Katy Perry and Elmo

[DogOnPorch]

Unless they are completely sheltered, 3-4 year old children see women in bikinis on the beach in 'real life.' Do you see anything wrong with that? If so, why? If not, why should they be sheltered from it on television?

I think many men feel threatened by a chick like Katy Perry. Bigger pay-check/cheque, for one. She donna need a Mr Hairy Beard (apologies to Russell Brand) to be on top of the world. Men fear for their balls...and Katy might be hiding a knife...not sure...exactly....where....though...

[sharkman]

For instance, my niece grew up in a home with an abusive father, my brother in law. Screaming and freaking out over things like having his bath towel used by some one else. He was finally prescribed meds which calmed him down somewhat, but then he stopped taking them and became a raging lunatic again. The family finally split up and when he had the kids they'd end up in the back seat parked in the druggie section of Vancouver while he abandoned them to go buy drugs.

The niece turned out amazingly fine. She's a rock and is presently in college making straight A's. So by your standard of I-grew-up-with-it-and-I'm-fine, it's okay for parents to mentally abuse their kids since my niece turned out fine. Which is, of course, nonsense. One single case doesn't prove anything, and it's not about finding single exception cases that support our arguments, it's much bigger than that.

[sharkman]

So just because you 'grew up' with porn and identify yourself as fine on this forum, that doesn't decide the issue beyond a reasonable doubt.

[Hydraboss]

Okay, so you're attracted to her, what argument does that win? I for one am not saying she's not attractive or a hottie. Perhaps getting a handle on your values would be helpful here. Do you think women in bikinis is appropriate for 3-4 yr old children to view?

A handle on my values? Are you actually being serious? What did I say that brings my values into question? I also never said a word about bikinis, so if you're going to screw up another poster's comments do it well.

Bikinis are absolutely appropriate for 3-4 year olds. So if kids go to mom-n-tots swim class, the evil bitch whores wearing the bikinis should be forbidden? Get your head out of your ass.

Katy Perry is hot. She has a great "chest". I guess she could "bind" it down, but I don't think that would be right.... Why so bent out of shape because Katy's boobs show a little? THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG WITH KIDS SEEING THE FEMALE FORM IN THE WAY KATY SHOWED IT. Is that clear enough for you?

[sharkman]

A handle on my values? Are you actually being serious? What did I say that brings my values into question? I also never said a word about bikinis, so if you're going to screw up another poster's comments do it well.

Bikinis are absolutely appropriate for 3-4 year olds. So if kids go to mom-n-tots swim class, the evil bitch whores wearing the bikinis should be forbidden? Get your head out of your ass.

Katy Perry is hot. She has a great "chest". I guess she could "bind" it down, but I don't think that would be right.... Why so bent out of shape because Katy's boobs show a little? THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG WITH KIDS SEEING THE FEMALE FORM IN THE WAY KATY SHOWED IT. Is that clear enough for you?

Yeah, uh, I'm not bent out of shape over this. Perhaps you should reread my take on Perry's appearance on Sesame Street. I don't mind it.

Anyway, I simply was requesting that you share where you are coming from on this issue and your uptight attitude tells me all I need to know about you.

And moms don't wear bikinis to mom-n-tots swim class.

[DogOnPorch]

So just because you 'grew up' with porn and identify yourself as fine on this forum, that doesn't decide the issue beyond a reasonable doubt.

So Playboy is porn? I'm sorry you feel that way. It's mainly just nude women if I recall and a nude woman doesn't qualify as 'porn' in my books...haven't bought one in a while, mind you. Maybe they've gone S&M hardcore with Hef losing his marbles over the years.

[Guest American Woman]

So since they may see bikinis in real life, then that's the standard?

Since they see bikinis in real life, I see no harm in them seeing them on tv. Do you? What would be the difference? And more to the point, why should a child not see a woman in a bikini?

They may also see a gang attack or shooting in their neighborhood every week, but I still think they should be sheltered from gang life, etc.

