Before Moving To Canada....

[Guest American Woman]

But that is the crux of the matter...because the Canadian identity is so often associated with and defined by not-American, the resentment is unavoidable. So the idea of more tolerance and "multiculturalism" begs the question of "compared to what?", and too often the "what" is implicitly (and explicitly) America and Americans. Anti-Americanism is lost in translation because it is a given in the equation.

I have to agree that the Canadian identity too often appears to be associated with and defined as "not American," and I know there are a lot of Canadians who are frustrated by it, so again, it's not "all" by any means. But a perfect example is the perceived ignorance Americans have of Canada. I've been interested in learning more about Canada, but so often the learning experience has been met with frustration. For example, books I've read on Canada along the 'everything you need to know about being Canadian' line, hoping to learn more about Canadians, are 80% along the line of 'we're not this or that....' with 'this or that' being the U.S./Americans. I would love to read a book that just has to do with Canadians, with no references to the U.S. at all. I've ordered the books on Canada through Amazon, so this is one of the suggested readings I was emailed: The U.S. of Eh? but I'm no longer interested in reading about Canada in relation to the U.S.

Having said that, I do believe that some comparisons are unavoidable based on the realities of both countries/nationalities. I'm not sure that has to necessarily lead to anti-Americanism, though. I can appreciate some differences between our nations and not feel negatively about either of our countries. "Different" doesn't automatically translate to "better" or "worse." I do think anti-Americanism is at an all time high in Canada right now, and it's leading to Canada/too many Canadians being too tolerant in the effort to be seen as "different from the U.S.," and by that, I think tolerance too often means accepting intolerance. I also think that's going to change as I think just as many Canadians are becoming frustrated with it as Americans were frustrated with the way things were heading in the U.S.

The bottom line is both of our nations are fine nations and we are fortunate to enjoy life in our respective countries, but as the author says, if an American is 'escaping' to Canada to find a kinder, gentler, more caring nation, it's likely not going to be the reality. If one is moving for other reasons, fine. But if one is moving for the reasons she did, for the reasons so many Americans say they are going to move there, then it's best to think twice so one isn't blindly making the move. And I agree with her.

[dizzy]

....and this is just as her piece reports.

Except that she assigns herself no fault for engaging in the very same stereotyping she claims herself to be a victim of. That's the weak link in her argument.

Nope...I would just think you were Canadian!

And in doing so, you would prove my point!

[dizzy]

That's a matter of opinion. As far as Americans living in Canada, she most definitely gives food for thought, which is the intention of the OP as I see it.

I don't question that it provides one perspective. I'm challenging the OP that this presents the reality.

As has been pointed out already, her expectations were based on more than her "imagination." If it were just her expectation, based on just her imagination, there would be no need for the OP and I doubt it would have been written.

When I say "imagined", I'm talking about the stereotyped expectations she came with into Canada. I certainly don't believe she alone holds them or that there isn't some truth to them. The best lies always hold a kernel of truth. In this case, I believe it may be more than a kernel, but considerably less than she or BC claim.

I think it's more like it's evidence that a positive stereotype can be just as incorrect as a negative one.

Either way, my point remains. Stereotyping provides us with a tool to make a functional reference when detail is not required but, when one of our stereotypes fails, it's usually evidence that we didn't evolve our thinking to meet the situation required.

Again, you miss the point. If that is indeed how the U.S. is perceived, if that's how America/Americans try to present it, I know of no one who would leave Canada in disgust and move to the U.S. because Americans are "glory whores" and "black people are inarticulate." But. If there were such Canadians, if they did move to the U.S. hoping to find that, and they knew of other Canadians who wanted to move to the U.S. hoping to find that, then I would have no problem with someone writing an OP telling Canadians to think twice before moving to the U.S. for those reasons -- because it's not the reality. And I wouldn't think the author was an asshole for doing so.

I didn't miss the point. I was simply providing another example to demonstrate that a complement can be an insult when it forces someone to conform to an stereotype.

The woman moved to Canada for a very specific reason. To escape what she didn't like about the U.S. She thought Canada would be a haven of sorts in comparison, based on the stereotypes. She didn't expect to encounter the attitude she did to the degree that she did, so she's telling other Americans to think twice before moving to Canada for the reasons that she did. And you think that makes her an asshole?

