Tareq Fatah

[betsy]

This man, also author of the book "The Jew Is Not My Enemy," has been very vocal with his views regarding the jihadists and radicalization of the youth.

Mr Fatah, who was on CTV just a few minutes ago said that politicians sitting now are too occupied with their politicking. He called on retired former leaders (naming Chretien and Broadbent), prominent intellectuals of this country...asking why no one with that stature had come out to publicly and strongly denounce radical Islam jihadists in Canada.

He asked why is it only him (Fatah) and a few others who are publicly vocal in trying to do something about this problem....that it is unfair this responsibility be shouldered by ordinary people like him.

He ask if these prominent people will still remain silent if it were Nazis or Supremacists creating troubles in our midst.

And I ask the same thing. Where are our leaders? Where are our former Prime Ministers? The leaders of various rights group?

The few ordinary people like Mr Fatah had placed their lives on the line to speak out in public. Now that he named names....calling on Chretien (who is still very much around)...Broadbent...Margaret Atwood....I am waiting to see who will be brave enough to come forward and speak out.

[scribblet]

I listen to Tareq Fatah now and then on CFRB, he's very good for a liberal -

Most people are afraid to speak out as they will be immediately labelled as racist or Islamophobic, the left has done a pretty good job of labelling and demonizing people.

[William Ashley]

The joke here is that the muslim guy knows all about the radicals.. where are they?

[capricorn]

Mr Fatah, who was on CTV just a few minutes ago said that politicians sitting now are too occupied with their politicking. He called on retired former leaders (naming Chretien and Broadbent), prominent intellectuals of this country...asking why no one with that stature had come out to publicly and strongly denounce radical Islam jihadists in Canada.

He asked why is it only him (Fatah) and a few others who are publicly vocal in trying to do something about this problem....that it is unfair this responsibility be shouldered by ordinary people like him.

He ask if these prominent people will still remain silent if it were Nazis or Supremacists creating troubles in our midst.

And I ask the same thing. Where are our leaders?

The only comment I found from Stephen Harper is this.

"Let's be very clear. These are not the acts of a community. The vast majority of people from this community, like the vast majority of all Canadians, want absolutely nothing to do with this and expect the government to vigorously pursue, and expect our police and security forces to vigorously pursue anybody who dabbles in criminal or worse terrorist activity," Mr. Harper said.

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/toronto/Parliament+Hill+alleged+terror+goal/3453711/story.html

As for Ignatieff, he wants Canadians to calm down and let the justice system play out.

Liberal Leader Michael Ignatieff says the men arrested last week in connection with a suspected terrorism plot in Ottawa are innocent until proven guilty and have rights that need to be respected.

"It's very important for the police and CSIS and the RCMP to do their jobs, but it's also very important to keep that kind of Canadian calm about these matters," Ignatieff told reporters after visiting a market in Nova Scotia as part of his Liberal Express bus tour Sunday.

"We've had threats before, we'll have them again, and we now need to let the police and the courts, above all the courts, do their work."

Ignatieff said the last time a group of Canadians were prosecuted for terrorism-related charges, the "Toronto 18," as they were known, several of them were not convicted.

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Ignatieff+stresses+terror+accused+innocent+until+proven+guilty/3457213/story.html

Interestingly, the above media entry was amended after I first read it. The initial entry had Ignatieff saying that "several of them were acquitted". As I read the original quote, I was thinking an acquittal does not mean you are innocent of the charge. In some cases, it's that there was not enough proof to bring about a conviction or a deal was made in exchange for information helpful in the prosecution of criminals higher in the food chain. "Not being convicted" does sound softer and more conclusive than "being acquitted", doesn't it?

Where are our former Prime Ministers?

Frankly Betsy, the less I hear from those people the better. I want them out of my face to enjoy their gold plated retirement.

The leaders of various rights group?

They're probably still deciding whether to speak out or not. A lot of those rights groups have lawyers working for them, sometimes sharing the same lawyers, who may end up defending one or more of the accused. I would guess most of these so-called rights groups will end up sitting on the fence.

Mr. Fatah is courageous to speak out in spite of the threats of violence that have been made against him. Some local Muslim leaders in Ottawa have also denounced terrorist acts and asked that we let the justice system take its course.