Are you comparing seeing a woman in a bikini to seeing a gang attack or shooting?? I can think of why they should be sheltered from that too, but I'm still trying to understand how that in any way could be compared to a bikini. Violence, killing = bad/terribly wrong. A crime. Punishable. A woman wearing a bikini? I hope to God you don't think that is bad/terribly wrong. A crime. Punishable.

So what do you think 3-4 y olds should be sheltered from?

Violence. Graphic sex. What do you think they should be sheltered from? I doubt if mothers go hide in the closet when they breastfeed younger siblings. Do you honestly think the fact that women have breasts is something that should be hidden from children? How healthy an attitude do you think that is for girls? For women? To me it leads to the very unhealthy attitude that women who dress this way are "selling sex." What could be more sexist? Seriously.

Edited December 23, 2011 by American Woman

[sharkman]

I was responding in part to your post about dads hiding their 'porn' and kids finding it.

Anyway, it's probably a tempest in a tea pot, really. Katy was dressing up for a wedding, I think, on the show. I do think we should have standards, as does Sesame Street, and hearing the reactions of others has been interesting. I'm honestly not trying to stir something up.

[DogOnPorch]

I was responding in part to your post about dads hiding their 'porn' and kids finding it.

Anyway, it's probably a tempest in a tea pot, really. Katy was dressing up for a wedding, I think, on the show. I do think we should have standards, as does Sesame Street, and hearing the reactions of others has been interesting. I'm honestly not trying to stir something up.

Like you've never opened a Playboy magazine...lol.

Meh...I like you, sharkman. I grew up in the 1960s-70s...there was no "porn" for me to grow-up with other than Playboy and as I mentioned, I do not find women offensive...especially women like my (2nd) wife and Katy Perry.

[sharkman]

Since they see bikinis in real life, I see no harm in them seeing them on tv. Do you? What would be the difference? And more to the point, why should a child not see a woman in a bikini?

Are you comparing seeing a woman in a bikini to seeing a gang attack or shooting?? I can think of why they should be sheltered from that too, but I'm still trying to understand how that in any way could be compared to a bikini. Violence, killing = bad/terribly wrong. A crime. Punishable. A woman wearing a bikini? I hope to God you don't think that is bad/terribly wrong. A crime. Punishable.

Violence. Graphic sex. What do you think they should be sheltered from? I doubt if mothers go hide in the closet when they breastfeed younger siblings. Do you honestly think the fact that women have breasts is something that should be hidden from children? How healthy an attitude do you think that is for girls? For women? To me it leads to the very unhealthy attitude that women who dress this way are "selling sex." What could be more sexist? Seriously.

No it should be clear what I am comparing. I am simply showing you that the they-see-it-on-the-beach-so-its-okay standard is incomplete. Kids see lots of things on the beach and that doesn't make it right.

And I hope that violence and graphic sex are not the only things you think 3-4 yr olds should be sheltered from. What about drug use? What about scenes form horror movies that scare kids into a week of nightmares(note I am not referring to violence. Just scary scenes) What about non-graphic sex? What about frontal nudity? I could go on but I dearly hope you are not fine with all of this too.

The fact that women have breasts is not hidden. But tell me why do teachers in elementary schools or pre-schools not walk around topless? Why don't you walk around town topless? Because it's inappropriate.

[DogOnPorch]

I don't recall any of my male teachers going topless. Good thing, too.

:lol:

[sharkman]

Like you've never opened a Playboy magazine...lol.

Meh...I like you, sharkman. I grew up in the 1960s-70s...there was no "porn" for me to grow-up with other than Playboy and as I mentioned, I do not find women offensive...especially women like my (2nd) wife and Katy Perry.

I can't disagree with that, women are definitely not offensive! Maybe I'm a little more modest than some as I seem to have touched a couple of nerves, however. Oh well, we're just talking, right?

[cybercoma]

So just because you 'grew up' with porn and identify yourself as fine on this forum, that doesn't decide the issue beyond a reasonable doubt.

