NEW border and security deal with US

[William Ashley]

Even if that were true, you still can't be objective about denied entry. Take the hint....stay out.

Oh I have no intent of returning even if the US president invites me to Washington unless the attorney general signs off on it, 10 years in jail is a long time simply for trying to travel somewhere. It is madness don't come here or else we'll keep you here for 10 years, this backwards logic that I have yet to really comprehend.

Omigod....is that what this is about? Saving 30 measly dollars in airfare?

Actually it was about $100-200 in airfare savings back then - westjet has some good flight deals to Mexico - but airlines like Mexicana have gone bankrupt. One time it was overall savings for instance in getting a joint US/Canadian transit pass back from Mexico it allowed me to use the return transport costs to travel within Canada so it would of saved me once again a hundred or two hundred dollars plus gave me the chance to travel through a couple more US states in the west, something I have yet to do other than a bit of California and Texas.

Please tell me that the anxiety expressed by Canadians at the US border is deeper than saving on gas and cigarettes.

There are some products sold only in the US also, things like cocopuffs, it is nothing compared to the cool products. Eg. buying a 36 foot sail boat for under 1000$ stellar deal that won't be gotten very often. Buying an originally over $1000 keyboard for $80 not likely to be outdone, even with $200 in gas to pick it up. Snagging deals like those might be found in Canada from time to time but you got to pick em when you got em. Largely my travel to the US is based on oppourtunities that are just deals and I could care less what country they are in, crossing the border is just a minor hurdle on that. It is really unfortunate that CBP stepped in and used legal power on seemingly political grounds to deny my merchantability - I hadn't done the same to the US, so it was the US that started the unfair business practice.

US laws apply at the border....

What the law saying the inclination of the border gaurd even without a violation of law is the law. It is nonsense to even discuss it. It ain't the law it is creating a fantasy and running with it.

Like their statements saying I was going to move to California and collect welfare - I wouldn't even be legally able to do that sort of thing unless I impregnated a woman and had a baby - 9 months later - and there were no reasonable grounds I could see indicating I had a means to stay in the US for 9 months. They said well a mexican can do it so so can you - fact is I wasn't Mexican. That is like saying because Some Saudi blew up the world trade centre you can't come into the US today because you could do what a Saudi did - even if there is no similiarity whatsover, that is like calling a truck a duck. It is absurd, and that is US intelligence that Canada is trying to apply. Talk about pissing off innocent people and disrupting legitimate commerce.

...but you do seem to desire cheaper goods and travel from/through America...interesting.

I did desire.. frankly it will take a lot of corrections on the part of the US before I consider going there again, even after the ban is over. It is always a different story from the last time anyway, it is a waste of my time. I've contacted everyone to be contacted and I got basically no response, just a money grab for even considering things. I'll take my money (even if it is USD) and spend it in another country thank you very much.

In our short visit here it is obvious why you get "Premium Screening" at the US border.

Because the US likes going deeper into debt by wasting resources and paying out fees to corporations at the cost to the American tax payer just to piss off some guy who tried to put their resources into the US economy, and help out people selling things, in a mutually beneficial exchange. Makes no sense to me.

None the less with studies I won't be traveling again likely until next fall at the earliest, if not next winter.. so travel really isn't a concern for me right now.. but 9 months down the road I might care especially if CBP is there to welcome me back at pearson... almost all the flights fly over the US.. so it is precarious if there is any type of need to land, it can cause massive problems for me, and all because they say I wouldn't go back to Canada once I got a taste of California amongst other things (these are the same people that kept me in a federal prison (in CALIFORNIA) for a month while they were letting me leave the US in an expedited (1 month long expedited) manner - and no there was nothing illegal about it except that they claimed I was attempting to stay in the US, even though I had just come out of surgery and was trying to go home to make appointments and grant deadlines) . It is that type of insanity that is frustrating, because there is no recognized blame I can see for limiting my rights. It is that type of mindset we don't need in Canada.

It ain't just interpersonal conflicts arising out of their treatment of me either, it is my overall impression of CBP (and my time viewing their practices while waiting hours and hours and hours at various border points, and their process control which is incredibly horid for confirmation and verification activities when clearing with the many segments - it does not speed clearance the contrary is true) and how integration may negatively effect Canadian Customs. They are also in my opinion at times intentionally provocative and their practices are base - in that they really arn't decent or moral, they are tremendously heartless, more so on the side of penalization when a neutral response is sufficient - they have far more bad apples even than Canadian police forces.

