Guest American Woman Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 This is exactly my point. AW take note. You don't need to construct strawman arguments I see you've decided to go with the "strawman" rather than the "troll" response this time, eh? I have "constructed" no "strawman." I have responded directly to your posts, your comments. The fact of the matter is I'm not dictating anything about what Katy Perry should or should not wear. She can wear whatever she damn well pleases. I'm saying that it's not appropriate to be selling sex on a chlidren's show. The fact of the matter is, you are saying what is and isn't appropriate for her to wear on the show, that to show the female form is to "sell sex," and I'm saying the idea that she is "selling sex" is the same mindset as the Muslims who insist that their women cover up. You automatically associate showing the female form - because that's all she's doing - with "selling sex." What kind of mindset do you think that is? What kind of mindset thinks it's not appropriate for children to see a woman wearing clothes that show her female form? Why is that something to cover up? Seems to me it sends the message that it's something to be ashamed of - and of course this judgement is reserved for women. You are engaging in the same behavior that you criticize society for, seeing Katy Perry as "selling sex" simply for wearing a dress that shows the female form. Apparently the producers of Sesame Street thought it was inappropriate enough to pull as well, but I don't see you making the ridiculous leap in logic that they're trying to tell Katy Perry how to dress. Obviously they pulled it because of the feedback; they didn't pull it because they thought it was inappropriate. I haven't seen one comment from them about "selling sex" nor one comment from them as to when it is appropriate to dress as she did. This isn't about how Katy Perry chooses to dress. It's about how Sesame Street chooses to educate children. Would you find that an appropriate outfit for a teacher to be wearing in a classroom? I hate to break it to you, but "Sesame Street" is NOT comparable to a school classroom. It's not their intent to be, and it is most definitely not. Point of fact, you wouldn't find a teacher dressed in a basketball uniform - tank top and shorts - either. Furthermore, I found the "dress up" aspect of it, on a television show that is aimed at children AND parents, quite appropriate. I do not think children should be protected/shielded from the female form. What child would see that as anything "sexual?" The whole idea is preposterous. quite frankly, I thought Katy Perry looked great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 ...but, but, but...she is UNCLEAN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 ...but, but, but...she is UNCLEAN! She's *gasp* a woman - with a woman's body! And she's....she's....she's..... SHOWING IT! She's not hiding it! She's obviously comfortable with the way she looks. The slut! We should never, ever allow a child to see the female form - and any time a woman shows it, she is obviously "selling sex." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Me thinks the closest a few folks posting on MLW have been to a woman lately is YOU. Ewwwwwww...I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Chocolate, Porsches, bikinis and big screen tvs aren't either. May not have been necessary, but DAMN it was nice. I for one really, really like her norms. I think norms on display like that should be the norm. and to think I'm the one people call right-wing socially conservative. Okay, so you're attracted to her, what argument does that win? I for one am not saying she's not attractive or a hottie. Perhaps getting a handle on your values would be helpful here. Do you think women in bikinis is appropriate for 3-4 yr old children to view? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Okay, so you're attracted to her, what argument does that win? I for one am not saying she's not attractive or a hottie. Perhaps getting a handle on your values would be helpful here. Do you think women in bikinis is appropriate for 3-4 yr old children to view? Katy Perry wasn't wearing a bikini in the Elmo vid. Just girl clothes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Me thinks the closest a few folks posting on MLW have been to a woman lately is YOU. Ewwwwwww...I know. Okay, now that you've had a good laugh, tell me what you think would be inappropriate for pre-school children to view. Just curious here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 The Virgin-Whore dichotomy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Katy Perry wasn't wearing a bikini in the Elmo vid. Just girl clothes. Of course, but the other poster brought up how much he likes bikinis, I'm just wondering where he draws the line, like I am you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 The Virgin-Whore dichotomy. Explain please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Okay, now that you've had a good laugh, tell me what you think would be inappropriate for pre-school children to view. Just curious here. Muslim beheading videos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 I don't think you taking me serious yet. That's fine, I just thought I'd try to engage you in conversation. Have a Merry Christmas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Explain please. The duality of woman. Surely you've heard of it. It is displayed on the TV show 'The Sopranos' many times. Men who want women to be whores in bed but the Virgin Mary everywhere else, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest American Woman Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Do you think women in bikinis is appropriate for 3-4 yr old children to view? Unless they are completely sheltered, 3-4 year old children see women in bikinis on the beach in 'real life.' Do you see anything wrong with that? If so, why? If not, why should they be sheltered from it on television? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 I don't think you taking me serious yet. That's fine, I just thought I'd try to engage you in conversation. Have a Merry Christmas. I'm very serious. Children should not view horrible violent acts. Katy Perry...no matter her music...isn't a horrible violent act. