Progressive Conservatives would win Ontario election says New Poll

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Looks like Ontario is going PC:

http://envirogy.ca/2010/09/28/new-poll-places-pc-leader-tim-hudak-in-the-lead-for-2011/

This good or bad?

Tim Hudak we hardly know you!

[Topaz]

I guess some Ontarians have bad memories! Harper's painting Canada's map blue will come true if Canadians don't watch themselves at voting time. Do people forget what Ontario went though under Harris? Hopefully, if the PC get in it will only be a moniority.

[Michael Hardner]

I guess some Ontarians have bad memories! Harper's painting Canada's map blue will come true if Canadians don't watch themselves at voting time. Do people forget what Ontario went though under Harris? Hopefully, if the PC get in it will only be a moniority.

Dalton's time has run out. Eventually his bad management practices would catch up to him. And that's now.

[M.Dancer]

Dalton's time has run out. Eventually his bad management practices would catch up to him. And that's now.

Is it too late for him to run for mayor of toronto?

[treehugger]

Is it too late for him to run for mayor of toronto?

His twin brother is already mayor in TO

[treehugger]

I guess some Ontarians have bad memories! Harper's painting Canada's map blue will come true if Canadians don't watch themselves at voting time. Do people forget what Ontario went though under Harris? Hopefully, if the PC get in it will only be a moniority.

There is no comparison of Harris to anybody, unless it's Ernie Eves. Both did nothing for Ontario exept cause woe and havoc.Now McGuinty has joined that lot.

[Topaz]

I voted for the Libs twice but I can't this time but I"M NOT going to support the PC under a former Harris member. The PC candidate was in Windsor area this past summer and he was talking about the HST and how bad it is for Ontarians,. When asked when he would get rid of it he said I didn't say that. So under the PC's we would still have the HST. I think that if McGuinty resign from the Libs it might help but then again I doubt it. If you go to the PC platform, most of his promises are for one year only and nothing really to help out the ones that need it.

[capricorn]

I guess some Ontarians have bad memories! Harper's painting Canada's map blue will come true if Canadians don't watch themselves at voting time.

Yeah, let's all vote Liberal because of Harper, regardless of how bad that Liberal government has proven to be. Thankfully, I have confidence in the Canadian voter that they won't subscribe to such faulty logic.

[capricorn]

Is it too late for him to run for mayor of toronto?

If luck is on the Conservatives' side, Dolton will run federally for the Liberals. Who knows, he might give Rae and Trudeau a run for their money for the leadership.

[Jack Weber]

There is no comparison of Harris to anybody, unless it's Ernie Eves. Both did nothing for Ontario exept cause woe and havoc.Now McGuinty has joined that lot.

Oh...It's fairly easy to make the connection between Hudak and Harris/Flaharty Gang O' Fun...

Hudak is married the Deb Hutton,who was a Harris advisor...

Hudak backed Jim "Let's jail the homeless on compassionate grounds" Flaharty during Jimmy's ill-fated PC leadership campaign...

He's a Harris holdover from the '99 election...

and sadly,my MPP...

Hudak is a hardline Harrisite hack,nothing more or less...

Edited September 30, 2010 by Jack Weber

[Jack Weber]

I voted for the Libs twice but I can't this time but I"M NOT going to support the PC under a former Harris member. The PC candidate was in Windsor area this past summer and he was talking about the HST and how bad it is for Ontarians,. When asked when he would get rid of it he said I didn't say that. So under the PC's we would still have the HST. I think that if McGuinty resign from the Libs it might help but then again I doubt it. If you go to the PC platform, most of his promises are for one year only and nothing really to help out the ones that need it.

We'll have the HST,because Hudak won't get rid of it(although he did say he might try to "modify" it)...

Plus,we'll get the good old Tory panacea for all the is wrong with society....More corporate tax cuts off our backs...

[Wild Bill]

Oh...It's fairly easy to make the connection between Hudak and Harris/Flaharty Gang O' Fun...

