Atlantic Party of Canada

[The_Squid]

The point is, any party that runs candidates across the country (which all three do) by nature must place priority to the vote-heavy areas of Ontario, Quebec, and parts of the West.

By this reasoning, I can see poor little PEI complaining about how the APC caters to those vote-rich Provinces like Nova Scotia nad New Brunswick.

[M.Dancer]

I guess it depends how you define democracy. I consider a system that leaves elected officials unable to vote the interests of their constituents (or else they'll be kicked out of caucus and forced to serve as a lame-duck independent) undemocratic.

I see people who are elected as party members acting as party members to be what party politics is all about. A party without discipline has zero chance changing that. So this pie in the sky thread should end.

[wyly]

Hey, not sure how many Atlantic Canadians are on this site, but I'm raising awareness for a grassroots political movement designed at ending the undemocratic stranglehold that the Big 3 (Libs, Cons, and NDP) have on our region. They have proven time and again that they are unwilling and unable to be our voice in Ottawa, and until we start electing parties whose main purpose is to advance Atlantic Canadian interests, we are forfeiting our right to have a voice in the political process of the nation we belong too.

The Atlantic Party if Canada is such a party.

Please check us out at www.atlanticparty.ca

If what we say resonates with you, please click the "support the APC" tab on the website. The only support we're asking for right now is your signature. It doesn't cost you a thing, and you will be supporting a better life for all of us.

you're starting in the wrong place... if want to change the undemocratic stranglehold start with the electoral system...until that is accomplished you're wasting your time...

[APC]

I see people who are elected as party members acting as party members to be what party politics is all about. A party without discipline has zero chance changing that. So this pie in the sky thread should end.

The APC will have discipline, the difference is, the discipline will be wielded by a party that cares only about Atlantic Canada, instead of not caring at all.

If you don't like the thread, then stop posting in it.

[APC]

you're starting in the wrong place... if want to change the undemocratic stranglehold start with the electoral system...until that is accomplished you're wasting your time...

Not gonna happen in my lifetime, so I'm focusing my energy on something I think I acutally may be able to change.

[APC]

By this reasoning, I can see poor little PEI complaining about how the APC caters to those vote-rich Provinces like Nova Scotia nad New Brunswick.

A fair point, however PEI would still be in a much better position then it is now, and more importantly, most issues at the Federal level deal with the Atlantic region as a whole, and not individual provinces.

I can't think of too many initiatives (on the Federal level) that are bad for PEI but good for, say, NB or NS.

[wyly]

Not gonna happen in my lifetime, so I'm focusing my energy on something I think I acutally may be able to change.

the electoral system is designed to keep two parties in power forever good luck getting your party elected in ten lifetimes without change...

[M.Dancer]

The APC will have discipline, the difference is, the discipline will be wielded by a party that cares only about Atlantic Canada, instead of not caring at all.

If you don't like the thread, then stop posting in it.

I love this thread. Where else can I see such childish nonsesnse at this price?

[M.Dancer]

The APC will have discipline, the difference is, the discipline will be wielded by a party that cares only about Atlantic Canada, instead of not caring at all.

So basically the party you are fantasizing about is really no different than any other party other than being a party with the interests of the Atlantic provinces rather than Canada....Bloc Atlantique....

At least you have repudiated all the previous nonsense you have been spouting....that the party whip system is undemocratic etc etc...

[APC]

So basically the party you are fantasizing about is really no different than any other party other than being a party with the interests of the Atlantic provinces rather than Canada....Bloc Atlantique....

At least you have repudiated all the previous nonsense you have been spouting....that the party whip system is undemocratic etc etc...

No, the system is undemocrative when partic discipline is enforced on MP's FROM Atlantic Canada by parties whose interests are OPPOSED to Atlantic Canada's. When the party is devoted solely to furthering AC interests, then the MP's who vote will do so with the best interests of their constituents in mind.....i.e. democraticly.

As my previous post, there are no issues at the Federal level that are bad for one Atlantic province and good for another.

With regards to the Bloc comparison, I would say it is apt. After all, the Bloc is merely doing what every government SHOULD do for it's constituents...that is, try to get the best deal they can for their citizens. It is not the Bloc's job to look out for any intersts other then Quebec's, nor do we consider it our job to look out for any other areas interests but ours...that is how democracy works. We elect people to represent us, and you do the same, and let the chips fall where they may.

if you want to blame someone for Quebec's outsized influence in Ottawa, blame the weak politicians that give in to their demands, and not the Bloc for making them.

