Canadian Seat on U.N. Security Council

[nicky10013]

Respect from the likes of these people we do NOT need.

I agree that its just silly politics trying to blame Ignatieff. Nobody in the world even knows who he is, and even those who do certainly wouldn't let his bleatings influence their votes. No, the blame is politics just like Ignatieff's reaction.

Canada didn't get the required 2/3rds vote for a council seat because, pure and simple, it has a spine. Canada used to be "neutral" in the whole middle east thing for fear of offending anyone (including Muslim voters back home) but Harper has Canada actually voting according to moral standards, showing integrity. There are some 60 Muslim counties in the U.N., and they can almost always manage to buy several dozen more votes from poor, third world countries who don't care about most of what goes on anyway. It was almost a foregone conclusion that the Muslim world - which cares about nothing and no one but their everlasting hatred of Israel, would not want a friend of Israel on the United Nations.

But there's no reason for Canada to be embarrassed about being dissed by that lot. These are the people to whom Sudan's president is an Islamic hero, after all, and who see nothing wrong with Libya heading up their Human Rights group.

And you can be sure that if the United States had to face a vote for the security council there would be no way in the world they'd get the 2/3rd support either.

Hahahah wow. We don't like what they have to say, therefore they shouldn't have a say in the UN. A general discourse, even with people we love to hate, is what the UN was created for.

As for the Security Council, for everyone saying the UN is useless, where do you think reform takes place?

The UN is an incredibly important body and it will be for a long time. To write it off because your party couldn't handle it properly and because it allows muslim countries to participate isn't good enough.

[nicky10013]

Well that isn't what they are saying. What they are saying is Ignatieff plus Harper is worth more then Harper minus Ignatieff and if Igantieff was a true leader in Canada he would have sucked up his pride and saved this fight until the bidding was done.

See what they are saying is Harper is worth say 10 points, and Igantieff is worth 2 points. Canada needed to make to 11 to get the seat because Igantieff wasn't Canadian enough to endorse Canada's bid we didn't get to that 11 points and thus he lost us the seat. That is the argument. Is it right or not, we will never know really but it probably isn't. Doesn't mean it isn't a good point. There is always plenty of time to Bash Canada after we may have lost or won an important seat, there was no need to start before hand. Only a terrible leader would do something to handicap the people and country for his own gain.

Only he wasn't bashing Canada. He said the government of canada hasn't earned a seat and the international community agrees with him without anything to do with Ignatieff.

From Kady O'Malley

A reporter who has actually talked to other delegations suggests that there were other factors. None involve Ignatieff

[punked]

Only he wasn't bashing Canada. He said the government of canada hasn't earned a seat and the international community agrees with him without anything to do with Ignatieff.

From Kady O'Malley

I`m saying that is the argument and it will resonate with Canadians. It doesn't matter if it is Ignatieff's fault he had no place opening his big mouth BEFORE the vote.

[nicky10013]

I`m saying that is the argument and it will resonate with Canadians. It doesn't matter if it is Ignatieff's fault he had no place opening his big mouth BEFORE the vote.

I disagree.

[M.Dancer]

I`m saying that is the argument and it will resonate with Canadians. It doesn't matter if it is Ignatieff's fault he had no place opening his big mouth BEFORE the vote.

And now the Liberals are chattering that since the tinpot dictatorships have signalled that they don't like our policy, we should re work it.

Seems they would prefer our policy forged in Sudan than Ottawa.

[punked]

I disagree.

So you are ok with Opposition leaders going around bashing Canada and hoping for it to fail so they can win an election? Like it or not politics should stop at the waters edge. It doesn't seem the Liberal party got that memo. Seems like the typical Liberal.

Edited October 12, 2010 by punked

[nicky10013]

So you are ok with Opposition leaders going around bashing Canada and hoping for it to fail so they can win an election? Seems like the typical Liberal.

No one did what you're accusing. Even your hero Jack Layton and his little buddy Paul Dewar said that's crap.

[punked]

No one did what you're accusing. Even your hero Jack Layton and his little buddy Paul Dewar said that's crap.

I am just saying if the Liberal leader wasn't such a screw up no one would be able to blame him for the loss but because he is a terrible leader that is what is happening. He had no place to say it. I agree with you he isn't important and no one in the whole world even in Canada respects his opinions but that doesn't mean he can't put his foot in his mouth.

[nicky10013]

I am just saying if the Liberal leader wasn't such a screw up no one would be able to blame him for the loss but because he is a terrible leader that is what is happening. He had no place to say it. I agree with you he isn't important and no one in the whole world even in Canada respects his opinions but that doesn't mean he can't put his foot in his mouth.

