wyly Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 Same here. Debate the ISSUE, no matter how uncomfortable it may be. but you don't debate, you have the same approach my kids used when they were 5, "why? why? why?"...they couldn't formulate a question because they had zero understanding or knowledge of the issue... repeatedly asking why, why, why while putting your fingers in your ears is not debating...and even when given an answer you appear to have zero ability to comprehend what you've been told and are unable to respond with an intelligent rebuttal...so either you're genuinely ignorant or you're being deliberately ignorant which would make you one of the worst trolls ever on MLW...even worse than BC... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Michael Hardner Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 I'm trying to. I have pointed out that NASA provides temperature data. Ok, no news is good news. I think my point has stuck. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
bloodyminded Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 Same here. Debate the ISSUE, no matter how uncomfortable it may be. Michael makes real effort to debate the issue. He repeatedly tells you to "check the source provided" because this was an initial response to your questions...which you keep repeating as if no one has attempted to answer you. But people have attempted to answer you. You simply don't seem interested, for some reason. Some of us feel that you are not really making any effort at all. That's not an "insult" that proves I'm "losing the debate." That's my honest observation. I'm not sure you can't debate the issues; but I feel confident in asserting that you won't. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Michael Hardner Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 I'm not sure you can't debate the issues; but I feel confident in asserting that you won't. You're likely correct, but some Siapans have hung around and made the effort to sit at the grown-ups table. I have some in mind, but I won't name them here. The key to making this board into a public, that takes a responsible interest in it's contribution to the debate, is for the members to take the board seriously and take steps to improve the quality of debate from both sides of the political spectrum. I have had to acknowledge that some posters here possess fringe views, even abhorrent views, but also possess the ability to debate their points rationally, and debate them well. As such, I have no choice but to accept that they hold their points of view in good faith, even if I strongly disagree with them. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Saipan Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 Michael makes real effort to debate the issue. Everyone makes that claim. So where's the global warm up? And why it's nowadays called just climate change? Is it so no one can argue it away - since climate always changes? He repeatedly tells you to "check the source provided" Reason I provided the source. Quote
bloodyminded Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 You're likely correct, but some Siapans have hung around and made the effort to sit at the grown-ups table. I have some in mind, but I won't name them here. The key to making this board into a public, that takes a responsible interest in it's contribution to the debate, is for the members to take the board seriously and take steps to improve the quality of debate from both sides of the political spectrum. Exactly. While many of us--maybe most--will ocassionally indulge in behaviour that seems...well, trollish, some of us consider this a personal weakness, not a strength, and regret it, and strive usually to avoid it. A few people clearly truly enjoy this type of behaviour, and feel it's the reason they're here. I have had to acknowledge that some posters here possess fringe views, even abhorrent views, but also possess the ability to debate their points rationally, and debate them well. As such, I have no choice but to accept that they hold their points of view in good faith, even if I strongly disagree with them. Exactly so. I agree. Some people no doubt consider at least a couple of my views to be sheer lunacy; I can accept that, so long as I'm given a fair shake to express why I think what I do. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Michael Hardner Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 Everyone makes that claim. So where's the global warm up? Temperature stations used by NASA and elsewhere are located all over the world and satellite based too. And why it's nowadays called just climate change? Is it so no one can argue it away - since climate always changes? No. It was called both around the same time. Although the world is warming overall, individual areas may see lower temps as a result of the changes hence the term. NOW. You have an answer on both questions. Next round is that you build on your new knowledge, having read my responses, and ask something new. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 Exactly so. I agree. Some people no doubt consider at least a couple of my views to be sheer lunacy; I can accept that, so long as I'm given a fair shake to express why I think what I do. Pliny and Argus both have views which I (and I would say many) would consider outside the mainstream but they are good at arguing them down to a set of rationalizations that include: personal values, provable points, and points that can't be proven-or-disproven. As such, it's like trying to staple Jello to a corkboard to catch them in a contradiction... Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Jack Weber Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) Michael makes real effort to debate the issue. He repeatedly tells you to "check the source provided" because this was an initial response to your questions...which you keep repeating as if no one has attempted to answer you. But people have attempted to answer you. You simply don't seem interested, for some reason. Some of us feel that you are not really making any effort at all. That's not an "insult" that proves I'm "losing the debate." That's my honest observation. I'm not sure you can't debate the issues; but I feel confident in asserting that you won't. BM... Do yourself a favour and put that fool on ignore.I generally don't do that to most folks here,but,if you look at Dustpan's time here,amount of posts,and,nature of those posts I think you'll find that this is the best this person can do. Frankly,I lost my patience with his abject cluelessness and banished him to Nevernever land...His style reminds me of Lictor's without the articulation and obvious bigotry... They're both in the same place... Edited January 9, 2011 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Michael Hardner Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 They're both in the same place... No, Jack they're not. Lictor is gone. Saipan is still with us, and now he's here with an option to grow an inch or two... Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