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 I don't think you taking me serious yet. That's fine, I just thought I'd try to engage you in conversation. Have a Merry Christmas. Suit yourself. Merry Christmas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Unless they are completely sheltered, 3-4 year old children see women in bikinis on the beach in 'real life.' Do you see anything wrong with that? If so, why? If not, why should they be sheltered from it on television? So since they may see bikinis in real life, then that's the standard? They may also see a gang attack or shooting in their neighborhood every week, but I still think they should be sheltered from gang life, etc. So what do you think 3-4 y olds should be sheltered from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 I'm very serious. Children should not view horrible violent acts. Katy Perry...no matter her music...isn't a horrible violent act. That's it? These pre-school children should be wide open to viewing ANYTHING except muslim be-headings? You see, I just don't believe you think that, so you are not taking me serious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 That's it? These pre-school children should be wide open to viewing ANYTHING except muslim be-headings? You see, I just don't believe you think that, so you are not taking me serious. I don't think children should grow-up to be afraid of sexuality. Telling a 4 year old that Katy Perry is somehow bad for just being Katy Perry isn't going to result in anything good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 I don't think children should grow-up to be afraid of sexuality. Telling a 4 year old that Katy Perry is somehow bad for just being Katy Perry isn't going to result in anything good. Okay. What I'm trying to discover is what your threshold is in this area. Where you would draw the line for pre-school kids. What would you say is the threshold of being inappropriate? BTW, I don't think that kids should be afraid of sexuality either. But there must be a limit to what sexual material you would find inappropriate for this age group, no? And I don't think that your limit now means kids in your care would grow up fearing sexuality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybercoma Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 No one is saying Katy Perry is bad for being Katy Perry. I don't care how Katy Perry dresses in her music videos or at her concerts; although, I question the commodification of female sexuality. Katy Perry doesn't just choose whatever the heck she wants to wear. She is a product that is packaged by a record company to sell units and tickets to her shows. It's funny that the virgin-whore dichotomy is brought up because this is exactly the mentality that the media fosters in people, both male and female today. Women have to be sexy because there's value in that (after all sex sells, but only female sexuality and only if they're hot), but not too sexy or they're whores. Trotting out the commodification of sex, which creates this dysfunction in our society, on a television show designed to educate preschoolers is highly inappropriate. They're already bombarded with gendered notions of their "proper" place in society through the games, toys, and clothing that is available to them. God forbid someone stand up for this ridiculous gender discrimination that seeks to oppress women by placing so much emphasis on the value of their sexuality, while if they're too sexy they're whores. It's an impossible standard meant to keep women subjugated by constantly questioning themselves. This is wholly inappropriate for Sesame Street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 (edited) Okay. What I'm trying to discover is what your threshold is in this area. Where you would draw the line for pre-school kids. What would you say is the threshold of being inappropriate? If Katy actively did something about being Hot and/or Cold on stage rather than just singing about it. BTW, I don't think that kids should be afraid of sexuality either. But there must be a limit to what sexual material you would find inappropriate for this age group, no? And I don't think that your limit now means kids in your care would grow up fearing sexuality. Anything de-humanizing. Save the whips & chains (etc) for when your an adult. But a mere Playboy Bunny, for example? I grew-up with many a Playboy Bunny on the wall. Harmless. Coffeetable material. If it is openly displayed as being OK, I think it is far better than the kid digging it up from some dark hiding place like some dirty secret he/she should be ashamed of. Edited December 23, 2011 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 No one is saying Katy Perry is bad for being Katy Perry. I don't care how Katy Perry dresses in her music videos or at her concerts; although, I question the commodification of female sexuality. Katy Perry doesn't just choose whatever the heck she wants to wear. She is a product that is packaged by a record company to sell units and tickets to her shows. It's funny that the virgin-whore dichotomy is brought up because this is exactly the mentality that the media fosters in people, both male and female today. Women have to be sexy because there's value in that (after all sex sells, but only female sexuality and only if they're hot), but not too sexy or they're whores. Trotting out the commodification of sex, which creates this dysfunction in our society, on a television show designed to educate preschoolers is highly inappropriate. They're already bombarded with gendered notions of their "proper" place in society through the games, toys, and clothing that is available to them. God forbid someone stand up for this ridiculous gender discrimination that seeks to oppress women by placing so much emphasis on the value of their sexuality, while if they're too sexy they're whores. It's an impossible standard meant to keep women subjugated by constantly questioning themselves. This is wholly inappropriate for Sesame Street. Then turn it off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 If Katy actively did something about being Hot and/or Cold on stage rather than just singing about it. Anything de-humanizing. Save the whips & chains (etc) for when your an adult. But a mere Playboy Bunny, for example? I grew-up with many a Playboy Bunny on the wall. Harmless. Coffeetable material. If it is openly displayed as being OK, I think it is far better than the kid digging it up from some dark hiding place like some dirty secret he/she should be ashamed of. Okay, I see your point and understanding your upbringing helps. But I don't think this should be the norm just because you turned out fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted December 23, 2011 Report Share Posted December 23, 2011 Okay, I see your point and understanding your upbringing helps. But I don't think this should be the norm just because you turned out fine. Kids will find your porn stash, dad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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