Canadians are smart enough to figure out what really happened. The ones that aren't, well, they vote Conservative anyway. I'm disappointed you feel differently.

Edited October 12, 2010 by nicky10013

[Argus]

Hahahah wow. We don't like what they have to say, therefore they shouldn't have a say in the UN. A general discourse, even with people we love to hate, is what the UN was created for.

Actually, what I said was that if THEY don't like what WE are saying that's too bad. We shouldn't change our positions in order to please a bunch of corrupt, murderous religious wack jobs. In other words, we should not, as you and the Liberals and NDP seem to be suggesting, throw ourselves on our bellies and go crawling to the Muslim bloc and promise to vote however they want if they just pretty, pretty please forgive us.

[punked]

Canadians are smart enough to figure out what really happened. The ones that aren't, well, they vote Conservative anyway. I'm disappointed you feel differently.

See here is the problem for the Liberals. You don't get it both ways, either your Leader means nothing and thus what he said had no effect or he is an important figure meeting the Queen, and the US President in the last year thus he should kept his mouth shut.

Either way the Liberals would have been better off if their leader knew anything about politics and kept his mouth shut until the Cons failed. Now you get some of the heat no matter what hope you enjoy it again.

[nicky10013]

See here is the problem for the Liberals. You don't get it both ways, either your Leader means nothing and thus what he said had no effect or he is an important figure meeting the Queen, and the US President in the last year thus he should kept his mouth shut.

Either way the Liberals would have been better off if their leader knew anything about politics and kept his mouth shut until the Cons failed. Now you get some of the heat no matter what hope you enjoy it again.

So, where is the heat Jack is taking? How bad of a leader is he? I literally just saw him on the CBC saying the exact same things Ignatieff is saying. The only person wanting to have it both ways is you vis a vis the NDP.

Edited October 12, 2010 by nicky10013

[nicky10013]

Actually, what I said was that if THEY don't like what WE are saying that's too bad. We shouldn't change our positions in order to please a bunch of corrupt, murderous religious wack jobs. In other words, we should not, as you and the Liberals and NDP seem to be suggesting, throw ourselves on our bellies and go crawling to the Muslim bloc and promise to vote however they want if they just pretty, pretty please forgive us.

No one is arguing that. What people is arguing is perhaps if we hadn't given up on Africa, given up on maternal health, given up on climate change, even given up on the UN which was blatantly obvious as Harper skipped last year to go to Tim Hortons then maybe we'd have a seat and have a chance to shape the discourse. No where does that have us crawling on our belly to dictatorships. I've said this before and I'll say this again. The only time foreign affaris have figured into what the government wants to accomplish is when it can score domestic political points. Despite the anti-islamic talking points, this vote is a slap in the face to Harper and his foreign policy choices.

[waldo]

I can't see it as being anything else but the vote of confidence, though Harper's boys would without doubt try to put their usual partisan spin on it. Hard to lead others when you so firmly think little, think narrow, think self centered ideological interest. Not like after these years there remains any doubt that this is all Conservatives' international policies are about.

yabut...

I do not in any way see this as a repudiation of Canada's foreign policy," he said. "The principles underlying our foreign policy, such as freedom, democracy, respect for human rights and the rule of law, were the basis of all our decisions.

"Some would even say that because of our attachment to those values that we lost a seat on the council. If that's case, then so be it.

so we'll get to see the Conservative attack ads after all... that blame Ignatieff! Oh wait... doesn't that suggest Conservatives see Ignatieff as the most powerful man in the country... that Ignatieff wields considerably more power than Fearless Leader Harper?

[wyly]

Only he wasn't bashing Canada. He said the government of canada hasn't earned a seat and the international community agrees with him without anything to do with Ignatieff.

From Kady O'Malley

I'd be really surprised if many of the delegates ever heard of Ignatieff...how many here can name the president of portugal let alone the PM or the leader of the opposition...ya our PR people may convince most we're a great important power but in truth we've been reduced to being negligible USA tag-a-longs...

[Argus]

I disagree.

You disagree because, like the Muslim world, everything is focused through the prism of your own bile and hate. The only difference is that in your case it's the Tories you hate instead of Israelis - not that you're all that fond of THEM either.

[Argus]

So, where is the heat Jack is taking? How bad of a leader is he? I literally just saw him on the CBC saying the exact same things Ignatieff is saying. The only person wanting to have it both ways is you vis a vis the NDP.