GostHacked Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 I can't beleive you guys would entertain Sapian for that long. Usueally with any other 'denier' we get thrown to the floor with insults and such. Nothing like that here against Sapian and yet you guys are carrying on pages after he repeats the same thing over and over again. Quote
bloodyminded Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 I can't beleive you guys would entertain Sapian for that long. Usueally with any other 'denier' we get thrown to the floor with insults and such. Unlike us "alarmists" who take "science as religion." The deniers have distinguished themselves through their civility and restraint. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Michael Hardner Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 I can't beleive you guys would entertain Sapian for that long. Usueally with any other 'denier' we get thrown to the floor with insults and such. Nothing like that here against Sapian and yet you guys are carrying on pages after he repeats the same thing over and over again. I have to give somebody the benefit of the doubt to a point, but admittedly that point has arrived and if he doesn't build on discussion, and continues to regress to baby-simple questions then it will pass. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
wyly Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) I can't beleive you guys would entertain Sapian for that long. Usueally with any other 'denier' we get thrown to the floor with insults and such. Nothing like that here against Sapian and yet you guys are carrying on pages after he repeats the same thing over and over again. I haven't put him on ignore only because he's always civil...I just won't entertain his tactics on the science of CC as it's pointless, he doesn't debate...unlike yourself who at times can be a little annoying (myself as well) but you always remain well within civil debating standards so I'm happy to debate with you...if he ever formulates an intelligent question or puts forth a view worth addressing I still have the option to respond... Edited January 9, 2011 by wyly Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Saipan Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 Temperature stations used by NASA and elsewhere are located all over the world and satellite based too. Yes, and we all have thermometers. Although the world is warming overall Where? It's cooling in many places. Namely here, Europe and Asia. If you don't know that is OK too. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 Yes, and we all have thermometers. You don't have a network that's all over the world, with data over the last hundred years and access to proxy data from the past. Where? It's cooling in many places. Namely here, Europe and Asia. Not cooling here - NASA has pointed out that the last decade was the warmest in North America. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
Saipan Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 You don't have a network that's all over the world, with data over the last hundred years and access to proxy data from the past. I can access data several decades back, day by day, month by month. I already posted link. Not cooling here - NASA has pointed out that the last decade was the warmest in North America. You can fool some people some of the time.... but you can't fool vegetation. Grapes (King of the North) went gradually from fully ripe 8 years ago to just little green pellets the size of BBs frozen in the early fall year ago. Shouldn't that be the other way 'round?? We no longer go swimming as the water never warms up enough. Temperatures near +40C are just fond memory. Quote
bloodyminded Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 You can fool some people some of the time.... but you can't fool vegetation. Grapes (King of the North) went gradually from fully ripe 8 years ago to just little green pellets the size of BBs frozen in the early fall year ago. Shouldn't that be the other way 'round?? We no longer go swimming as the water never warms up enough. Temperatures near +40C are just fond memory. Warming in north America doesn't mean that every single North American region must be warmer. This was already explained to you. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Saipan Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 Warming in north America doesn't mean that every single North American region must be warmer. This was already explained to you. A reason I asked where is the warm up. Or more precisely: Which part of Canada is warmer? And how is that global? Quote
bloodyminded Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 A reason I asked where is the warm up. Or more precisely: Which part of Canada is warmer? And how is that global? This has all been explained. You keep ignoring the answers, then asking the same questions again. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Saipan Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 This has all been explained. No, that is opinion only. You ducked the questions again. Quote
bloodyminded Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 No, that is opinion only. You ducked the questions again. No...you keep ducking the answers. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Saipan Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 You didn't answer any of the three questions. Quote
bloodyminded Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) You didn't answer any of the three questions. They've been answered; but you ignore the answers and keep asking the same questions. Why would this time be any different? Hell, you can't even admit the Dalai Lama is a Marxist and a socialist...when he says so himself. Edited January 9, 2011 by bloodyminded Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Saipan Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 They've been answered; but you ignore the answers and keep asking the same questions. Name the warm places then. Hell, you can't even admit the Dalai Lama is a Marxist and a socialist...when he says so himself. Hell, you're lost in a wrong thread again. Get back there Quote
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