She, herself, admits that she actually came for a job, but used that opportunity to build the pretense that she was escaping the big bad bush. I think that captures a little bit of the person behind the article.

I can't understand why Canadians in this thread are so upset that I'm saying I find Canada to be no different from the U.S./any other nations. The fact that they are seems to prove that they want Canada to have the reputation that it is. Seems to me they are quite content to push the idea, except when it comes to Americans. And again, that totally and completely backs up the author's point. I think it's a good thing to "think twice" before believing stereotypes and making a move based on those expectations. No matter who/what country is involved.

This woman was disappointed in the reality of living in Canada based on the reasons she moved there and she wrote about it in hopes that other Americans like her would not blindly make the move as she had. Furthermore, many, many Canadians speak their minds regarding their thoughts on Americans based on nothing. At least her thoughts are based on her experiences. Yet she's being portrayed as an "asshole." Again, it just adds validity to what she is saying.

FTR, I put the word asshole out there to reference the stereotypes I was presenting. There certainly was no anger in this or my other statements here. Minus one or two contributors, I think this is healthy debate... even BC is moving beyond his normal trolling tendencies in favour of thoughtful opinion I certainly don't think that the writer nor any of the contributing americans here are assholes.

We have no disagreement that Canadians are just like Americans on this front (i.e self-aggrandizing, demeaning of the other) and that most countries that share borders project the same kind of rhetoric. It's part of the fun of being neighbours! It's also the crux of my point, that this is a normal experience, so she was short-sighted to not expect it.

[bush_cheney2004]

Having said that, I do believe that some comparisons are unavoidable based on the realities of both countries/nationalities. I'm not sure that has to necessarily lead to anti-Americanism, though. I can appreciate some differences between our nations and not feel negatively about either of our countries. "Different" doesn't automatically translate to "better" or "worse."

I agree that this is most certainly the case, except that when it is not the circumstances are often high profile, such as in the case of Canadian federal elections, with dire threats of creeping Americanism. Now it's gotten to the point where just news television format that parallels Sky/Fox News for Canada is all the rage.

I do think anti-Americanism is at an all time high in Canada right now, and it's leading to Canada/too many Canadians being too tolerant in the effort to be seen as "different from the U.S.," and by that, I think tolerance too often means accepting intolerance. I also think that's going to change as I think just as many Canadians are becoming frustrated with it as Americans were frustrated with the way things were heading in the U.S.

I think it will get worse before it gets better....it is also being projected to/because of policies for Israel.

But if one is moving for the reasons she did, for the reasons so many Americans say they are going to move there, then it's best to think twice so one isn't blindly making the move. And I agree with her.

On balance, I think the author's effort was genuine, well supported by personal experience, and reflective of her own naivete and discovery of what it means to be an American living in Canada.

[waldo]

But if one is moving for the reasons she did, for the reasons so many Americans say they are going to move there, then it's best to think twice so one isn't blindly making the move. And I agree with her.

the reasons she did??? The OP speaks of a move for 'career reasons'... a 2000 move. As she's still living/working in Toronto, apparently, she has a tremendous tolerance level for her interpreted anti-Americanism... soon to be over a decade strong! Of course, after such a lengthy period of time, one might also infer she prefers working in/around the Canadian health system... either that... or her tolerance levels are considerably broader than being spoken of - hey?

[Guest American Woman]

Minus one or two contributors, I think this is healthy debate...

I'm short on time at the moment (more shoveling awaits), so I'll just respond to this comment right now with a question -- which one of these responses did you have in mind when you made your observation?

As evidenced by this board, probably because they're [Americans are] long-winded, repetitive, and annoying.

Well, at least the two in this thread. I already had one on ignore, and now that the other one is back, I think she'll go there too.

Once they go into the ether,the silence is deafening!!!

...people like you and AW ... clearly dont like Canadians much

People just like you and AW except with the reverse perspective. Every nation is stuck with a few of you, but like I said, youre a statistical anomaly, and not worthy of much consideration.

Like I said... you, AW, and other Canadians and Americans who hate on each other are an irrelevant statistical anomaly.

I said nothing rude, nothing derogatory, nothing at all - ever - to so much as insinuate that I don't like Canadians, much less "hate" on them. Quite the opposite, actually. I've said nothing to warrant being put on ignore. I've said nothing that warrants being insulted as "long-winded, repetitive, and annoying."

