gutb Posted October 22, 2010 Report Posted October 22, 2010 okay I was just making a point, being a journalist doesn't make her a leading candidate to run a city of a million people either... Obviously not. But being a part of the public political landscape in Calgary for over 20 years by itself makes her a better candidate than Nenshi, all else being equal. It's really beyond any rational debate. Any further attempt to deny this fact is really just promoting a desire to be "right", and for me to be "wrong"....unless you or someone else can put forward a rational argument that can make a few years working as a management consultant working for non-Canadian corporations and teaching a course on non profit management trump over two decades of journalism in Calgary. Quote
guyser Posted October 22, 2010 Report Posted October 22, 2010 Obviously not. But being a part of the public political landscape in Calgary for over 20 years by itself makes her a better candidate than Nenshi, all else being equal. It's really beyond any rational debate. Any further attempt to deny this fact is really just promoting a desire to be "right", and for me to be "wrong"....unless you or someone else can put forward a rational argument that can make a few years working as a management consultant working for non-Canadian corporations and teaching a course on non profit management trump over two decades of journalism in Calgary. If you want make bones about it, our PM, hailing from Calgary, really hasnt had a job either....or so Im told Quote
Black Dog Posted October 22, 2010 Report Posted October 22, 2010 (edited) Obviously not. But being a part of the public political landscape in Calgary for over 20 years by itself makes her a better candidate than Nenshi, all else being equal. It's really beyond any rational debate. Simply declaring something to be so does not ipso facto make it so. Any further attempt to deny this fact is really just promoting a desire to be "right", and for me to be "wrong"....unless you or someone else can put forward a rational argument that can make a few years working as a management consultant working for non-Canadian corporations and teaching a course on non profit management trump over two decades of journalism in Calgary. Well first you have to tell us why 20 years of sitting behind a desk on TV makes one qualified for political office in the first place. Edited October 22, 2010 by Black Dog Quote
wyly Posted October 22, 2010 Report Posted October 22, 2010 (edited) If you want make bones about it, our PM, hailing from Calgary, really hasnt had a job either....or so Im told good one... I guess we could call him a silver spooned wasp academic elitist from TO Edited October 22, 2010 by wyly Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
gutb Posted October 22, 2010 Report Posted October 22, 2010 Simply declaring something to be so does not ipso facto make it so. Of course not. We are having a forum discussion, not a debate, and so a great deal of logical formalities can be done away with for the sake expediency; I will just say for the purpose of this thread that it is virtually self-evident that 20 years of local journalism is a better crendtial for a mayor than a few years working in a large multi-national management consulting firm and teaching a non profit management course. Furthermore, I will suggest that any denial of this is probably not rational, unless a rational argument can be made to the opposite. Telling me that declaring something doesn't make it so is simply a comment, not an argument. Quote
Black Dog Posted October 22, 2010 Report Posted October 22, 2010 (edited) Of course not. We are having a forum discussion, not a debate, and so a great deal of logical formalities can be done away with for the sake expediency; I will just say for the purpose of this thread that it is virtually self-evident that 20 years of local journalism is a better crendtial for a mayor than a few years working in a large multi-national management consulting firm and teaching a non profit management course. Furthermore, I will suggest that any denial of this is probably not rational, unless a rational argument can be made to the opposite. Telling me that declaring something doesn't make it so is simply a comment, not an argument. It is not self-evident. Not in the least. There is no rational reason to believe 20 years of sitting behind a desk on TV would make someone qualified for political office, let alone more qualified than someone with actual experience developing policy and working in a management capacity (essentialy the role of a chief executive for a municipal corporation). Edited October 22, 2010 by Black Dog Quote
gutb Posted October 22, 2010 Report Posted October 22, 2010 It is not self-evident. Not in the least. There is no rational reason to beleive why 20 years of sitting behind a desk on TV would make someone qualified for political office. I don't consider it a good qualifying credential. Merely, it's a better credential than Nenshi's, and the reason for that is self-evident. Quote
Black Dog Posted October 22, 2010 Report Posted October 22, 2010 (edited) I don't consider it a good qualifying credential. Merely, it's a better credential than Nenshi's, and the reason for that is self-evident. See my edit above. In short: you're mistaken. Edited October 22, 2010 by Black Dog Quote