[betsy]

I listen to Tareq Fatah now and then on CFRB, he's very good for a liberal -

Most people are afraid to speak out as they will be immediately labelled as racist or Islamophobic, the left has done a pretty good job of labelling and demonizing people.

Yes, he's in quite a few talk shows. He's a regular at Michael Coren. He is quite outspoken despite the death threats he gets.....I admire this man.

Two other females from Muslim Canadian Congress came out strongly the last week....I've never seen them before. One went head-to-head opposing, clarifying and challenging another Muslim guy at Evan Solomon.

She's quite fiery and so sensible in her opinion.

Labels do intimidate most from speaking out strongly - and I would emphasize thatt word "strongly" - and I also think most are afraid to be given the sentence of a fatwa, or targetted by radicals like the stabbing of a film director in (was it Sweden?).

[betsy]

The joke here is that the muslim guy knows all about the radicals.. where are they?

Actually, these three outspoken individuals all point to the IMAMS as largely responsible for the radicalization of the youth. All three are saying the Imams are not doing enough....or are doing nil....in helping to stop the radicalization. They say the Imams would not issue a STRONG DENOUNCEMENT of the jihad....that the Imams would not clarify to the youth that what the terrorists are doing are not part of the real Islam doctrine.

One went as far as saying that if an Imam remains silent....then it means he approves of the jihadist violence!

One of the women made an appeal that now "is not the time to be politically correct." She is fighting for her children.

[betsy]

As for Ignatieff, he wants Canadians to calm down and let the justice system play out.

Some local Muslim leaders in Ottawa have also denounced terrorist acts and asked that we let the justice system take its course.

Speaking of the justice system....I don't think home-grown terrorism should be treated just like any other criminal act.

Sabotage. Treason. Since we can't send these Canadian citizens back to their country of origin, and since we no longer execute men guilty of treason....a very stiff sentence like life without parole should be enforced.

The doors to Canada had been thrown wide open, immigration and refugee system became a joke.....and now that we see the disastrous result from the broken system.....the public is just thrown to deal with wolves!

[scribblet]

I too admire Tareq Fatah, it's too bad there aren't more like him willing to speak out against the radicals. I see that as a problem, even when listening to a talk show about the recent arrests, none the Muslims calling in actually condemned the alleged terrorist actions, I've rarely heard any of them condemn any terrorist outright.

[CANADIEN]

I too admire Tareq Fatah, it's too bad there aren't more like him willing to speak out against the radicals. I see that as a problem, even when listening to a talk show about the recent arrests, none the Muslims calling in actually condemned the alleged terrorist actions, I've rarely heard any of them condemn any terrorist outright.

Like Muslims should waste their time listening or phoning to talk shows considering that most of the people phoning there and quite a few of the hosts spend their time engaging in hate-mongering. Also, considering that most of the time, when ever a Muslim dares to speak against violence of any sort the response will be "it's Muslims who did it".

Besides, why should any individuals who have not committed a hateful or criminal act have a special obligation to go out of their way to speak against them?

[PIK]

Like Muslims should waste their time listening or phoning to talk shows considering that most of the people phoning there and quite a few of the hosts spend their time engaging in hate-mongering. Also, considering that most of the time, when ever a Muslim dares to speak against violence of any sort the response will be "it's Muslims who did it".

Besides, why should any individuals who have not committed a hateful or criminal act have a special obligation to go out of their way to speak against them?

Talk radio is not a waste ,it is the last thing we have where people from all over can engage in a debate and CFRA is the last of these stations that do it and alot of muslims call in with thier take on things. But it seems iggy and the libs are not taking this serious and they probably see some votes here. If there is a convoy of tamils coming this way ,you can quarentee they won't do a thing but process them and send them to toronto telling them is you vote con they will throw you out of the country. If it is true they reported 22 million already spent on the 492 that just came ashore. 11 million a week ,people.But yet people with cancer that need certain expensives pills to live are denied by mcguinty goverment. Edited August 30, 2010 by PIK

[CANADIEN]

Talk radio is not a waste ,it is the last thing we have where people from all over can engage in a debate and CFRA is the last of these stations that do it and alot of muslims call in with thier take on things. But it seems iggy and the libs are not taking this serious and they probably see some votes here. If there is a convoy of tamils coming this way ,you can quarentee they won't do a thing but process them and send them to toronto telling them is you vote con they will throw you out of the country. If it is true they reported 22 million already spent on the 492 that just came ashore. 11 million a week ,people.But yet people with cancer that need certain expensives pills to live are denied by mcguinty goverment.