The only benifit to the CBP experience is to make Canadian customs third level screening ultrafast and merited by comparison.

It is not just me either, I've spoken with other people including Canadians who prefer Canadian customs over CBP.

Edited December 17, 2010 by William Ashley

[bush_cheney2004]

Oh I have no intent of returning...

OK...glad that is settled. Sometime people want something very much because they expressly cannot have it. I imagine (and can only imagine) what it must be like to be told you can't go to the big noisy circus just across the street...while others can.

.... something I have yet to do other than a bit of California and Texas.

No big deal...the Pacific Coast Highway is nice.

There are some products sold only in the US also, things like cocopuffs, it is nothing compared to the cool products.

No Cocoa Puffs in Canada? Other stuff you know is for sale in the US but not available in Canada? I know what you mean, because several Canadians have purchased optical instruments from me, lamenting their unavailability at home. Then they want me to declare a low value to beat all the taxes and import fees! Obviously, I cannot relate to such scarcity.

...They said well a mexican can do it so so can you - fact is I wasn't Mexican. That is like saying because Some Saudi blew up the world trade centre you can't come into the US today because you could do what a Saudi did - even if there is no similiarity whatsover, that is like calling a truck a duck. It is absurd, and that is US intelligence that Canada is trying to apply. Talk about pissing off innocent people and disrupting legitimate commerce.

Well, there was the Millennium Bomber....but he wasn't Mexican.

I did desire.. frankly it will take a lot of corrections on the part of the US before I consider going there again, even after the ban is over. It is always a different story from the last time anyway, it is a waste of my time. I've contacted everyone to be contacted and I got basically no response, just a money grab for even considering things. I'll take my money (even if it is USD) and spend it in another country thank you very much.

Krikey...why would you even consider going back after being treated so shabbily? Is the USA a beckoning mistress that you cannot resist, so alluring be her charms ans assets....plus readily available Cocoa Puffs?

Because the US likes going deeper into debt by wasting resources and paying out fees to corporations at the cost to the American tax payer just to piss off some guy who tried to put their resources into the US economy, and help out people selling things, in a mutually beneficial exchange. Makes no sense to me.

That's what the Mexican dope smugglers say too.

and all because they say I wouldn't go back to Canada once I got a taste of California amongst other things (these are the same people that kept me in a federal prison (in CALIFORNIA) for a month while they were letting me leave the US in an expedited (1 month long expedited) manner -

Hmmm...sounds like you were involuntarily deported.

...It is not just me either, I've spoken with other people including Canadians who prefer Canadian customs over CBP.

Again...I can't relate. I've been to Canada several times for miliatry purposes and one shortcut from Detroit to Buffalo. Very uneventful, as it is for thousands of Canadians each day coming to the US. Your case must be.....special.

[bloodyminded]

We had Cocoa Puffs here when I was a child; what happened to my fucking Cocoa Puffs?

[bush_cheney2004]

This is very interesting....is/was the lack of Cocoa Puffs for Canadians symbolic of a lingering resentment for Americans and their wider selection of products? Are Cocoa Puffs seen on American television from across the border just a reminder of what it means to do without....to not be....American? Adding further insult, Cocoa Puffs are sold in Mexico and Latin America.

To: GENERAL MILLS CANADA

For all these years, Cocoa Puffs have been my favourite cereal.

Every single time we go to the states, my parents bring them back.

I've tried, endlessly to contact GENERAL MILLS, and they keep telling me the same thing,

"Contact the CANADIAN SECTOR" and every time I do, what do they tell me?

They tell me about NESQUIK cereal.

Nesquik cereal is the most putrid, disgusting cereal I have ever tasted.

It does not even compare to the rich, chocolatey "cuckoo" flavour that Cocoa Puffs is FAMOUS FOR.

So please, Sign this petition and help me bring this delightful cereal to Canada.