Hudak is married the Deb Hutton,who was a Harris advisor...

Hudak backed Jim "Let's jail the homeless on compassionate grounds" Flaharty during Jimmy's ill-fated PC leadership campaign...

He's a Harris holdover from the '99 election...

and sadly,my MPP...

Hudak is a hardline Harrisite hack,nothing more or less...

Jack, just because you and a few of the folks here hated Harris doesn't mean there aren't a great many Ontarioans that remember him fondly enough to vote for Hudak!

I've said before, we never got a chance to find out if the hatred for Harris was widespread or just intense among those who never voted for him in the first place! Teachers, CUPE and other unions vilified him before his first election and after he was gone. So what? Frankly, I've never heard much one way or another from any other group.

Harris stepped down. Ernie Eves was a rather pale choice to replace him. Two terms in many people's minds is enough for any government anyway. I could understand why a Dalton could beat an Eves, at that time.

Hudak is not being compared to Eves. He's being associated with Harris. Harris won TWO HONKIN' HUGE MAJORITIES! There must have been SOME attraction to the man!

I think Dalton has handed much of the good things about Harris to Hudak on a platter. Harris campaigned on fulfilling his promises and then kept them. Dalton campaigned on keeping promises but then he just kept breaking them! If I were Dalton the last thing I would want is any mention of Harris that might remind folks about that.

You may be right that it's EVERYBODY who hates Harris but my point is that the premise has never been tested. Even the PCs after Harris wussed out and headed for the middle of the road, lowest common denominator, brown shoes and beige pants position.

I think there is more Harris type support out there than the PCs opponents would care to admit. The last thing Dalton's advisers would want is such a clear choice at the ballot box.

A few more electricity bills before the next election and Dalton may be cooked!

Edited September 30, 2010 by Wild Bill

[Michael Hardner]

Jack, just because you and a few of the folks here hated Harris doesn't mean there aren't a great many Ontarioans that remember him fondly enough to vote for Hudak!

I would take "a great many" to mean millions, or maybe 20% of the electorate.

[Wild Bill]

I would take "a great many" to mean millions, or maybe 20% of the electorate.

Probably more! No politician ever wins over 80% of the popular vote! Bob Rae squeaked in with 38%. That leaves 62% that hated him?

[madmax]

Is it too late for him to run for mayor of toronto?

ROTFLMAO>...

[madmax]

Yeah, let's all vote Liberal because of Harper, regardless of how bad that Liberal government has proven to be. Thankfully, I have confidence in the Canadian voter that they won't subscribe to such faulty logic.

I agree. The voters will have time to kick the tires and poke holes in the PC spin doctoring.

I see a Minority coming..... But Its too early to tell for whom.

[madmax]

We'll have the HST,because Hudak won't get rid of it(although he did say he might try to "modify" it)...

Plus,we'll get the good old Tory panacea for all the is wrong with society....More corporate tax cuts off our backs...

The PCs support the HST, but want to capitalize on public anger with it. They need the HST to offset their own desires for Corportate tax cuts. Their fiscal policy is similar to the Liberals considering the Liberals have not changed course from the Harris fiscal agenda. Infact they have continued with it. If the PCs were in power they would bring forth the HST just like Mulroney brought in the GST. The GST and harmonizing it with the Provinces have always been their long term goal. Liberals also support this and that fact is recounted in numerous posts in these forums.

Hudak is trying to play 3 card monte with the HST.

Ironically, he was too weak to text on his Blackberry to Jim Flaherty to tell the finance minister not to give the #4.6 Billion for transfer.

The PCs are happy to see the Liberals take the heat for a policy they believe in.

[madmax]

Hudak is not being compared to Eves. He's being associated with Harris. Harris won TWO HONKIN' HUGE MAJORITIES! There must have been SOME attraction to the man!

A few more electricity bills before the next election and Dalton may be cooked!