As I said, the majority of posters responding to me/about me have just reinforced what the author of this OP has said. While I have had a good discussion with you in this thread, and I appreciate it, you are in the minority.

[Guest American Woman]

I don't question that it provides one perspective. I'm challenging the OP that this presents the reality.

It was her reality. Which leads me to another observation that I find interesting: when a Muslim gives his perspective of life in the U.S., it doesn't get questioned the way this woman presenting her experiences is under scrutiny/criticism. So again, that adds validity to the author's claim.

When I say "imagined", I'm talking about the stereotyped expectations she came with into Canada. I certainly don't believe she alone holds them or that there isn't some truth to them. The best lies always hold a kernel of truth. In this case, I believe it may be more than a kernel, but considerably less than she or BC claim.

I'm only going to address her claims because they are based on her life in Canada; her experiences. She's very open about her expectations, expectations that other Americans share. That's the reason for her OP, as I see it. It isn't to bash Canada/Canadians. It's to give other Americans who feel as she did food for thought.

I had spent years of my life feeling like I wasn't a typical American and wishing I could be Canadian. I wanted to live in a country that was not a superpower, a country I believe to have made the right choices about fairness, human rights and the social compact.

She goes on to say:

So I could certainly identify with the disappointed John Kerry supporters who started fantasizing about moving to Canada after Nov. 2. But after nearly four years as an American in the Great White North, I've learned it's not all beer and doughnuts.

Four years. Not just a month or two. An incident or two. She's speaking from four years experiences.

Either way, my point remains. Stereotyping provides us with a tool to make a functional reference when detail is not required but, when one of our stereotypes fails, it's usually evidence that we didn't evolve our thinking to meet the situation required.

No, she didn't evolve her thinking to meet the situation required. Her thinking was based on perceptions/stereotypes. The purpose of her OP seems to be to let other Americans, who think the same way she did, to think twice before making a move. That is the point being made.

I didn't miss the point. I was simply providing another example to demonstrate that a complement can be an insult when it forces someone to conform to an stereotype.

The purpose of her OP isn't to force Canadians to conform to a stereotype; it's to warn/inform other Americans of what she found the reality to be over her/others' expectations. The title clearly states that her message is for Americans. She's not asking Canadians to conform. It's not addressed to Canadians.

She, herself, admits that she actually came for a job, but used that opportunity to build the pretense that she was escaping the big bad bush. I think that captures a little bit of the person behind the article.

That she's honest? That's what I get from that. But more than the kidding, which she clearly admits to, and the job opportunity, which she's also upfront about, she clearly states her feelings/perceptions of Canada, which I see as a major reason for her move. For instance, had she found a description of her dream job in Mexico or Saudi Arabia, I'm guessing she wouldn't have jumped at the opportunity to move there.

Again, clearly she's addressed her OP to people who feel the same way about how life in Canada would be as she did. The title refers to "fleeing" to Canada; she doesn't say "before you accept a job opportunity in Canada." Her expectations, based on her perceptions, are what the OP is based on. That's very clear.

FTR, I put the word asshole out there to reference the stereotypes I was presenting. There certainly was no anger in this or my other statements here. Minus one or two contributors, I think this is healthy debate... even BC is moving beyond his normal trolling tendencies in favour of thoughtful opinion I certainly don't think that the writer nor any of the contributing americans here are assholes.

Thanks for clearing that up; I appreciate it, as I did get the impression that you thought the author of the OP was an asshole.

We have no disagreement that Canadians are just like Americans on this front (i.e self-aggrandizing, demeaning of the other) and that most countries that share borders project the same kind of rhetoric. It's part of the fun of being neighbours! It's also the crux of my point, that this is a normal experience, so she was short-sighted to not expect it.

She was "short-sighted" because of the perceptions/stereotypes, and she's trying to set the record straight for others in that regard--give them food for thought. So others aren't as "short-sighted." To me that's the obvious point of the OP.

[dizzy]

I'm short on time at the moment (more shoveling awaits), so I'll just respond to this comment right now with a question -- which one of these responses did you have in mind when you made your observation?

All of the above I won't go through the entire thread, but I think some of these people have also made productive comments. And I noticed you didn't add BC's chirps about canada to your list? I'm not offended, because I recognize, for some, name-calling is just a part of the play in debate.