Sincerely,

The Undersigned

http://www.petitiononline.com/cocoapuf/petition.html

[Topaz]

After searching on the web for more info. on this, I did find this piece and I think ALL Canadians should read it. I would hope the media would publish this kind of info. in the papers. One thing I that I found that Canadians my not like was that IF an attack happen at the border, the US military takes charge on BOTH sides of the border. http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=22375

[bush_cheney2004]

After searching on the web for more info. on this, I did find this piece and I think ALL Canadians should read it. I would hope the media would publish this kind of info. in the papers. One thing I that I found that Canadians my not like was that IF an attack happen at the border, the US military takes charge on BOTH sides of the border.

This is not a new concept....during the October Crisis, American forces were on alert at Fort Drum and ready to cross the 1000 Island Bridge as part of the War Measures Act. The FLQ commies wanted to bomb the Statue of Liberty in New York!

[William Ashley]

Krikey...why would you even consider going back after being treated so shabbily?

I don't find issue with all Americans or even all DHS branch employees, the fact is my qualm isn't with America it is with the man. I think many Americans could also identify with the same sense of controls overriding their freedoms, even when they havn't broken any laws but are still restricted on political grounds. Bad decisions by Americans doesn't make America an evil place, it makes the people making evil decisions evil decision makers.

If it is of benefit to me in the future I won't hesitate to travel through the US if it is a better option weighing everything including the chance of border problems. I'm not jaded to the point of damaging my own position for spite, that is idiotic behaviour. A benefit is a benefit even if perhaps not me being generous it doesn't cancle out me taking the benefit. The difference is before I was more prone to rewarding benefit, now I have less inclination to do so because I can't reward people who have it out to get me.

That's what the Mexican dope smugglers say too.

It is funny you mention mexican dope smugglers when the first person in Mexico to try to sell dope to me was an American from Washington.

Hmmm...sounds like you were involuntarily deported.

No I requested to leave, I offered to provide transport - my requests were ignored and instead I was expedited removed. There was no involutary situation whatsoever - also I was never ported as I was never "in the US" I was in legal limbo mearly in US custody but not admited entry to the US. But no I wasn't involuntary. I requested regularly for access to leave and they held me for many weeks.

Expedited removal is the procedure by which immigration officers may summarily determine that an alien is not admissible - this was based on them stating that I intended to live and work in the US - and this was not the case. Even though there was a "paid work plan" at the place they were holding me that everyone was invited to participate in..... You must understand my only reason for seeking legal entry at a legal POE was to return home after a medical procedure I just had in Mexico - and then they accused me of trying to live and work in the US then held me there contrary my wishes and offered me paid work.

Aliens who are expelled from the country through the expedited removal process are barred from re-entering the U.S. for a period of 5 years

Expedited removal is the process by which a non-U.S. citizen can be denied entry and physically removed from a U.S. Port of Entry (“POE”) upon seeking admission to the United States. Orders of expedited removal are issued by U.S. Customs and Border Protection (“CBP”) officials at a POE. The expedited removal process can only be used in certain situations when CBP officers have determined that an individual is inadmissible for one, or a combination of, the following reasons:

--- the reason for this is because as immigration explained - I'm not an ordinary Canadian so I need to apply for a visa because I don't get B1/B2 status because I wasn't married with a mortgage and normal persons job.

Your case must be.....special.

I don't know all I have is my A#.. they won't give me any information. And the next time, it is always a different story from the last time.

Also information like

"Individuals facing expedited removal do not have a right to counsel or to a hearing before an immigration judge. CBP officials at the U.S. POE conduct the expedited removal process completely and exclusively. The process is usually completed within a matter of hours."

This took weeks... and my status was "able to change" even after an expedited removal determination was made... there decision to be finalized need consular agreement acorrding to them and approval from washington DC.. Canada however stated it was purely US policy and didn't involve consular action. So even what is being told is leaving people in the dark.

CBP tends to just say - we don't do that here, when you try to apply the law instead of arbitrary decisions.

This the same sort of reason why this same brand in Canada is an issue for me. I don't want to have to deal with that tripe when returning to Canada from a trip. Or even have other innocent people have to deal with that same type of abuse because of political policing.

Edited December 17, 2010 by William Ashley

[bush_cheney2004]

Expedited removal is the process by which a non-U.S. citizen can be denied entry....

