bloodyminded Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) Name the warm places then. How about my home of Fredericton, New Brunswick? So much rain in December that it flooded throughout the province. Edited January 9, 2011 by bloodyminded Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Saipan Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 How about my home of Fredericton, New Brunswick? So much rain in December that it flooded throughout the province. How about it? We had drizzle and +4C in January some 20 years ago, while Florida on the same day had frost and they had to spray oranges. Compare to -14C December 13, 2007 Fredericton, New Brunswick - for example. Quote
bloodyminded Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 How about it? We had drizzle and +4C in January some 20 years ago, while Florida on the same day had frost and they had to spray oranges. Compare to -14C December 13, 2007 Fredericton, New Brunswick - for example. my pont was that if your grapes tell us anything, then by the same logic so does NB flooding. One cooler, one warmer. My point is that you're looking at it wrong. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Saipan Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 (edited) my pont was that if your grapes tell us anything, then by the same logic so does NB flooding. Was it flooding last decade increasingly every year? I just showed you it was friggin' freezing. My point is that you're looking at it wrong. Show me. Edited January 9, 2011 by Saipan Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 You can fool some people some of the time.... but you can't fool vegetation. Grapes (King of the North) went gradually from fully ripe 8 years ago to just little green pellets the size of BBs frozen in the early fall year ago. Shouldn't that be the other way 'round?? As we have already explained - your little corner of the world isn't necessarily representative of NA or the globe. Also, grape growth depends on other factors besides warmth. That's called a proxy. Do you understand ? Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 Name the warm places then. North America is warmer as we have explained to you with the NASA data. It's starting to become clear to me that you are unable to listen to others or change your opinion on anything whatsoever. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Michael Hardner Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 It's starting to become clear to me that you are unable to listen to others or change your opinion on anything whatsoever. Well, not STARTING... I admit. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Saipan Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 North America is warmer as we have explained to you with the NASA data. We did? Warmer than what? It's starting to become clear to me that you are unable to listen to others or change your opinion on anything whatsoever. I'm listening. That doesn't mean I have to agree. Do you agree with me? Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 We did? Warmer than what? I'm listening. That doesn't mean I have to agree. Do you agree with me? Warmer than average. You don't have to agree with opinions, but if I present facts and you ignore them the reason would be: 1 ) You don't like facts. 2 ) You think I'm lying. 3 ) You think NASA is lying. 4 ) ??? Note that I haven't even challenged you on your assertion about your grapes, though I have nothing to verify your assertion. My data (from NASA) is available for review by thousands of scientists, researchers and ordinary people. You don't believe it though. Why not ? Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
Saipan Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 Warmer than average. What average? 10 years, 100, 1000? You don't have to agree with opinions, but if I present facts So do I. Note that I haven't even challenged you on your assertion about your grapes, though I have nothing to verify your assertion. I can post pictures. My data (from NASA) is available for review by thousands of scientists, researchers and ordinary people. So are mine from Environment Canada. Quote
Michael Hardner Posted January 9, 2011 Report Posted January 9, 2011 What average? 10 years, 100, 1000? Yes, any of those. So are mine from Environment Canada. Really ? For what location ? Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
jbg Posted January 10, 2011 Report Posted January 10, 2011 How about it? We had drizzle and +4C in January some 20 years ago, while Florida on the same day had frost and they had to spray oranges. Compare to -14C December 13, 2007 Fredericton, New Brunswick - for example. Look, Saipan, you know I am usually on your side and indeed am on the "climate change" f/k/a "global warming" issue. But there is no question that the lower part of the Arctic Archipalegro, i.e. Baffin Island and nearby islands, and Greenland have been incredibly warm this winter. Iqaluit, Nunavut and Nain, Labrador (in the far north tip) have had few days entirely below freezing and have had plenty of freezing rain and just plain rain, if the Weather Network is at all accurate. I'll grant you that the posted links don't look impressively warm but I have been following the last month there and it has been. The reason is a blocking high pressure system that directs Gulf Stream air north to these areas, and holds Arctic air in place during the U.S. Northeast winter. One doesn't have to believe such creeps as Al Gore or David Suzuki to acknowlege this. Even Farley Mowat's novels, penned during the 1950's and early 1960's refer to common Arctic warmups. The point is, as the AGW alarmists say, weather doesn't prove climate. It is a symptom, however. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Saipan Posted January 10, 2011 Report Posted January 10, 2011 Yes, any of those. For 1000 years it's not warmer now. Medieval warm period was clearly warmer. See Viking farming in Greenland. 100 years possibly, maybe. 1800's were definitely cooler. 10 years open to debate. Depends on location. Quote