[bush_cheney2004]

.... And I noticed you didn't add BC's chirps about canada to your list? I'm not offended, because I recognize, for some, name-calling is just a part of the play in debate.

You mean like chirps concerning "assholes"?

[Guest American Woman]

All of the above I won't go through the entire thread, but I think some of these people have also made productive comments. And I noticed you didn't add BC's chirps about canada to your list? I'm not offended, because I recognize, for some, name-calling is just a part of the play in debate.

If they've also made productive comments, it does nothing to diminish the negative comments/insults that were directed at me without cause. Therefore, I don't see their contributions as "healthy debate."

As for BC's comments, none were directed at me, and since you were responding to my observations, I assumed your comment was in response to mine. I realize there are posters here who regularly exchange insults, but that's not what my comments were in reference to -- and that's not what the rude comments directed at me were in response to. So as I said, the comments/insults directed at me as an American just add validity to what the author had to say.

[dizzy]

It was her reality. Which leads me to another observation that I find interesting: when a Muslim gives his perspective of life in the U.S., it doesn't get questioned the way this woman presenting her experiences is under scrutiny/criticism. So again, that adds validity to the author's claim.

I think you're stretching here. She's only under scrutiny because someone dredged out a 6 yr old article. Where does the reference to one muslim voice come from? If i pick one muslim-canadian voice in america, it's Irshad Manji http://www.irshadmanji.com/about-irshad .

Yes, this was the author's reality. As it stands, no one has proven that her reality is the normal experience for americans living in canada or, more pointedly to the OP, that it defines the canadian reality.

I'm only going to address her claims because they are based on her life in Canada; her experiences. She's very open about her expectations, expectations that other Americans share. That's the reason for her OP, as I see it. It isn't to bash Canada/Canadians. It's to give other Americans who feel as she did food for thought.

I had spent years of my life feeling like I wasn't a typical American and wishing I could be Canadian. I wanted to live in a country that was not a superpower, a country I believe to have made the right choices about fairness, human rights and the social compact.

She goes on to say:

So I could certainly identify with the disappointed John Kerry supporters who started fantasizing about moving to Canada after Nov. 2. But after nearly four years as an American in the Great White North, I've learned it's not all beer and doughnuts.

Four years. Not just a month or two. An incident or two. She's speaking from four years experiences.

No, she didn't evolve her thinking to meet the situation required. Her thinking was based on perceptions/stereotypes. The purpose of her OP seems to be to let other Americans, who think the same way she did, to think twice before making a move. That is the point being made.

The purpose of her OP isn't to force Canadians to conform to a stereotype; it's to warn/inform other Americans of what she found the reality to be over her/others' expectations. The title clearly states that her message is for Americans. She's not asking Canadians to conform. It's not addressed to Canadians.

She didn't trigger this OP. Someone else did. It's the OP I'm addressing, with reference to the article. Her experience is valid. It is not the common reality as suggested by the OP.

That she's honest? That's what I get from that. But more than the kidding, which she clearly admits to, and the job opportunity, which she's also upfront about, she clearly states her feelings/perceptions of Canada, which I see as a major reason for her move. For instance, had she found a description of her dream job in Mexico or Saudi Arabia, I'm guessing she wouldn't have jumped at the opportunity to move there.

Again, clearly she's addressed her OP to people who feel the same way about how life in Canada would be as she did. The title refers to "fleeing" to Canada; she doesn't say "before you accept a job opportunity in Canada." Her expectations, based on her perceptions, are what the OP is based on. That's very clear.

Thanks for clearing that up; I appreciate it, as I did get the impression that you thought the author of the OP was an asshole.

She was "short-sighted" because of the perceptions/stereotypes, and she's trying to set the record straight for others in that regard--give them food for thought. So others aren't as "short-sighted." To me that's the obvious point of the OP.

Agreed. And I welcome her opinion. I just don't think anyone should consider it the rule. As I've mentioned earlier, I have many american friends and family. I work in america at least a few times a year (albeit as a visitor). I don't have one experience with the people with whom I interact; I have many.

Further, in my social circles here, you can bet that the US comes up in conversation, mainly around international issues or, more recently, healthcare. But I don't hear what I would consider american bashing. If there are disparaging comments, I regard them the same as I do the ones I hear about canadians by americans; as a reflection of cross-national rivalry.