Right...this reads verbatim from the content here:

http://www.borderimmigrationlawyer.com/expedited-removal/

....This is sort of a reason why this same brand in Canada is an issue for me. I don't want to have to deal with that try when returning to Canada from a trip.

Jesus Christ....all I can say is that you must really like Cocoa Puffs !!!

[William Ashley]

Jesus Christ....all I can say is that you must really like Cocoa Puffs !!!

Perhaps my favorite - them and granola with raisons and nuts.

Nestle always makes me think of rabbit turds... they are still a good substitute..

gorilla munch -- in Canada is also a top scorer - a little like corn pops I think.

Chocokrispies from mexico are really good with orange juice instead of milk or orange or peach flavoured yolap (yogurt) (most yogurts work with chocos)

Edited December 17, 2010 by William Ashley

[bush_cheney2004]

Perhaps my favorite - them and granola with raisons and nuts.

Nestle always makes me think of rabit turds... they are still a good substitute..

Agreed....looks just like bunny poop. I prefer the lighter, fruity taste of Trix...maybe General Mills Trix cereal are available in Canada?

gorilla munch -- in Canada is also a top scorer - a little like corn pops I think.

Gorilla Munch is just more American crap!

[bloodyminded]

This is very interesting....is/was the lack of Cocoa Puffs for Canadians symbolic of a lingering resentment for Americans and their wider selection of products? Are Cocoa Puffs seen on American television from across the border just a reminder of what it means to do without....to not be....American?

No.

[Shwa]

No.

The irony being that it isn't just the selection of products that is getting 'wider' in America.

[Saipan]

I think many Americans could also identify with the same sense of controls overriding their freedoms, even when they havn't broken any laws but are still restricted on political grounds. Bad decisions by Americans doesn't make America an evil place, it makes the people making evil decisions evil decision makers.

Would you even contemplate visiting Cuba or China?

[GostHacked]

If anyone wants a comparison about the borders and security, look at the US/Mexico border compared to the US/Canadian border.

[Battletoads]

After searching on the web for more info. on this, I did find this piece and I think ALL Canadians should read it. I would hope the media would publish this kind of info. in the papers. One thing I that I found that Canadians my not like was that IF an attack happen at the border, the US military takes charge on BOTH sides of the border. http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=22375

Seem to imply that the conservatives trust american troops over our own...

[bush_cheney2004]

Seem to imply that the conservatives trust american troops over our own...

Well we know that the Liberals certainly do!

[William Ashley]

Would you even contemplate visiting Cuba or China?

$$$ - Cuba for sure - for the most part. (I might like to avoid lengthy stays in some parts of Cuba.

China I'm very edgy for, but I attend the university of waterloo, I'm guessing its not much different.

(bad joke. I'm actually not rascist but it was a good joke - the whole UWaterloo is too asian thing is totally not the situation. Asians are great. They are just like Canadians with at times less knowledge of English and that's ok, actually that is part of my inspiration on being an ESL teacher - to help communication amongst people to unite everyone by providing understanding and comprehension - the fact is many of those people are super intelligent - future professionals - and these are the same people that are the leaders of tomorrow - the world is far more alike than not - I have nothing to fear in visiting cuba or china, both countries are facing adverse challenges, but are generally filled with very good people.)

http://iwarrior.uwaterloo.ca/2010/11/17/are-we-actually-%E2%80%98too-asian%E2%80%99-a-look-into-the-maclean%E2%80%99s-article-and-the-stir-behind-it/

I think China has a lot of great things about it, but at the present time I'm a little "concerned" about my travel prospects there. Particularly the fact I have only a very very very minor knowledge of Chinese. I'm simply not prepared for China - while I do know a moderate amount of Spanish to survive with.

I would go to both countries but I'd probably only go to China if it was a paid trip. I'd consider teaching English there also, but I have a lot of Chinese to learn (perhaps another 3 or 4 years) before that might be realistic.

Edited December 28, 2010 by William Ashley

[Saipan]

$$$ - Cuba for sure - for the most part.

It would make lot more sense to visit Chile under Pinochet.

China I'm very edgy for, but I attend the university of waterloo, I'm guessing its not much different.

How many people had their heads blown off in U of W?

http://www.friendsoftibet.org/main/execution.html

[William Ashley]

How many people had their heads blown off in U of W?