Speaking of growing up with porn, since the internet has become widely available easy access to porn has come along with it. Although they don't explicitly attribute what's going on to the free and easy access to pornography, I think this article about anal sex pretty much sums up how the media affects the way people relate to one another.

http://jezebel.com/5870164/the-popularity-and-perfectionism-behind-butt-sex

As the Journal of Sexual Medicine announced in 2010, 40% of women age 20-24 report having done it at least once. The number of 18-19 year-olds who've been anally penetrated rose by 20% between 1992 and 2010. Whatever the catalyst for the rise in anal intercourse, its popularity is supported by data as well as anecdote.

In March 2011, Naomi Wolf told The Age that she'd heard from many college health professionals about a troubling rise in the number of female students suffering from "anal fissures caused by sex." A nurse practitioner at a large Southern California university whom I spoke with for this story confirmed that she'd noticed the same worrying phenomenon. "Until recently, I got maybe one question a year about anal sex from a female student. Now, I get several questions a month."

I'm quite fine with consenting adults choosing to have whatever kind of sex suits them. However, if you read the article, the argument is that there is a growing trend of women being pressured into engaging in anal sex against their wishes. This has caused a rise in health problems like female anal fissures. Not only this, but the culture surrounding anal sex is about men deriving pleasure from women's pain during intercourse. While there are healthy ways to engage in heterosexual anal intercourse, forcing someone to do it against their wishes, being so rough that you tear the anus, and taking pleasure in hurting women are all troubling developments that are becoming increasingly common, according to the article.

So, increased access to pornography, even among young adults or teenagers, who've always found access to "playboys" and things in the past, is having a profound impact on sexual relationships. Commodifying Katy Perry's sexuality on shows like Sesame Street from childhood simply makes people more prone to accept the messages they will receive in the future. It's not one particular incident that is the problem, but the incessant maltreatment of women and the commodification of their sexuality that is producing a culture in which they are devalued and dehumanized. Media is sending the wrong messages, period.

[cybercoma]

A handle on my values? Are you actually being serious? What did I say that brings my values into question? I also never said a word about bikinis, so if you're going to screw up another poster's comments do it well.

Bikinis are absolutely appropriate for 3-4 year olds. So if kids go to mom-n-tots swim class, the evil bitch whores wearing the bikinis should be forbidden? Get your head out of your ass.

Katy Perry is hot. She has a great "chest". I guess she could "bind" it down, but I don't think that would be right.... Why so bent out of shape because Katy's boobs show a little? THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG WITH KIDS SEEING THE FEMALE FORM IN THE WAY KATY SHOWED IT. Is that clear enough for you?

What about her music though? She is afterall a musician and according to AW women aren't appreciated for their looks first and foremost, so you must value her musical talent first, right?

[DogOnPorch]

I can't disagree with that, women are definitely not offensive! Maybe I'm a little more modest than some as I seem to have touched a couple of nerves, however. Oh well, we're just talking, right?

Oh, for sure...and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there's also a Mrs Sharkman out there. Some here...I don't get that vibe.

[sharkman]

Oh, for sure...and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there's also a Mrs Sharkman out there. Some here...I don't get that vibe.

Your vibe reader is bang on, we've been married 12 years now. I used to think I knew it all until I got married!

[DogOnPorch]

Your vibe reader is bang on, we've been married 12 years now. I used to think I knew it all until I got married!

Errr...me too....TWICE.

[Guest American Woman]

No it should be clear what I am comparing. I am simply showing you that the they-see-it-on-the-beach-so-its-okay standard is incomplete. Kids see lots of things on the beach and that doesn't make it right.

But it's the "not being right" that makes it wrong. A bikini, a woman's body, is not wrong. So how can children seeing it be wrong? You haven't answered that question. Is it wrong to see a woman in a bikini on a beach? If not, how can it be wrong to see it on tv?

And I hope that violence and graphic sex are not the only things you think 3-4 yr olds should be sheltered from. What about drug use? What about scenes form horror movies that scare kids into a week of nightmares(note I am not referring to violence. Just scary scenes) What about non-graphic sex? What about frontal nudity? I could go on but I dearly hope you are not fine with all of this too.

