Is it fair for seasonal wokers to get EI benefit repeatedly?

[Guest TrueMetis]

Then the price for their product is too low, perhaps ? Why should the people of Canada have to subsidize fish fishing ?

They aren't EI is being collected when they aren't working, and if they didn't have to they wouldn't hence sealers. Unfortunately they're aren't enough off-season jobs for all the fisherman.

If it's something you can learn in a week or two it's low skilled. End of story. The fact you have to remember to tie yourself off is beside the point. Window washers have to remember that too, and that's not a high skilled profession either. BTW, how many pitched roofs are 100 feet off the ground? I mean, really. Twenty feet is more like it.

I used to be a clerk. It took months of working and learning to get the hang of the software, and years before you actually mastered it. And that job wasn't considered to be particularly highly skilled.

Well it's a good thing it takes a lot longer than 2 weeks to learn to be a roofer.

My link

Most roofers learn their skills on the job by working as helpers for experienced roofers and by taking classes, including safety training offered by their employers; some complete 3-year apprenticeships.

Education and training. A high school education, or its equivalent, is helpful and so are courses in mechanical drawing and basic mathematics. Although most workers learn roofing as helpers for experienced workers, some roofers train through 3-year apprenticeship programs administered by local union-management committees representing roofing contractors and locals of the United Union of Roofers, Waterproofers, and Allied Workers. Apprenticeship programs usually include at least 2,000 hours of paid long-term on-the-job training each year, plus a minimum of 144 hours of classroom instruction a year in tools and their use, arithmetic, safety, and other topics. On-the-job training for apprentices is similar to the training given to helpers, but an apprenticeship program is more structured and comprehensive. Apprentices, for example, also learn to dampproof and waterproof walls.

Trainees start by carrying equipment and material and erecting scaffolds and hoists. Within 2 or 3 months, they are taught to measure, cut, and fit roofing materials and, later, to lay asphalt or fiberglass shingles. Because some roofing materials are used infrequently, such as solar tiles, it can take several years to get experience working on all types of roofing.

Other qualifications. Physical condition and strength, along with good balance, are essential for roofers. They cannot be afraid of heights. Experience with metal-working is helpful for workers who install metal roofing. Usually, apprentices must be at least 18 years old.

Advancement. Roofers may advance to become supervisors or estimators for a roofing contractor or become independent contractors themselves.

Again you really underestimate how difficult roofing is.

ETA and let's see your government working ass figure something like this out if it's so low skilled. And that's just shingles there are a lot harder roofing materials to work with.

Edited November 20, 2010 by TrueMetis

[bill_barilko]

The fact you have to remember to tie yourself off is beside the point....

Your clerkish nonsense does you no credit-when was the last time you saw a roofer tie himself off?

FYI-No one does that-they work free all the time.

If you can crank your stiff old neck around to actually watch roofers doing carpentry on a pitched surface you might actually see it.

...how many pitched roofs are 100 feet off the ground? I mean, really. Twenty feet is more like it..

Never been up a ladder either I see-to be expected.

[Michael Hardner]

They aren't EI is being collected when they aren't working, and if they didn't have to they wouldn't hence sealers. Unfortunately they're aren't enough off-season jobs for all the fisherman.

EI is collected when they aren`t working ?

[Guest TrueMetis]

EI is collected when they aren`t working ?

Uh ya Fishermen are seasonal they go months without working every year.

[Michael Hardner]

Uh ya Fishermen are seasonal they go months without working every year.

Ok, so they collect EI. That is the point - that they don`t make enough from the industry to live without government assistance. The economics of it is bad, but the politics is great.

If my company decided to lay me off every summer, and get the government to pay me then they could save some money, I`m sure.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Ok, so they collect EI. That is the point - that they don`t make enough from the industry to live without government assistance. The economics of it is bad, but the politics is great.

If my company decided to lay me off every summer, and get the government to pay me then they could save some money, I`m sure.

Well it's a little be different in that presumably you would still legally be able to work for that company during the summers they laid you off. While commercial fishing is only allowed during the designated season. It's part of the reason why the government is defending activities they can do in the off season, like sealing, so much.

[dre]

...and our food would be cheaper, and our taxes would be lower.

And our economy would be smaller, and probably have a million or so less jobs in it.

[Michael Hardner]

And our economy would be smaller, and probably have a million or so less jobs in it.

Other jobs would appear, though, from the savings that resulted. The money could be spent on other things, as has always happened when economies change.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Other jobs would appear, though, from the savings that resulted. The money could be spent on other things, as has always happened when economies change.

Government would never allow it though, relying on imports for all of our food is to much of a risk.

[dre]

Other jobs would appear, though, from the savings that resulted. The money could be spent on other things, as has always happened when economies change.

Other jobs would appear.

Without domestic food production the price of food would be volatile like oil, and we would burn a mountain of fossil fuels moving it around. And the reality is that unless other western countries ended agrosubsidies at the same time, we would just end up buying all our food from the subsidized US industry.

Other jobs would appear, though, from the savings that resulted.

If we keep going full steam down that road, theres a lot less types of jobs that CAN appear. Theres almost nothing we do or can do that cant be done a lot cheaper somewhere else.

[Shwa]

Ok, so they collect EI. That is the point - that they don`t make enough from the industry to live without government assistance. The economics of it is bad, but the politics is great.

If my company decided to lay me off every summer, and get the government to pay me then they could save some money, I`m sure.