wyly Posted October 22, 2010 Report Posted October 22, 2010 It is not self-evident. Not in the least. There is no rational reason to believe 20 years of sitting behind a desk on TV would make someone qualified for political office, let alone more qualified than someone with actual experience developing policy and working in a management capacity (essentialy the role of a chief executive for a municipal corporation). looking at both bio's Nenshi has been in calgary for about 30 yrs compared to higgins 20yrs, higgins is a graduate of a NAIT, Nenshi has a commerce degree from U of C and masters degree from Harvard...it was a no brainer for 140,000 calgarians who voted for Nenshi... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
gutb Posted October 22, 2010 Report Posted October 22, 2010 See my edit above. In short: you're mistaken. No, I'm not. Business management does include a compnent of organizational management, but this is very superficial in regards to being a mayor, as the mayor has an office and a staff with experienced managers. Two decades of local journalism, however, means spending a whole generation tied to the politcal pulse of the city, or at least to it's power-players and opinion leaders. It's hearing both sides on politcal issues, and navigating city's political landscape. It's witnessing many of the real-world issues facing people in the city. It provides the training in charisma and public speaking to be taken seriously. It builds a large database of local history. Again, this is virtually self-evident, and I don't see how a rational person could conclude working as a manager consultant for a few years with large international government enterprises that spend more money than they know what to do with on people like Nenshi is a better credential for being a mayor over 20 years of local journalism. It absurd on it's face, and I can only conclude you are simply being contrary in a misplaced desire to "win" an argument. Quote
guyser Posted October 22, 2010 Report Posted October 22, 2010 No, I'm not. Yes you are... Two decades of local journalism, however, means spending a whole generation tied to the politcal pulse of the city, or at least to it's power-players and opinion leaders. It's hearing both sides on politcal issues, and navigating city's political landscape. It's witnessing many of the real-world issues facing people in the city. It provides the training in charisma and public speaking to be taken seriously. It builds a large database of local history. All the while being somewhat treated like a talking head, since a TV anchor is really that, and to boot being spoon fed what the interviewee wants them to hear.....as opposed to... working as a manager consultant for a few years with large international government enterprises that spend more money than they know what to do with on people like Nenshi is a better credential for being a mayor over 20 years of local journalism. It absurd on it's face, and I can only conclude you are simply being contrary in a misplaced desire to "win" an argument. One who has been in the trenches, had the fights and knows all the warts of big business. TV anchor....businessman....tv anchor...business man.....right, on par. You can argue all you want, but you aint gonna win this one. Quote
Black Dog Posted October 22, 2010 Report Posted October 22, 2010 No, I'm not. Business management does include a compnent of organizational management, but this is very superficial in regards to being a mayor, as the mayor has an office and a staff with experienced managers. Two decades of local journalism, however, means spending a whole generation tied to the politcal pulse of the city, or at least to it's power-players and opinion leaders. It's hearing both sides on politcal issues, and navigating city's political landscape. It's witnessing many of the real-world issues facing people in the city. It provides the training in charisma and public speaking to be taken seriously. It builds a large database of local history. Essentially you are suggesting that a mayor's job is to glad-hand, look good for the cameras and let other actually qualified people do the real work. If that's the case, then yes, you're probably right that Higgins is more qualified. But I don't believe you to be correct in your evaluation of the mayor's job description. Honestly, I haven't seen such a collection of trite, empty slogans since I last looked at Rob Ford's platform. Again, this is virtually self-evident, and I don't see how a rational person could conclude working as a manager consultant for a few years with large international government enterprises that spend more money than they know what to do with on people like Nenshi is a better credential for being a mayor over 20 years of local journalism. This is a straw man. Nenshi is not qualified for the job based solely on his work as a management consultant, but on the sum total of his achievements to date. Let's try a little something: I don't see how a rational person could conclude spending 20 years reading a teleprompter is a better credential for being a mayor than with decades of high-level business management, public policy and civic advocacy experience. This is virtually self-evident. This game is fun. Now, if you were arguing that Maciver was better qualified based on his first hand experience working in city hall, you might have a point. But you're not, and you don't. Finally, you're clearly new here, and so I have to ask why you've come to a discussion board when your m.o. in your brief time here seems to be making broad statements, declaring them to be "self-evident" truths and then attempting to shut down the debate with cheap rhetorical ploys. Quote