[dizzy]

If they've also made productive comments, it does nothing to diminish the negative comments/insults that were directed at me without cause. Therefore, I don't see their contributions as "healthy debate."

As for BC's comments, none were directed at me, and since you were responding to my observations, I assumed your comment was in response to mine. I realize there are posters here who regularly exchange insults, but that's not what my comments were in reference to -- and that's not what the rude comments directed at me were in response to. So as I said, the comments/insults directed at me as an American just add validity to what the author had to say.

Yes, some aren't directed at you, and I sympathize with your frustration. I haven't seen any posts from you that would suggest you are even remotely anti-canadian and some people are ignorant to suggest that you are. But my reference to BC is also evidence that what the author says is not unique to canada.

[dizzy]

You mean like chirps concerning "assholes"?

Relax, BC. I explained the comment. I certainly didn't take offence to your response. FTR I'm interested in having a discussion/debate and not turning this into a courtroom. But I'll retract the 'asshole' comment, reluctantly, because I do think being surprised when black people are articulate (as some whites do in america) or being surprised when americans are not glory whores (as some people in the rest of the world do) are both very, very small-minded ways to view another group of people.

[bush_cheney2004]

Relax, BC. I explained the comment. I certainly didn't take offence to your response. FTR I'm interested in having a discussion/debate and not turning this into a courtroom.

I welcomed your candid comment as reflective of your own attitude and stereotype(s). Don't be surprised when others exhibit the same, that's all.

But I'll retract the 'asshole' comment, reluctantly, because I do think being surprised when black people are articulate (as some whites do in america) or being surprised when americans are not glory whores (as some people in the rest of the world do) are both very, very small-minded ways to view another group of people.

Your choice...I found the examples awkward at best. Should I be astonished to find "articulate" white people in Canada?

[dizzy]

I welcomed your candid comment as reflective of your own attitude and stereotype(s). Don't be surprised when others exhibit the same, that's all.

I've already retracted the word 'asshole' as it's clearly created some misunderstanding with regard to my intent. That's the weakness of soundbite culture, I guess. I still imagine a world where people like winston churchill have value.

Your choice...I found the examples awkward at best. Should I be astonished to find "articulate" white people in Canada?

Put the words "articulate" and "black" into google and report back to me. You may not have known it, but a lot of black americans don't like being called articulate.

[bush_cheney2004]

I've already retracted the word 'asshole' as it's clearly created some misunderstanding with regard to my intent. That's the weakness of soundbite culture, I guess. I still imagine a world where people like winston churchill have value.

Your intent was clear to me...."assholes" also help to make the world go 'round.

Put the words "articulate" and "black" into google and report back to me. You may not have known it, but a lot of black americans don't like being called articulate.

If you say so...are you sure that all "whites" in Canada appreciate the label as well?

[dizzy]

Your intent was clear to me...."assholes" also help to make the world go 'round.

Yes, I get the strategy. Find the one 'weak' point and pummel it endlessly until the whole argument bruises. You got me, I used a bad word. As an aside, I've responded thoughtfully to all of your equally thoughtful posts and, at present, they are unanswered. Would you care to move back to the point of your OP?

If you say so...are you sure that all "whites" in Canada appreciate the label as well?

I just put "whites" and "articulate" into google and then "whites", "articulate" and "Canada". I'm happy to report that there's not issues like the one I referenced wrt the articulate comment for blacks. It reinforces my point that a compliment can be an insult when it enforces only one possible identity for a large group of people.

[bush_cheney2004]

Yes, I get the strategy. Find the one 'weak' point and pummel it endlessly until the whole argument bruises. You got me, I used a bad word. As an aside, I've responded thoughtfully to all of your equally thoughtful posts and, at present, they are unanswered. Would you care to move back to the point of your OP?

No....like you, I choose to respond to points of interest, ignoring others. I certainly do not keep score on such matters. If there is something specific, lock and reload.

I just put "whites" and "articulate" into google and then "whites", "articulate" and "Canada". I'm happy to report that there's not issues like the one I referenced wrt the articulate comment for blacks. It reinforces my point that a compliment can be an insult when it enforces only one possible identity for a large group of people.

Now it's just getting weird. The point of "stereotypes" has been beat to death....no need to divert to specific tangents concerning Canadians notions about "blacks" or "Americans". I just found it odd that you chose to parse "black" from "American", as this leads to another stereotype championed by some Canadians.