The fact the issue of Tamil refugee claimants have nothing to do with this thread aside, I sued to listen to CFRB a lot. Was good for a hearty laugh most of the time.

[ToadBrother]

Sabotage. Treason. Since we can't send these Canadian citizens back to their country of origin, and since we no longer execute men guilty of treason....a very stiff sentence like life without parole should be enforced.

Both these have pretty explicit meanings. I don't think sabotage applies at all. Treason might be applicable if you could show that they were operating under the instructions of a foreign power or organization, though I wonder if the non-state status of international terrorist groups would make such a charge almost impossible. Now if they were shown, say, to be planning on attack on Rideau Hall, I think the old treason laws, if they have any force of law in Canada, could be applied.

[betsy]

Both these have pretty explicit meanings. I don't think sabotage applies at all. Treason might be applicable if you could show that they were operating under the instructions of a foreign power or organization, though I wonder if the non-state status of international terrorist groups would make such a charge almost impossible. Now if they were shown, say, to be planning on attack on Rideau Hall, I think the old treason laws, if they have any force of law in Canada, could be applied.

I'm just curious.....do we really still have any treason laws, or has it been scrapped? I don't think I ever heard anyone from politics or the law mention it at anytime for years now.

[betsy]

Deleted. Something's wrong with my computer. It's double posting.

Edited August 31, 2010 by betsy

[betsy]

Like Muslims should waste their time listening or phoning to talk shows considering that most of the people phoning there and quite a few of the hosts spend their time engaging in hate-mongering. Also, considering that most of the time, when ever a Muslim dares to speak against violence of any sort the response will be "it's Muslims who did it".

Depends on the show. I imagine there are some Jerry Springer-type of show that thrives only on sensationalism. There are trashy shows.

Not only are they informative, phone-in or talk shows (and I'm talking about political ones) gives the people a chance to vent. Frustration is lessened when you see someone venting it out for you.

Besides, why should any individuals who have not committed a hateful or criminal act have a special obligation to go out of their way to speak against them?

There are people who are "doers." These folks had taken on the task to try to help by explaining to the public what's going on inside some mosques....the attitudes of the Imams....etc, These folks are worried about what might be backlash against all Muslims - everyone being lumped together.

These folks are bravely showing Canadians where they firmly stand....leading through example by giving a strong public denouncement of jihadists and Hamas. True, it is not an obligation....but they chose to do it....out of frustration perhaps over the lack of response from notable people who should be speaking out but so far, had remained silent. These people are risking their lives for this.

In a way, they are heroes.

[scribblet]

Like Muslims should waste their time listening or phoning to talk shows considering that most of the people phoning there and quite a few of the hosts spend their time engaging in hate-mongering. Also, considering that most of the time, when ever a Muslim dares to speak against violence of any sort the response will be "it's Muslims who did it".

Besides, why should any individuals who have not committed a hateful or criminal act have a special obligation to go out of their way to speak against them?

I haven't heard any hosts engage in 'hate mongering', stations wouldn't allow it, you obviously don't listen to talk radio because if you did, you would know that Muslims do listen and phone in. As I said, I have never heard any of them actually condemn the terrorists outright.

If they care about their faith and community, they would speak out, unless they are really afraid to do it.

[Wild Bill]

I'm just curious.....do we really still have any treason laws, or has it been scrapped? I don't think I ever heard anyone from politics or the law mention it at anytime for years now.

If we do still have laws, they are ignored, Betsy. You may remember there was a case during the Serbian-Croatian war in the early 90's where a 2nd generation young man of Serbian descent went back to Serbia to fight AGAINST Canadian soldiers and the other Allied nations! He was discovered fighting for the "other side" but still claimed the rights of Canadian citizenship!

Naturally, there were a lot of "useful idiots" over here who supported him!

When the conflict was over he had announced he intended to return to Canada and that caused a brief flap in the news. However, despite the fact that I follow the media rather closely I never heard anything about how this was resolved! Either I totally missed it or more likely, he was taken back but it was hushed up!