Two Majorities and a slew of Poor decisions, incompetence and division to boot. Harris left in his 2nd mandate because he personally was never up to the task. Just doing something and following through even if its stupid, is still stupid.

Ironically McGuinty is different type of Leader but policy wise not all that different from Harris.

Just McGuinty has been a Fiber from day one, whereas Harris mentioned the stupid stuff he was going to do and did it.

Those Electricity bills and these Smart Meters would have been brought in by the PCs if they were in power.

The Electricity mess is part of the Harris Handshake Legacy.

The Liberals never had a policy on Electricity, made statements up on the fly, but policywise have been a NeoCon or NeoLiberal since taking office.

I use the term NeoLiberal as that is the traditional ground of the late 19th and 20century Liberals.

Those policies were later enacted starting with Mulroney, Chretian/Martin, Harper

Provincialy, it began with Harris, Eves, McGuinty in Ontario.

The only real difference is the facevalue of each party and whom they want to spoon feed patronage and contracts too.

Otherwise there isn't much to rave about these two parties.

Nobody said democracy was a great thing, but its the best thing we have.

Thus I refer back to a Minority is coming and I agree.

Daltons time is up.

[Wild Bill]

Two Majorities and a slew of Poor decisions, incompetence and division to boot. Harris left in his 2nd mandate because he personally was never up to the task. Just doing something and following through even if its stupid, is still stupid.

Ironically McGuinty is different type of Leader but policy wise not all that different from Harris.

Just McGuinty has been a Fiber from day one, whereas Harris mentioned the stupid stuff he was going to do and did it.

Those Electricity bills and these Smart Meters would have been brought in by the PCs if they were in power.

The Electricity mess is part of the Harris Handshake Legacy.

The Liberals never had a policy on Electricity, made statements up on the fly, but policywise have been a NeoCon or NeoLiberal since taking office.

I use the term NeoLiberal as that is the traditional ground of the late 19th and 20century Liberals.

Those policies were later enacted starting with Mulroney, Chretian/Martin, Harper

Provincialy, it began with Harris, Eves, McGuinty in Ontario.

The only real difference is the facevalue of each party and whom they want to spoon feed patronage and contracts too.

Otherwise there isn't much to rave about these two parties.

Nobody said democracy was a great thing, but its the best thing we have.

Thus I refer back to a Minority is coming and I agree.

Daltons time is up.

Harris keeping the dumb promises is your opinion, Max. This is the inherent point of this thread. I said earlier that virtually all the Harris slamming I've heard since he left came from the same folks that hated him BEFORE he took power! We have never tested how the electorate truly rated his style of government. Eves was a weak offering and it was a good time for someone new anyway.

Would Hudak have handled the HST the same way? Maybe. I like to think that he would have put in a few exemptions in some key areas to reduce the bite on essentials. The same with the smart meters. Its not so much what Dalton has done as how he implements things. He always just seems to ram the square peg in the round hole and "Devil take the hindmost". Afterwards we have people hurting and yelling and he and his people seem genuinely surprised! Then he goes about damage control after the fact, like with proposals to help folks on fixed incomes with their electricity bills. I mean, even a high school kid could have seen how his electricity strategy was going to hurt those seniors!

It makes it look like the Liberals really don't have a clue what they are doing, like a chess player who may start a good move but can't think more than one move ahead at a time. At the risk of starting some flames, its as if Ontario is being run by teachers, who know what the book says but have "never actually DONE it!"

A minority? I don't think so but I wouldn't be surprised. I sense actual anger building towards the Liberals. That's different than what's happening at the federal level, where what we actually have building is boredom! Angry voters make large voting swings.

I won't agree that most of what Harris did was dumb but I will agree that when he blew it he blew it BIGTIME, like with amalgamation!

[gutb]

Harris?