Officially or unofficially?

[Saipan]

Check the link.

[William Ashley]

Check the link.

What about it?

We can be compasionate for unjust loses but substantiation or rationalization is unknown. (meaning it is really f'ed up, and I don't know if the photos are authentic the situation behind it, etc.. the fact is (and it is an unsubstantiated fact), it was done (presumably), you can't change that. It is about now, not yesterday. We can feel for wrongs humanity has commited but this is a world of wrong, and unless impowered to stop them, one is forced to live with that realization. Martyrdom for the unknown is foolish (this doesn't mean we can't prepare for the potential). Sounds cliche no.. the bottom line is --- I make it a point not to interfere in foreign politics, the US has the death penalty too (with Canadians on death row), other countries have the death penalty too... thousands of people die as innocent civlians in war.. including ones Canadians are killing them in. There are victims everywhere.. we are only responsible for our own choices. A cause is a good thing, I think causes should start in your home, in your nieghbour hood etc.. once those places are "cause free" you can take it up from there. I'm not at an international level. It is none of my business unless it involves an international dispute or positive non criticism or attack based situation - positive politics rather than antagonism in an already conflicted world.

I support the death penalty. I think it should be done on a consensual basis for all crimes. That is if the convict requests it, they get it. (it is more indepth such as time frames or preregistration before the sentence can be carried out - immediately if they preregister they may have to wait for statements to be taken and "signed off on" (if appeal isn't granted) if they don't or default at 2 to 3 months. (I think laws that infringe on liberty need to be representative of actual uncorrectable harm or unreconcilable positions relating to ongoing public safety - I think most crimes are political or economic crimes, not crimes deserving loss of liberty and freedom - restitution and communication should be able to resolve issues and mistakes in a mature society.)

Biological life is just a part of my world view, the spirtual is more important than the physical. It is just an interim phase in existence. We all die. Order is just a means of making our time on earth more bearable rather than facing the extremes of knowledge of existence - and incapacity in a limited world where harm exists - and desire to acheive more than what one has - and where a force of opposition acts to deprive fullfillment of ones wishes.

The death penalty is far more compasionate than torture and unjust imprisonment.

The death penalty preserves the individuals humanity uncorupted of the corruption and inhumanity of government - in depriving freedom and liberty of the individual.

God is the only true judge. Man is a political beast. People who have yet to have their livelyhood destroyed can't understand what the criminal justice system can do to good people and that is a shame, death is far better than perpetuating a life of wrong and tainting an otherwise good spirit.

I live in an unjust world where not all laws reflect my beleif in the world. I'm not about to start conflicts though, and the ones that do come to my door I try to peacefully resolve.

I do have my own margin of self control, but your post feels like nothing but an attack on China and not an attack on the issue.

I wouldn't have died with my back to them if I didn't want to die.

No earplugs? Maybe she wasn't the only victim.

Edited December 29, 2010 by William Ashley

[Esq]

After months of secret negotiations, Prime Minister Stephen Harper and U.S. President Barack Obama are expected Friday to authorize the most sweeping overhaul of Canada-U.S. border and security cooperation in decades.

The agreement to be signed at a White House meeting will open the way to a bilateral pact with the potential to give Washington a much bigger say in Canada’s border security, immigration controls and information-sharing with American law agencies.

I'm appalled that a take note meeting on Egypt is being held but none on This Security pact the press is already saying will be signed at the next meeting coming up very shortly, TOMMOROW ACTUALLY between the PM and Obama.

Agreeing to things like changing immigration law really does need Parliamentary approval - we are stepping into a whole new world, with the PM overriding parliamentary laws - Canadian laws.

It is unfathomable that Canadians could accept the PM ruling without any parliamentary consent on issues like border security, immigration, and trade.

Laws were made in parliament for a reason, and for the PM to change those without parliament is truely concerning. It is illegal and unconstitutional.

Canadians are within a day of seeing rule of law in Canada disappear to dictatorship. It is easier to see values of freedom and democracy when they don't exist anymore in Canada.

Edited February 3, 2011 by Esq

[Esq]

I'm listening live now........

....en francais premierment

je suis tres concerne

je pense c'est toute agreable... de tout l'agrement.