Edited December 30, 2010 by APC

[M.Dancer]

No, the system is undemocrative when partic discipline is enforced on MP's FROM Atlantic Canada by parties whose interests are OPPOSED to Atlantic Canada's.

That is merely an opionion..not even remotely a fact. Those MPs FROM atlantic Canada are voted in by Atlantic Canadians...how many MPs does your party have again?

When the party is devoted solely to furthering AC interests, then the MP's who vote will do so with the best interests of their constituents in mind.....i.e. democraticly.

Or they will be kicked out of the party..same old same old...

As my previous post, there are no issues at the Federal level that are bad for one Atlantic province and good for another.

Son you think that Newfoundland should share the oil?

With regards to the Bloc comparison, I would say it is apt.

Indeed. They are scurrilous parochial scoundrels.

After all, the Bloc is merely doing what every government SHOULD do for it's constituents...

Work to weaken and embarrass Canada?

[The_Squid]

Comparing your party to the Bloc and being proud to be the same is a sure-fire way to lose. So your party wants to go to Ottawa to whine and snivel about how Canada screws the Atlantic Provinces, while collecting a fat paycheck sitting on your asses. Screw the rest of the country... you don't care.

GIVE US MORE.... GIVE US MORE....

[bloodyminded]

So basically the party you are fantasizing about is really no different than any other party other than being a party with the interests of the Atlantic provinces rather than Canada....Bloc Atlantique....

...Bloc Reform. Bloc Wildrose.

[APC]

Comparing your party to the Bloc and being proud to be the same is a sure-fire way to lose. So your party wants to go to Ottawa to whine and snivel about how Canada screws the Atlantic Provinces, while collecting a fat paycheck sitting on your asses. Screw the rest of the country... you don't care.

GIVE US MORE.... GIVE US MORE....

Haven't been on here for a while, but just wanted to clarify a few things. First of all, I love this country. I served 6 years in the Canadian Forces as an infantry soldier. I was deployed to Afghanistan in 2007 as a member of 2nd Battalion, The Royal Canadian Regiment. Of the 40 guys in my company, only 35 came back. So I think I've earned my patriotic credentials. And as Thomas Paine once said, "A patriot is one who protects his country from his government."

We must never confuse dissent with disloyalty, and we are dissenting with our what we feel our place is within the current political system. And we are exercising our constitutional right to address the grievances we have.

And before you criticize, do some research. A quick look at the policies on our website (www.atlanticparty.ca) will show you that we don't believe anythign of the sort that you're insinuating.

In fact, we believe Equalization (the "fat paycheck" you're reffering too) to be a drug that Atlantic Canada is addicted too (among others) and due to it's economic disincentives is largely responsible for keeping Atlantic Canada in (relative) poverty in prepetuity. Our position regarding Equalization is that the entire system needs to be overhauled, and that is the policy yhat we would pursue at the Federal level.

For an update, we have been on Global News, CBC News (Atlantic region) and numerous radio talk shows in the past month or so. Due to that exposure, we are roughly 75% of the needed membership to officially register the Party. Like it or not, this is going to happen, and based on the feedback I'm getting from Atlantic Canadians (who are really all that matter with regards to this issue) the response is overwhelmingly positive.

[ccen]

This Atlantic Party of Canada seems like something not like the Bloc but maybe a party just standing up for the region. I think that it could be a good idea for parties to be for particular regions so the majority of people in those regions get what they want. I for one agree that the more parties you have the better so you give people choices.

[Wild Bill]

This Atlantic Party of Canada seems like something not like the Bloc but maybe a party just standing up for the region. I think that it could be a good idea for parties to be for particular regions so the majority of people in those regions get what they want. I for one agree that the more parties you have the better so you give people choices.

Why, just look at Italy, for example!

[ccen]

Well I do agree with one thing about this whole topic and that is a new party needs to be created and it has to be one that is not separatist or one for regionalism it has to be one that challenges the two major parties. That will be a good day when there is a party that challenges the two major parties.

I also agree there needs to be parties between the NDP and Liberals, between the Liberals and Conservatives, slightly right of the Conservatives, and slightly left of the NDP. It makes for a better society with more parties so all voices are heard.

[APC]

Why, just look at Italy, for example!

So we in Atlantic Canada should just be satisfied with no voice in our own political affairs at the Federal level because of that?

[M.Dancer]

So we in Atlantic Canada should just be satisfied with no voice in our own political affairs at the Federal level because of that?