Why just seasonally though? Major auto manufacturers routinely lay off good portions of their workforce while the factories are being retooled for one reason or another, a new product line or for supply problems or other sector wide influences. And more often that not these major manufacturers have a sweet deal that will either quickly bring EI to their laid-off workforce or top up any payments the company makes to them during the lay-off.

[Argus]

Your clerkish nonsense does you no credit-when was the last time you saw a roofer tie himself off?

FYI-No one does that-they work free all the time.

If you can crank your stiff old neck around to actually watch roofers doing carpentry on a pitched surface you might actually see it.

Never been up a ladder either I see-to be expected.

I don't need to go up ladders, but yes, I've been on my roof. And I've watched roofers. I know a couple. It just isn't that complicated.

[Guest TrueMetis]

I don't need to go up ladders, but yes, I've been on my roof. And I've watched roofers. I know a couple. It just isn't that complicated.

Why do I have the feeling that all you've ever seen is basic shingle roofing? Do you even know how many different types of roofing material there are? Each one requiring a different way of roofing it.

[eyeball]

Then the price for their product is too low, perhaps ? Why should the people of Canada have to subsidize fish fishing ?

Probably because the people of Canada left it up to DFO alone to take care of fish habitat.

There was a time when salmon fishermen around here could earn their UI in the off season by enhancing salmon habitat, counting spawners and help maintain the resource they depended on for their livelihoods.

There are still thousands of km of salmon streams that need restoration but given there's hardly any fishermen or salmon left now who cares?

[bill_barilko]

I don't need to go up ladders, but yes, I've been on my roof. And I've watched roofers. I know a couple. It just isn't that complicated.

You know exactly SFA-that is painfully obvious.

You claim to know roofing but in fact had NFI that roofers never tie themselves off.

How could a prodigy like yourself make such an obvious error?

[Jack Weber]

You know exactly SFA-that is painfully obvious.

You claim to know roofing but in fact had NFI that roofers never tie themselves off.

How could a prodigy like yourself make such an obvious error?

Mainly because he's a self absorbed,self-admitted elitist...

I suspect the real reason he feels roofing,or probably any trade for that amtter,is relatively easy is because he thinks all labour such as that is menial and beneath him...

The real reason is he most likely does'nt have the intellectual or mechanical aptitude to operate a can opener...

Edited November 21, 2010 by Jack Weber

[Guest TrueMetis]

Mainly because he's a self absorbed,self-sdmitted elitist...

I suspect the real reason he feels roofing,or probably any trade for that amtter,is relatively easy is because he thinks all labour such as that is menial and beneath him...

The real reason is he most likely does'nt have the intellectual or mechanical aptitude to operate a can opener...

I'm also betting he's not strong enough to do any of it either. Shingle bundles are heavy.

[Jack Weber]

I'm also betting he's not strong enough to do any of it either. Shingle bundles are heavy.

You better believe it...

A guy my father knows(My Dad is 69) still works for his own company...He was doing a roof for the lady that lives beside me..

I watched him pick up not one but TWO(2) bundles,throw them over his shoulder,and climb up a ladder to place them on the roof...

I could'nt believe it!!!

I knew this guy was strong,but not THAT STRONG!!!!...

Edited November 21, 2010 by Jack Weber

[Guest TrueMetis]

You better believe it...

A guy my father knows(My Dad is 69) still works for his own company...He was doing a roof for the lady that lives beside me..

I watched him pick up not one but TWO(2) bundles,throw them over his shoulder,and climb up a ladder to place them on the roof...

I could'nt believe it!!!

I knew this guy was strong,but not THAT STRONG!!!!...

I was helping my brother tear up the roof on his house and then bring up the shingles. I could barely lift them, but he was doing no problem. (It didn't help that I've got some issues with heights and it felt like I might fall through the plywood) Like your guy he was doing it two at a time. Fortunately if things ever get bad my brother fights like a fool, no caution or defence at all.

[Michael Hardner]

Government would never allow it though, relying on imports for all of our food is to much of a risk.

What was the number quoted before - 80% of our food is imported ?

Would 90% be that much riskier really ?

[Guest TrueMetis]

What was the number quoted before - 80% of our food is imported ?

Would 90% be that much riskier really ?

I didn't say it made sense, this is the government we're talking about.

[Michael Hardner]

If we keep going full steam down that road, theres a lot less types of jobs that CAN appear. Theres almost nothing we do or can do that cant be done a lot cheaper somewhere else.

If people have more disposable income, then that money can go to other services.

[Michael Hardner]

Why just seasonally though? Major auto manufacturers routinely lay off good portions of their workforce while the factories are being retooled for one reason or another, a new product line or for supply problems or other sector wide influences. And more often that not these major manufacturers have a sweet deal that will either quickly bring EI to their laid-off workforce or top up any payments the company makes to them during the lay-off.

That's another example.

[Shwa]

That's another example.

But in both cases - the seasonal or the manufacturing support, the economics of it is good since it keeps a specialty trained workforce in place for when the work picks up. A workforce such as this will usually give much more in taxes than they will take in EI benefits. Furthermore, while they are getting EI, they are still supporting all the secondary service industry workers as well.

[Michael Hardner]

But in both cases - the seasonal or the manufacturing support, the economics of it is good since it keeps a specialty trained workforce in place for when the work picks up. A workforce such as this will usually give much more in taxes than they will take in EI benefits. Furthermore, while they are getting EI, they are still supporting all the secondary service industry workers as well.

Ok, but is that the case for every industry that is supported in this way ?