Saipan Posted January 10, 2011 Report Posted January 10, 2011 Look, Saipan, you know I am usually on your side and indeed am on the "climate change" f/k/a "global warming" issue. But there is no question that the lower part of the Arctic Archipalegro, i.e. Baffin Island and nearby islands, and Greenland have been incredibly warm this winter. Never argued one location and one winter. Global. As much as part of the Arctic was warmer, Europe for example was cooler. What does it prove? That climate is changing. Just like the weather. It wiped out the mammoths and other animals. Quote
jbg Posted January 10, 2011 Report Posted January 10, 2011 Never argued one location and one winter. Last winter, and much of the 1950's and 1960's were also characterized by similar blocking so I agree with you on that.During those eras the U.S. northeast and Europe also had snowy winters. The New York Times from the last week of December 1969 featured an article about open water in the Arctic. During 2000 on the other hand some idiot in Britain said that kids would have to learn about snow in school. I guess during Decembers of 2009 and 2010 they found out what real life snow was, big time. Similarly our snowfalls were ultra-puny during all of the 1970's winters except 1976-7, 1977-8 and 1978-9, all of the 1980's winters except for 1981-2, a freak storm during February 1983 and a few smallish ones in January 1987. The 1997-8 and 1998-9 winters were particularly snowless. The point is, in general, cold Arctic-warm temperate zones and vice versa. With of course some notable exceptions. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Michael Hardner Posted January 10, 2011 Report Posted January 10, 2011 For 1000 years it's not warmer now. Medieval warm period was clearly warmer. See Viking farming in Greenland. 100 years possibly, maybe. 1800's were definitely cooler. 10 years open to debate. Depends on location. It doesn't matter. The temperature graph shows steady warming now. You can quibble whether the MWP existed or not, but if you know that it existed, then you know enough about the topic to not play dumb as you consistently do. So if you're on here to just annoy people, then just keep doing what you do. Quote Looks like someone has a new patronizing catch phrase ! Michael Hardner
wyly Posted January 10, 2011 Report Posted January 10, 2011 For 1000 years it's not warmer now. Medieval warm period was clearly warmer. See Viking farming in Greenland. and there is farming in Greenland today...according to you because it's colder today than during the MWP that shouldn't be possible... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Jack Weber Posted January 10, 2011 Report Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) No, Jack they're not. Lictor is gone. Saipan is still with us, and now he's here with an option to grow an inch or two... I mean they're in the same place for me... Not worthy of my time,albeit for different reasons,but ignored and irrelevant just the same... Edited January 10, 2011 by Jack Weber Quote The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!
Saipan Posted January 10, 2011 Report Posted January 10, 2011 It doesn't matter. The temperature graph shows steady warming now. Sometimes warming sometimes cooling. As always. Much cooling in Europe. Here it depends on location. Cooling in NW Ontario. Quote
Saipan Posted January 10, 2011 Report Posted January 10, 2011 and there is farming in Greenland today...according to you because it's colder today than during the MWP that shouldn't be possible... I didn't say it's impossible today but now most of Greenland is covered by permanent ice. Vikings left when the cooling started around 1100's Quote
wyly Posted January 10, 2011 Report Posted January 10, 2011 I didn't say it's impossible today but now most of Greenland is covered by permanent ice. Vikings left when the cooling started around 1100's and borrowing your logic, how would the vikings know it was cooling? a thermometer? NASA?... after all you said it was warmer in the MWP than today but yet there is farming in Greenland now...why aren't the farmers of Greenland now leaving saipan, it's cooler than when the vikings were there and they left?... where's the cool down! Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
bloodyminded Posted January 10, 2011 Report Posted January 10, 2011 and there is farming in Greenland today...according to you because it's colder today than during the MWP that shouldn't be possible... You're forgetting the grapes, Wyly. Grapes don't lie. (No, don't ask me, it's not my theory!) Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Saipan Posted January 10, 2011 Report Posted January 10, 2011 and borrowing your logic, how would the vikings know it was cooling? Just like I do when my grapes have no chance to ripe and getting smaller. It doesn't take rocket surgeon to see. And like the Pilgrims knew it's getting colder and colder (we know now as the Little Ice Age) Quote
wyly Posted January 10, 2011 Report Posted January 10, 2011 Just like I do when my grapes have no chance to ripe and getting smaller. It doesn't take rocket surgeon to see. And like the Pilgrims knew it's getting colder and colder (we know now as the Little Ice Age) vikings, pilgrims and saipan's grapes are all climate change experts who would'a guessed...where's the cool down? Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Keepitsimple Posted January 10, 2011 Report Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) There is an argument whether the Midieval Warm Period was warmer than today. The importance of the MWP is that it was warm - and it was followed by the Little Ice Age - a period of cooling that lasted until about 1850.....and that has been followed by another warming period that we are still experiencing. Temperature has gone up and down and up again.....very naturally. Humans have contributed somewhat to the most recent warming but to what extent is still very much open to debate. Alarmists say it is the major driver and will result in catastrophic warming...Sceptics say that it's not a significant driver. Because the earth is warming, it's not surprising that the most recent decades are among the warmest. Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Ice_Age Edited January 10, 2011 by Keepitsimple Quote Back to Basics
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