Yeah, Layton reminds me of why I can never bring myself to vote for them. What a two-faced weasel. He's as bad as Ignatieff. Neither of them can actually give you an honest, politics free, thoughtful statement to save their miserable lives.

[Argus]

No one is arguing that.

No, that is EXACTLY what they're saying. For all their sniveling about how Canada is no longer an "honest broker" what they really mean is the Conservatives had the spine to take a position on something. That's not something the Liberals have ever done internationally unless they were absolutely sure it would result in no adverse consequences.

What people is arguing is perhaps if we hadn't given up on Africa, given up on maternal health,

As opposed to Portugal? You think they've done more than us?

given up on climate change,

Don't be ridiculous. The climate change treaty died because of the Chinese and Americans, not us.

[The_Squid]

Yeah, Layton reminds me of why I can never bring myself to vote for them. What a two-faced weasel. He's as bad as Ignatieff. Neither of them can actually give you an honest, politics free, thoughtful statement to save their miserable lives.

Regardless of the opposition's statements and opinions on the issue of the security council seat, the fact is that they have no pull with the UN whatsoever.

Canada lost that seat based on the government's own actions or inactions with regard to their foreign policy initiatives.

It looks like that the voting members weren't convinced that Canada had much to contribute. And, based upon what the Cons have done since they came to power, they are probably correct. Not a good day for Canada.....

[Shakeyhands]

I am just saying if the Liberal leader wasn't such a screw up no one would be able to blame him for the loss but because he is a terrible leader that is what is happening. He had no place to say it. I agree with you he isn't important and no one in the whole world even in Canada respects his opinions but that doesn't mean he can't put his foot in his mouth.

I really like how you continually bash the Liberals. The sad thing is that if you want a government that is in the least bit progressive, the Liberals are who you should be supporting. The NDP will never form a federal government. Sorry.

[nicky10013]

You disagree because, like the Muslim world, everything is focused through the prism of your own bile and hate. The only difference is that in your case it's the Tories you hate instead of Israelis - not that you're all that fond of THEM either.

Ahahaha wow. Got nothing to come back with so call the person you disagree with a hate monger. Congrats, you're an idiot.

[nicky10013]

Yeah, Layton reminds me of why I can never bring myself to vote for them. What a two-faced weasel. He's as bad as Ignatieff. Neither of them can actually give you an honest, politics free, thoughtful statement to save their miserable lives.

Neither can Harper, so shouldn't you be hating the system rather than just the opposition?

[nicky10013]

No, that is EXACTLY what they're saying. For all their sniveling about how Canada is no longer an "honest broker" what they really mean is the Conservatives had the spine to take a position on something. That's not something the Liberals have ever done internationally unless they were absolutely sure it would result in no adverse consequences.

Blindly supporting Israel isn't having a spine, it's being blind. We should support Israel on some things, Palestinians on others, and condemnig both for their use of violence. Conservatives, on just about everything seperate reality into opposing dualities which often don't exist. In this case, the good is represented by "democratic" Israel and the bad obviously by the muslims. Unfortunately, despite being a democracy, the world isn't black and white and Israel committs very real human rights abuses just the same as Palestinians. If we're true to our ideals in that we should support human rights and the development of democracy, we should be chastising both parties.

It's funny, yet hypocritical. You're doing the exact same thing as people who hate on Israel.

As opposed to Portugal? You think they've done more than us?

The fact that the UN says Portugal has done more shows you how bad our internatioanl reputation really does. What I think compared to that means nothign.

Don't be ridiculous. The climate change treaty died because of the Chinese and Americans, not us.

Oh please, Obama wanted a deal. We, on the other hand, didn't and went and negotiated in bad faith. Countries remember that kind of crap.

[YEGmann]

Canada lost that seat based on the government's own actions or inactions with regard to their foreign policy initiatives.

It looks like that the voting members weren't convinced that Canada had much to contribute. And, based upon what the Cons have done since they came to power, they are probably correct. Not a good day for Canada.....

I hardly believe Portugal can contribute as much (or even close) as Canada could. The UN vote is in no way objective. Little guys push their own agendas. Of course they do not like Canada cares about Canadian interest first. Portugal is one of those little guys and thus received this choice of solidarity or indifference.

[Keepitsimple]

I really like how you continually bash the Liberals. The sad thing is that if you want a government that is in the least bit progressive, the Liberals are who you should be supporting. The NDP will never form a federal government. Sorry.

I've asked other posters but never seem to get an answer. What do you mean by progressive?