"U.S.-Canada Regulatory Cooperation Council (RCC)"

A “Beyond the Border Working Group” composed of representatives from both governments will be established to implement and oversee work on the action plan.

this sounds a lot like what William Ashley's post was at the begining of this thread.

http://media.thestar.topscms.com/acrobat/95/e7/631bb42f4aff8d3c8ec59dabdbbf.pdf

Edited February 4, 2011 by Esq

[The_Squid]

.... with the PM overriding parliamentary laws - Canadian laws.

How so?

The government can do a lot of things without needing to pass legislation.

I don't have an issue with better access across our border for goods and people. Look at the Europeans. Many of their borders allow for completely unhindered travel between countries. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area

However, our gov't doesn't take border security seriously. Our border "guards" are simply tax collectors. THeir main duty seems to be collecting the tax/duty on that extra bottle of wine I bought in the USA. If there is a report of someone dangerous apporaching the border, our "guards" flee. border guards run away

Their main focus should be securing our border from guns and other contraband coming from the USA, not searching my vehicle to ensure they get that $6.97 in tax.

I don't think we should ever have open access like in Europe, since our laws are so different (guns, and, one day, drugs). But it doesn't need to be as burdensome to travel between our countries.

Edited February 4, 2011 by The_Squid

[Esq]

How so?

The government can do a lot of things without needing to pass legislation.

I'll have to wait and see if anything enters the public domain from the RCC. This has been ongoing for a while.

Specific things i have heard are 'preventing' individuals from entering or leaving north america. Clearly a contradiction of Canadian law.

I don't have an issue with better access across our border for goods and people. Look at the Europeans. Many of their borders allow for completely unhindered travel between countries. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area

Canada and the US are not as integrated as the EU. EU individuals can work in any EU country without a need for a visa. They also have no internal borders.

The US would never reciprocate this to Canada. The relationship is not the same. The porous border is only for the elites, not for the common people. Removing common peoples rights for more access for the elites is contrary to what I support. I believe in the people as a whole not the uberclass exclusive. It goes back to the common rights of man.

However, our gov't doesn't take border security seriously. Our border "guards" are simply tax collectors. THeir main duty seems to be collecting the tax/duty on that extra bottle of wine I bought in the USA. If there is a report of someone dangerous apporaching the border, our "guards" flee. border guards run away

You arn't stopped through 3 levels of screening every time you come back from a trip like myself I suppose. I don't think this has anything to do with taxes.

Their main focus should be securing our border from guns and other contraband coming from the USA, not searching my vehicle to ensure they get that $6.97 in tax.

I disagree completely. They should be insuring people entering Canada are not a risk to Canadians, and that Canadians are allowed into the country. Public safety is a concern, while you can turn away foreign public safety risks, you need to take Canadian public safety risks even if it means quarentine. canadian being a canadian, foreign being someone not from Canada.

I don't think we should ever have open access like in Europe, since our laws are so different (guns, and, one day, drugs). But it doesn't need to be as burdensome to travel between our countries.

I think we should have open access with safegaurds... honestly I don't beleive in government, I think it is a mechanism to remove rights.

It is fine to protect people, and it is fine to organize society, but infringing on private individuals business or rights is totally contradictory to good government. That is part of the problem here, both states support the limitation of private persons.

I do support a strong immigration system based on public safety principles, and economic protections. But I also beleive in visa free travel, and the right of anyone to employment should someone choose to employ them.

I don't like nationalism getting in the way of business, but I support nationalism as a protection in protecting nations.

Canadian resources are Canadian - it should be Canadians divying up and deciding how those are used.

Likewise it is canadian owned land, people need to pay property taxes to the canadian public, administered by the government.

These are principles I support. Most everything else should be left to business.

I cherish a rebith of british north america as opposed to bilateralism.

Once upon a time north america was free in mobility, we can thank the natives for that

more or less I think if we just went back to 1760 or so everything would be ok.

In this sense I support a commonwealth premise. But heavily support regional control of resources to those who live in those areas on a permanent basis. Especially when use of those resouces effect or change the living environment. These provisional controls are vital to peace and good order of soceity. People need to be protected from exploitations while not surrendering their liberties.

Edited February 4, 2011 by Esq