While the flap was on there were many cries that what the young man had done was by definition an act of treason. There were other cries about hyphenated Canadians who have stronger loyalties to their old country than to Canada.

I would love to find out just what was resolved. Perhaps someone can help out!

[capricorn]

I too admire Tareq Fatah, it's too bad there aren't more like him willing to speak out against the radicals. I see that as a problem, even when listening to a talk show about the recent arrests, none the Muslims calling in actually condemned the alleged terrorist actions, I've rarely heard any of them condemn any terrorist outright.

One reason they're not speaking out to condemn the jihadist form of terrorism is that they're more preoccupied with making the case that they are victims and fear a backlash from the wider community.

No sooner did news of the Ottawa Terror Plot unfold on national TV, than one could predict the response of Canada's Islamists and their organizations.

Across Canada, apologists of the terror suspects repeated the same mantra. The three men arrested were portrayed as "innocent" and the wider Muslim community was positioned as the real victims of the episode. It was as if the Islamist leadership had dusted off the speaking notes from the days of the Toronto 18 trials when leader after leader stood up to claim the young men arrested were framed, not real terrorists.

As Muslim Canadians, both of us, while asking for the due judicial process to take its course, had no hesitation in condemning the rising tide of jihadi radicalism that is sweeping like a contagious disease among Muslim youth, especially of Pakistani ancestry, across Canada. However, by and large the leadership of traditional Islamist organizations and the mosque establishment repeated the now tired and cliché-ridden depiction of Muslims as the real victims.

---

If individual Muslim Canadians were pushing the victimhood agenda, their organizations were doing no better. The Canadian Islamic Congress, which supported the introduction of Shariah law in Canada, issued a statement saying:

"Canadian Muslims, more than other citizens, are deeply concerned and disturbed ... especially about the psychological, social and emotional impact of these arrests on the wellbeing of Canadian Muslims." One was left scratching one's head: What about non-Muslim Canadians who were allegedly the real targets of these suspected terrorists? The CIC statement went further. It expressed concern about "how these arrests would be managed in Canada and what kind of impact the media reports will have on Canadian citizens of Muslim faith." Added to the spin was the accusation of journalistic "sensationalism, prejudgment, or speculation."

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/struggle+against+jihad/3462217/story.html

And the authors had this to say about Ignatieff's comments on the arrest of the alleged terrorists.

Unfortunately, the Muslim victimhood agenda was helped by the leader of the Liberal Party, Michael Ignatieff, who stepped into the fray by claiming that the terror suspects need to be treated as innocent. He then made this outrageous remark: "It's important for Canadians to realize in the Toronto case, the courts acquitted many people."

Not true, Mr. Ignatieff. While charges were dropped in some cases, not a single member of the Toronto terror plot tried by the courts was acquitted. Everyone who was tried before the court was either convicted or confessed. As card-carrying Liberals, we were shocked to read how our leader was buying in to the Islamist agenda.

Read the rest of the article to get an insight into what is going on in some of our schools and mosques. Here's a sample.

As you read this column, young Islamists in campuses across Canada are distributing free booklets titled Towards Understanding Islam, written by Maudoodi. In the booklet, Maudoodi exhorts ordinary Muslims to launch jihad, as in armed struggle, against non-Muslims.

"Jihad is part of this overall defence of Islam," he writes. In case the reader is left with any doubt about the meaning of the word "jihad," Maudoodi clarifies: "In the language of the Divine Law, this word (jihad) is used specifically for the war that is waged solely in the name of God against those who perpetrate oppression as enemies of Islam. This supreme sacrifice is the responsibility of all Muslims."

Peace loving Muslims had better grow a spine. Their youth are at risk of falling into this murderous ideology. Canadian society will pay the price if this cancer remains unchecked.

[ToadBrother]

I'm just curious.....do we really still have any treason laws, or has it been scrapped? I don't think I ever heard anyone from politics or the law mention it at anytime for years now.

http://www.canadalegal.com/gosite.asp?s=92

Yup, treason is still on the books. The trouble is how you define terrorist organizations, which are not foreign states, and in most, if not all cases are not armed forces of any kind. If a Canadian citizen like Omar Khadr had been attacking Canadian troops in Afghanistan, then I think you could make a treason charge stick. If it's some local terrorists who may not in fact be acting on the commands of anyone else, well, then, it probably wouldn't apply... unless of course they went after the Queen (and I have a hunch, by extension, the Governor General, hence my reference to Rideau Hall).