Of course not. You already have 3 sitting voices and umpteen fringe voices....no problem at all to add another fringe to the mix...not that anyone will give a rat's ass./..,

[ccen]

Well at least it wouldn't take long to create a party since you just need enough members for the region of Atlantic Canada which is about 40ish.

[Jack Weber]

Speaking of fringe,was'nt Atlantic Canada the birthplace of the now defunct Confederation of Regions party?

[ccen]

Speaking of fringe,was'nt Atlantic Canada the birthplace of the now defunct Confederation of Regions party?

Well if one for Atlantic Canada gets created and one for the West gets created it may create regionalism and regionalism is bad for national unity and it is something the major parties have to worry about if they ever want to form government even a minority one.

[Wild Bill]

So we in Atlantic Canada should just be satisfied with no voice in our own political affairs at the Federal level because of that?

Please don't misunderstand me! You have every right to form a party and I support that right! The same goes for 'ccen' and his 'in between the other guys' party.

That being said, that doesn't mean I think your party or his will accomplish your goals. Or even be successful enough to make a good try. I was heavily involved with the Reform Party and I know first hand how difficult it is to launch a new party. That Manning accomplished as much as he did in such a relatively short time frame was simply astonishing.

The biggest problem is money! Reform had some strong backers in the beginning and they also worked very hard on donations practically from Day 1. Meetings and rallies every few weeks, with an empty KFC bucket passed around at every one. Volunteers pressed into phone calling, asking for donations. Everything costs money, from paper and pens to printing brochures. Those brochures need envelopes and stamps.

The next problem is a clear message. People are not going to open their wallets or volunteer their time unless they know exactly why they're doing it! A vague message or goal won't cut it. Promises that things will be 'explained later' also won't cut it. You can't give any guarantee that if someone gives you money today he will be happy with your message when it is finally out in the open. Ccen has already done that, at least for someone like me. When he started talking about fiscal conservatism I was interested but when he talked about cutting military support I lost interest. The military is an important interest of mine and when asking me for support his party's position would be a deal breaker for me.

The third concern will be HOW you develop your party's policies! Are you going to have a populist party and have policies driven from the membership, like Reform? Or are you going to have your party leadership present a "Party Platform", like Moses and his Tablets coming down from Mt. Sinai?

You'd best get it all together beforehand or else it can prove too late. It's like getting a tattoo. Once you get branded it's nearly impossible to change people's perceptions of you. There are advantages and disadvantages to both Top and Bottom driven policy but what you choose WILL change the demographics of your potential support! Best if you thoroughly understand that so that you can choose your best targets to focus on.

The idea that you can just put up a webpage and get a few folks to sign up is not nearly enough. If you want to challenge the 'big boys' you need to have 'big boy' resources. Moreover, if a new party cannot garner enough money from its supporters it will not be taken seriously. This might make the Liberals, the Bloc and the NDP look like hypocrites but hey, they're politicians! It won't bother them!

If you intend merely to be a regional party then you are putting yourself under a serious challenge. The odds of being able to control an entire region's seats are pretty slim. Even the Bloc doesn't control ALL Quebec seats! In the Maritimes you will have an additional challenge. If you are chartered to forever be a regional party then you can never be the ruling party. This means that unless you happen to end up after a particular election with a HUGE number of seats to offer a minority government you will have no power at all! The other parties will simply ignore you. Most voters understand this and it WILL influence if they will vote for you! It's part of why parties like the NDP effectively have a cap on their level of support. Too many voters know that an opposition MP rarely has any power. He can have a very effective riding office that will do a bang up job helping constituents with their EI and other government bureaucracy snags (my area has and has had a number of NDP MPs and MPPs - their offices have frankly far outshone those of their rivals in those areas!) but an opposition member just can't "deliver the pork", or anything of substance like money for a new bridge, building or project. The ruling party has ALL such power!

Jean Chretien filled his riding with a whole BUNCH of canoe museums. An opposition member would be lucky to get a canoe!

I realize that both of your parties are in their infancy and will no doubt be better fleshed out over the months ahead. I'm just suggesting you study your history and not waste your time and money re-inventing the wheel.

[bloodyminded]

Speaking of fringe,was'nt Atlantic Canada the birthplace of the now defunct Confederation of Regions party?

Yes. They remain a provincial joke to this day.

[ccen]

Yes. They remain a provincial joke to this day.

I kind of hope that there could be more parties like Confederation of the Regions since it stood up for areas that do not get a lot of support which is rural areas.