Well, I didn't realize I had to make my list all encompassing. I gave you an idea of what I do think kids should be sheltered from. Obviously drugs, murders, violence, - and I would think all sex is pretty graphic. The rest, I think, is subjective. Scary movies? I have one daughter who as a pre-schooler loved to sit with her dad and watch scary movies. Like you, I'm not talking violence, either - just scary. She loved them and wasn't scared or upset by them in the least. The other daughter was like me, so one watched, the other didn't.

By the same token, watching Bambi's mother get shot was pretty upsetting for my very-young-at-the-time daughter. "And it wasn't even hunting season," she sobbed. So is Disney taboo? Should kids be sheltered from Disney?

My point is, I don't think there's a definitive list of "good" and "bad." I think that the most important aspect of all of it is that the parents are there, discussing it with the kids, asking them their feelings, responding to their feelings. Kids live in the real world, and they see more than we think they do. If we are hush-hush about it, if we pretend it's not out there, to me, that does the most damage.

The fact that women have breasts is not hidden. But tell me why do teachers in elementary schools or pre-schools not walk around topless? Why don't you walk around town topless? Because it's inappropriate.

Katy Perry wasn't walking around topless, either. She simply was dressed in a way that didn't hide the fact that she has breasts and curves. I think it's a dangerous thing to imply that women who dress in such a way are "selling sex."

[sharkman]

Good post, AW. I am not of the opinion that Perry was selling sex in the Sesame Street episode. I just think there should be standards. Kids should be allowed to grow up without having sex shoved at them from a young age on through various forms of media. Perhaps I am more modest than some, but I think the goal for us posting here is to have healthy kids with no hang ups.

[Guest American Woman]

Good post, AW. I am not of the opinion that Perry was selling sex in the Sesame Street episode. I just think there should be standards. Kids should be allowed to grow up without having sex shoved at them from a young age on through various forms of media. Perhaps I am more modest than some, but I think the goal for us posting here is to have healthy kids with no hang ups.

Thanks. Sounds as if we are pretty much in agreement for the most part.

[cybercoma]

I say sex shouldn't be shoved in kids' faces and I'm entirely wrong. Sharkman says it and you're smilies and high fives.

[msj]

I say sex shouldn't be shoved in kids' faces and I'm entirely wrong. Sharkman says it and you're smilies and high fives.

You are forgetting some important distinctions that have been made here:

Katy Perry can sell sex on her own time. She doesn't need to be reinforcing the commodification of female sexuality on Sesame Street.

Versus:

I am not of the opinion that Perry was selling sex in the Sesame Street episode. I just think there should be standards. Kids should be allowed to grow up without having sex shoved at them from a young age on through various forms of media. Perhaps I am more modest than some, but I think the goal for us posting here is to have healthy kids with no hang ups.

While I agree mostly with AW and Dogonporch on this matter I too see more agreement with sharkman than with you, CC.

You come across as some preachy Muslim or Christian, or, worse, feminazi - all pretty much the same thing when it comes to showing a little bit of - gasp - skin.

[cybercoma]

Ok, Rush Limbaugh. Feminazi is a hateful term used to shut down any debate about female equality in our society. Look up feminist in the dictionary sometime.

[Guest American Woman]

I say sex shouldn't be shoved in kids' faces and I'm entirely wrong. Sharkman says it and you're smilies and high fives.

Ummmm. You said she was "selling sex" because she was wearing a dress that doesn't hide her breasts and curves - while Sharkman said he wasn't of the opinion that she was selling sex.

So try to figure out why one of you is entirely wrong .... while the other is someone I agree with.

[Wild Bill]

Ummmm. You said she was "selling sex" because she was wearing a dress that doesn't hide her breasts and curves - while Sharkman said he wasn't of the opinion that she was selling sex.

So try to figure out why one of you is entirely wrong .... while the other is someone I agree with.

There you have it, AW! CC would've wanted Katy to wear a burha!

Maybe Elmo too, I dunno...