[dizzy]

No....like you, I choose to respond to points of interest, ignoring others. I certainly do not keep score on such matters. If there is something specific, lock and reload.

I'm. pretty sure I've responded to all of your points. Please advise me if I missed any.

Now it's just getting weird. The point of "stereotypes" has been beat to death....no need to divert to specific tangents concerning Canadians notions about "blacks" or "Americans". I just found it odd that you chose to parse "black" from "American", as this leads to another stereotype championed by some Canadians.

You're accusing me of beating one drum

I was using the shortcomings afforded by other well-known stereotypes, including one wrt cross-racial stereotyping, to 'colour' the one that drives this thread. It exists, everywhere, all of the time. It's not unusual that it existed as it did in the evidence you provided in your OP.

[bush_cheney2004]

I'm. pretty sure I've responded to all of your points. Please advise me if I missed any.

Again...I don't know or am concerned either way. If you feel slighted, reiterate your pressing idea that will only be satisfied with my unique wisdom.

I was using the shortcomings afforded by other well-known stereotypes, including one wrt cross-racial stereotyping, to 'colour' the one that drives this thread. It exists, everywhere, all of the time. It's not unusual that it existed as it did in the evidence you provided in your OP.

Apparently not...you disallowed my concoction of inarticulate whites in Canada...shame on you!

[dizzy]

Again...I don't know or am concerned either way. If you feel slighted, reiterate your pressing idea that will only be satisfied with my unique wisdom.

Slighted, no. Just disappointed you fell back to trolling... and it's not 'my idea' that needs addressing but the actual debate you started and I honoured by responding respectfully. Let's reconnect here:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=17474&view=findpost&p=606577

Apparently not...you disallowed my concoction of inarticulate whites in Canada...shame on you!

I disallowed nothing, you failed to prove it exists...

[bush_cheney2004]

Slighted, no. Just disappointed you fell back to trolling... and it's not 'my idea' that needs addressing but the actual debate you started and I honoured by responding respectfully. Let's reconnect here:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=17474&view=findpost&p=606577

Sorry...I am American...please be direct...nuance is not required or desired. But I will attempt a guess so as not to send you away with ill will:

1) Identity defined as "small-power" begs the question of inferiority when none should exist. This is not a problem for Fiji, an even smaller "power".

I disallowed nothing, you failed to prove it exists...

You missed the point entirely...I don't have to prove it exists in Stereotype Land.

Edited December 12, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[waldo]

But if one is moving for the reasons she did, for the reasons so many Americans say they are going to move there, then it's best to think twice so one isn't blindly making the move. And I agree with her.

the reasons she did??? The OP speaks of a move for 'career reasons'... a 2000 move. As she's still living/working in Toronto, apparently, she has a tremendous tolerance level for her interpreted anti-Americanism... soon to be over a decade strong! Of course, after such a lengthy period of time, one might also infer she prefers working in/around the Canadian health system... either that... or her tolerance levels are considerably broader than being spoken of - hey?

I'm sure it won't be long before someone injects some wildly tangential path to inject a favoured Muslim comparison angle... in 5, 4, 3, .....

It was her reality. Which leads me to another observation that I find interesting: when a Muslim gives his perspective of life in the U.S., it doesn't get questioned the way this woman presenting her experiences is under scrutiny/criticism. So again, that adds validity to the author's claim.

[dizzy]

Sorry...I am American...please be direct...nuance is not required or desired. But I will attempt a guess so as not to send you away with ill will:

1) Identity defined as "small-power" begs the question of inferiority when none should exist. This is not a problem for Fiji, an even smaller "power".

Nuance? I linked you to the last post of connected discussion. Everything looks crystal clear there. Let me know what's confusing you and I'll clarify.

You missed the point entirely...I don't have to prove it exists in Stereotype Land.

You missed the point entirely, 'stereotype land' is everywhere, not just Canada.

Edited December 12, 2010 by dizzy

[bush_cheney2004]

Nuance? I linked you to the last post of connected discussion. Everything looks crystal clear there. Let me know what's confusing you and I'll clarify.

It was clear that the discussion was over....no kiss, but a second date is possible.

You missed the point entirely, 'stereotype land' is everywhere, not just Canada.

Then why did you fight off mine?