosques when we fight. They don't avoid churches; they seek them out to blow up, complete with worshipers. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
GostHacked Posted January 3, 2011 Report Posted January 3, 2011 Doesn't this happen in Egypt like every year? Quote
M.Dancer Posted January 3, 2011 Report Posted January 3, 2011 This "West is as bad" argument is facially ridiculous. We avoid blowing up mosques when we fight. They don't avoid churches; they seek them out to blow up, complete with worshipers. And more to the point, what does the west do that would incite fanatics to kill their own countrymen at a place of worship? Can they not be insanely murderous without our help? Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
jbg Posted January 3, 2011 Author Report Posted January 3, 2011 And more to the point, what does the west do that would incite fanatics to kill their own countrymen at a place of worship? Can they not be insanely murderous without our help? I couldn't have said it better. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
kimmy Posted January 5, 2011 Report Posted January 5, 2011 In a related development... Governments in Europe are stepping up security at Coptic churches and Liberal MP Jim Karygiannis is asking why our government isn't doing the same. There is fear of more attacks, because... Rhetoric targeting the ancient Christian sect has been escalating for months. Extremist Islamic groups accuse Copts in Egypt, Australia, Europe and Canada of converting Muslims and defaming Islam – and have lately named specific targets in all these places. Yes, specific targets have been listed on an Al Qaeda-linked website, including over 100 Canadians. More than 100 Canadian-Arab Christians are listed on an al-Qaeda affiliated website, apparently targeted because of their alleged role in attempting to convert Muslims.The Shumukh-al-Islam website, often considered to be al-Qaeda’s mouthpiece, listed pictures, addresses and cellphone numbers of Coptic Christians, predominantly Egyptian-Canadians, who have been vocal about their opposition to Islam. Three pages of the fundamentalist, Arabic-language website titled “Complete information on Coptics” sets to “identify and name all of the Coptics throughout the world who hope to defame Islam,” The website calls the Coptic Christians living abroad “dogs in diaspora,” a derogatory reference in Arabic. In a forum on the website, one member named Son of a Sharp Sword, says “We are going to return back to Islam and all of the Mujahedeen [holy warriors] will cut off their heads.” Over 100 Canadians have been identified by name as targets for violence, by a bunch of foreign douchebags. Personally, I am not a fan. -k Quote (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
Rue Posted January 6, 2011 Report Posted January 6, 2011 Actually, be a murder need not to be pious, hate is enough to go extreme, there are too many examples. I just don't understand why those try hard to relate such kind of things to religious not hate crime, but while Stephen Boissoin talk about his opinion on gay marriage was charged with hate crime. In fact Stephen Boissoin's letter did not lead to a war that many people die of that. I agree with both your posts bjre. I also think the title of this thread was completely non germaine to the issue and inflammatory. Quote
Rue Posted January 6, 2011 Report Posted January 6, 2011 This "West is as bad" argument is facially ridiculous. We avoid blowing up mosques when we fight. They don't avoid churches; they seek them out to blow up, complete with worshipers. Therein lies your true agenda as manifested by the above words and the title you used to start this thread. Your agenda is to get into a pissing match between the West and East and turn this unfortunate act of cold blooded terror into a platform to once again pull out your agenda of putting down the Muslim world. You used this terrorist tragedy as an opportunity to advance your real agenda. To me you are doing nothing different then those who come on this board and so the same in reverse against Israel and blame every Israeli and Jew in the world and/or women, and/or gay, etc. for anything they perceive is unfair. Quote
jbg Posted January 7, 2011 Author Report Posted January 7, 2011 You used this terrorist tragedy as an opportunity to advance your real agenda.My real agenda is to get people to see reality. And the reality is that there is a real East v. West problem in the world. You are clearly trying to hide being a pseudo-intellectual microanalysis of the differences between people who hate us. At the end of the day many more Easterners move to Canada and the U.S. in total safety and freedom, indeed at our expense, than they welcome of us. Care to try to open a church or synagogue in Saudi Arabia? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
bush_cheney2004 Posted January 7, 2011 Report Posted January 7, 2011 ....Care to try to open a church or synagogue in Saudi Arabia? Still bashing Arabs? You need to go there for some real sport! Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
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