M.Dancer Posted October 22, 2010 Report Posted October 22, 2010 Of course not. We are having a forum discussion, not a debate, and so a great deal of logical formalities can be done away with for the sake expediency; I will just say for the purpose of this thread that it is virtually self-evident that 20 years of local journalism is a better crendtial for a mayor than a few years working in a large multi-national management consulting firm and teaching a non profit management course. Furthermore, I will suggest that any denial of this is probably not rational, unless a rational argument can be made to the opposite. Telling me that declaring something doesn't make it so is simply a comment, not an argument. It is not self evident nor is it even a good metric. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Oleg Bach Posted October 22, 2010 Report Posted October 22, 2010 Sure this guy looks like a nice enough fellow- but in his heart he views..Christian Judiac and secularism with utter contempt and loathing...why would he not? BUT we with our soft liberal hearts and minds actually belive all is good..well it is not- This is the begining of the internal displacement of our culture in the conservative west - Conservative Muslims will use liberality to oust conservative Christians..it is just a matter of time..and this Mayor will continue to give his charming boyish smile while he does his fathers and grandfathers bidding-- and brings Allah to Alberta. Quote
fellowtraveller Posted October 22, 2010 Report Posted October 22, 2010 Apparently the relative merits of the journalist and the professor were self evident to the electorate.... IMO, somebody who spent 20 years as part of the political machinery of a city would be less qualified - or actually less desirable- than somebody who had not. Far too many friends, far too many enemies, and not enough objective perspective for the journalist. It is not necessary for any candidate to have extensive business or political experience. The actual business of the city is run by bureaucrats and always will be. What is paramount is a vision, a direction the mayor wants the city to move toward. And for Calgary, having a visible minority as Mayor is already a major step towards a rebranding of the place. Looks like Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver have some catching up to do. Quote The government should do something.
fellowtraveller Posted October 23, 2010 Report Posted October 23, 2010 Sure this guy looks like a nice enough fellow- but in his heart he views..Christian Judiac and secularism with utter contempt and loathing...why would he not? BUT we with our soft liberal hearts and minds actually belive all is good..well it is not- This is the begining of the internal displacement of our culture in the conservative west - Conservative Muslims will use liberality to oust conservative Christians..it is just a matter of time..and this Mayor will continue to give his charming boyish smile while he does his fathers and grandfathers bidding-- and brings Allah to Alberta. What do you think about the Jew they just reelected to a third term in Edmonton? Is he more dangerous, flying under the Chruistian conservative radar? The Jews killed Jesus, you know. Quote The government should do something.
jbg Posted November 4, 2010 Report Posted November 4, 2010 It's funny to watch people's reactions when their bigoted and stereotypical views are shattered in front of their eyes. Everyone that's "so suprised" illustrates just how bigoted and prejudiced they really are. You mean the anti-Alberta bigotry that seems to be rife in some of Canada's bigger cities such as Toronto? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jbg Posted November 4, 2010 Report Posted November 4, 2010 The Jews killed Jesus, you know. More bigotry on your part? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Sir Bandelot Posted November 4, 2010 Report Posted November 4, 2010 More bigotry on your part? No, we saw it on Mel Gibson. Quote
bloodyminded Posted November 6, 2010 Report Posted November 6, 2010 More bigotry on your part? I'm quite sure that Fellowtraveller was being ironic; he was mocking that particular view. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
CANADIEN Posted November 6, 2010 Report Posted November 6, 2010 I'm quite sure that Fellowtraveller was being ironic; he was mocking that particular view. How anyone could miss that he was mocking a particular view is mind-boggling Quote
jbg Posted November 6, 2010 Report Posted November 6, 2010 How anyone could miss that he was mocking a particular view is mind-boggling Guess I was wrong. Or maybe my mind is often boggled. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
dre Posted November 6, 2010 Report Posted November 6, 2010 So I am suprised the first major Canadian City to elect a muslim to the post of mayor is Calgary. I thought Calgary might be more christian than say montreal or toronto or vancouver. Who cares if they ARE more Christian... rational Christians will vote for a Muslim as long as they think hes the best man for the job. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
jbg Posted November 7, 2010 Report Posted November 7, 2010 Who cares if they ARE more Christian... rational Christians will vote for a Muslim as long as they think hes the best man for the job. As would a rational Jew. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
dre Posted November 7, 2010 Report Posted November 7, 2010 As would a rational Jew. Of course. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
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