Cutting welfare payments was pretty nice, but social assistance is just a tiny percentage of the welfare tax-payers have to support. Going after bums apparently is easier than going after monstrous over-employment in the government and public service corporations -- but a minuscule cut is better than no cut at all.

Income tax cuts were good, but the Health Levy was bizarre.

Laying off the nurses felt good, like a small glimmer of justice was being done. Closing the hospitals was bizarre. Once again, image over results; instead of addressing the real failure, taking a shot at an easily-targeted sector of the massive welfare bureaucracy.

Amalgamation did nothing except be a money sink for the welfare bureaucracy.

But what we really remember this guy for? The P word. Selling off public infrastructure -- taking that pig trough Ontario Hydro and transforming it into multiple ravenous lifestyle employment centers. Selling the 407.

Ontario's main industry now is supporting the elite welfare empire, and the system will not accept any changes to that. Expect no help from Hudak, but at least feeling good about having a nominally conservative premier is better than suffering under a fat Liberal party gorged on public funding for another term.

[scribblet]

I agree. The voters will have time to kick the tires and poke holes in the PC spin doctoring.

I see a Minority coming..... But Its too early to tell for whom.

Gosh, you know, they'll have to poke some holes in the Liberal spin doctoring too, in fact McGuinty has a lot of spin doctoring to do. LOL

[Michael Hardner]

It strikes me that Ontario has been trying to find its way back to Bill Davis for 25 years. They liked Peterson, until the early 90s economy went south and they went for far-left, far-right experiments until Dalton McGuinty landed in the premier's chair.

[madmax]

Harris keeping the dumb promises is your opinion, Max. This is the inherent point of this thread. I said earlier that virtually all the Harris slamming I've heard since he left came from the same folks that hated him BEFORE he took power! We have never tested how the electorate truly rated his style of government. Eves was a weak offering and it was a good time for someone new anyway.

Would Hudak have handled the HST the same way? Maybe. I like to think that he would have put in a few exemptions in some key areas to reduce the bite on essentials. The same with the smart meters. Its not so much what Dalton has done as how he implements things. He always just seems to ram the square peg in the round hole and "Devil take the hindmost". Afterwards we have people hurting and yelling and he and his people seem genuinely surprised! Then he goes about damage control after the fact, like with proposals to help folks on fixed incomes with their electricity bills. I mean, even a high school kid could have seen how his electricity strategy was going to hurt those seniors!

It makes it look like the Liberals really don't have a clue what they are doing, like a chess player who may start a good move but can't think more than one move ahead at a time. At the risk of starting some flames, its as if Ontario is being run by teachers, who know what the book says but have "never actually DONE it!"

A minority? I don't think so but I wouldn't be surprised. I sense actual anger building towards the Liberals. That's different than what's happening at the federal level, where what we actually have building is boredom! Angry voters make large voting swings.

I won't agree that most of what Harris did was dumb but I will agree that when he blew it he blew it BIGTIME, like with amalgamation!

I'll accept this posts reply to mine in its entirety

[Molly]

And I'll note that McGuinty's time was up last election, but Tory tied a huge red ribbon around the province and handed it back.

That was the most stunningly huge political brain-cramp I have ever observed- and I've seen a lot of politicians say and do a lot of stupid things. Lifelong Conservatives couldn't vote Conservative with that on the table... and Tory cleraly didn't get it, even when he took it back. Still doesn't.

[Evening Star]

I suspect that I'm the most pro-McGuinty person on this board but even I'm really considering voting NDP next time, especially after the province's handling of G20 security. Hudak terrifies me though. I don't have warm memories of the Harris days. And I just don't agree that McGuinty has stuck with Harris' agenda. Despite governing in rough economic times, they have doubled the number of community health centres (which are great), made some progress on wait times, implemented ambitious reforestation and green energy plans, restricted chemical lawn pesticides, and at least started addressing some of the problems in education, not to mention bringing some needed infrastructure to Windsor. Harris would have never even feigned interest in doing these things.