[Muddy]

We Canadians are not made of the same moral fiber and character as past generations who were not afraid to call a spade a spade. TREASON!. That is what the charge should be for those who would do treasonous acts against this country and you and I. Canadian citizenship should mean something special.Right now terrorism is conducted by those in the Islamic faith. Anyone who deny that have no credibility.The terrorists argue that they conduct their treason because of wars being conducted in the middle east. Why is it then that the majority of the terrorists are Saudi Arabia a very rich nation and Pakistan? Lets face facts Canadians! We are at war with extremists and all of us ,including our fellow Canadians who are of the Islamic faith must step forward and march shoulder to shoulder as Canadians. Tarek is a very brave man. We should do everything to encourage and give this chap the courage to soldier on with the truth that he so bravely espouses.

[Smallc]

We Canadians are not made of the same moral fiber and character as past generations who were not afraid to call a spade a spade. TREASON!. That is what the charge should be for those who would do treasonous acts against this country and you and I.

Well, I'm afraid you can't blame we Canadians for laws that were written in the past. If the charge doesn't fit, then it can't be.

[Muddy]

Well, I'm afraid you can't blame we Canadians for laws that were written in the past. If the charge doesn't fit, then it can't be.

Because a law or charter is wrong ,that should not mean we should not revisit the law.

[Smallc]

Because a law or charter is wrong ,that should not mean we should not revisit the law.

Why would we, when there are other charges that fit?

[betsy]

http://www.canadalegal.com/gosite.asp?s=92

Yup, treason is still on the books. The trouble is how you define terrorist organizations, which are not foreign states, and in most, if not all cases are not armed forces of any kind. If a Canadian citizen like Omar Khadr had been attacking Canadian troops in Afghanistan, then I think you could make a treason charge stick. If it's some local terrorists who may not in fact be acting on the commands of anyone else, well, then, it probably wouldn't apply... unless of course they went after the Queen (and I have a hunch, by extension, the Governor General, hence my reference to Rideau Hall).

These latest home-grown terrorist suspects, I didn't get if they were allegedly plotting to do the crime in Canadian soil....or if they were supposed to do it elsewhere.

Now, if I'm not mistaken it was also said they were allegedly making bombs or weapons for the Taliban in Afghanistan. Since we're fighting a war against the Taliban in Afghanistan, will that not be considered treasonous I wonder.

[bloodyminded]

There are people who are "doers." These folks had taken on the task to try to help by explaining to the public what's going on inside some mosques....the attitudes of the Imams....etc, These folks are worried about what might be backlash against all Muslims - everyone being lumped together.

These folks are bravely showing Canadians where they firmly stand....leading through example by giving a strong public denouncement of jihadists and Hamas. True, it is not an obligation....but they chose to do it....out of frustration perhaps over the lack of response from notable people who should be speaking out but so far, had remained silent. These people are risking their lives for this.

In a way, they are heroes.

There are many others speaking out, but we don't hear about them. Some are far more courageous than those you mention...and the reason we don't hear about them is that they propose the "wrong" narrative.

Malalai Joya, Afghanistan's youngest MP and a liberal feminist by philosophical inclination, has been speaking otu against the Taliban and the Warlords for years. She lives under constant death threats.

Most of them from our Afghan allies.

She speaks out against Islamic radicals (unlike us, who are allied with them); she speaks on behalf of women's rights, children's rights, and the oppression of minorities and of the poor.

But since she doesn't hold to the amusing narrative--that the West is battling terrorism and medieval Islamists, but actually supports it--everyone closes their ears and says "no one" (except for those Muslims who believe there is an American-led campaign to rid the world of barbarism) is saying exactly what people like her are saying.

As for Imams...on another post, Dre linked us to several prominenet Imamas speaking out unequivocally against hate and jihadist violence. Just because CTV et al aren't intersted, doesn't mean they don't exist.

Edited September 3, 2010 by bloodyminded