More aid for Pakistan

[Argus]

Baird announced the feds will match all private donations to Pakistan in addition to about $30 million Canada has already donated. My question is; why?

Why should we be giving Pakistan any money at all? For that matter, why are we giving them tens of millions a year in foreign aid? This is a country which has nuclear weapons it seems able to pay for. It's a country with something like 700,000 active duty military personnel. It's a country which is massively corrupt on every level, starting with the prime minister's office. It's a country whose intelligence services largely created the Taliban and continue to support them.

A country with 700,000 military personnel needs our help to take care of flood victims?

[Yesterday]

Of course, first reaction from any good citizen group would be/is too help. But dammit Argus, you make some good points.

It is no mere coincidence that an impoverished society breeds tyranny because beggars are not choosers. Without property and the right to use, augment and enjoy it, the individual may be effectively stripped of his livelyhood and so disarmed of his will as to be incapable of effectively asserting or defending any human right....Morris C. Shumaitcher 1988.

I have to wonder how much of this aid money will actually be used for the people. I myself have to contribute somehow to aid these people but I will do my research first to make sure my contribution will get used properly. I wouldn't depend so much on any of our governments to ensure so themselves. Pakistan is better off than the picture painted by focusing on it's citizens but it is a heavily concentrated wealth and I wonder given this, if the infrastructure that should of been present to cope with this just wasn't there regardless of how it looked before the disaster.

For myself, I have little enthusiasm for a species of Liberty that can only profit vagabonds...(the rest of the quote doesn't apply so snip here)Philippe-Joseph De Gaspe.

It is always important to try and ensure how aid funds are handled. There is not such a good track record for agencies or recieving/giving governments in handling said monies.

[Kanadischer]

Baird announced the feds will match all private donations to Pakistan in addition to about $30 million Canada has already donated. My question is; why?

Why should we be giving Pakistan any money at all? For that matter, why are we giving them tens of millions a year in foreign aid? This is a country which has nuclear weapons it seems able to pay for. It's a country with something like 700,000 active duty military personnel. It's a country which is massively corrupt on every level, starting with the prime minister's office. It's a country whose intelligence services largely created the Taliban and continue to support them.

A country with 700,000 military personnel needs our help to take care of flood victims?

They don't deserve a damn penny. We have our own people dying on the streets, from simple things like starvation. We need to clean this country up, even before thinking about helping another country...and we better think long & hard before helping Pakistan...

The sheeple known as "Canadians" will always allow their white guilt to get the better of them and they will always bend over backwards to prove they're not racist. Time to hop off the bandwagon.

[GostHacked]

1/5th of Pakistan is affected by the floods.

Over 4 million people are homeless, and need medical aid and food.

I would assume that part of their military has been incapacitated because of the floods.

This all makes for a huge crisis in Pakistan.

I am sure if something like this happened to Canada we'd be happy to get aid from any country. And yes we have people dying in our own streets, and we can only blame ourselves and our government for that. So how do we fix that?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1303787/Pakistan-floods-Nick-Clegg-describes-international-response-absolutely-pitiful.html

This article is claiming 20 million are homeless.

How much aid did we give to Haiti?

[ToadBrother]

Baird announced the feds will match all private donations to Pakistan in addition to about $30 million Canada has already donated. My question is; why?

Why should we be giving Pakistan any money at all? For that matter, why are we giving them tens of millions a year in foreign aid? This is a country which has nuclear weapons it seems able to pay for. It's a country with something like 700,000 active duty military personnel. It's a country which is massively corrupt on every level, starting with the prime minister's office. It's a country whose intelligence services largely created the Taliban and continue to support them.

A country with 700,000 military personnel needs our help to take care of flood victims?

As a general rule, I'd disagree with you, but I'm having a hard time giving the Pakistan relief effort money. Pakistan is one of the black holes of central Asia; corrupt, threatening to its neighbors, and indeed spending untold amounts of money on nuclear and conventional military programs. I suppose the only thing I can say to it is that it's wrong to blame the average Pakistani for the conduct of their government. Some people have argued that we should help so as to dilute the aid that the Taliban and other Islamist groups are giving, and that's probably a good point, but I still have problems sending money to a nation that so obviously despises Western values. It's not as if the Pakistani government is going to stop being a bizarre schizoid mess, half of it pro-Western and battling the terrorists, and the other half basically being terrorists.

I tend to agree with a number of historical commentators. Pakistan is the country that should never have been.

[Kanadischer]

1/5th of Pakistan is affected by the floods.

Over 4 million people are homeless, and need medical aid and food.

I would assume that part of their military has been incapacitated because of the floods.

This all makes for a huge crisis in Pakistan.

I am sure if something like this happened to Canada we'd be happy to get aid from any country. And yes we have people dying in our own streets, and we can only blame ourselves and our government for that. So how do we fix that?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1303787/Pakistan-floods-Nick-Clegg-describes-international-response-absolutely-pitiful.html

This article is claiming 20 million are homeless.

How much aid did we give to Haiti?

Haiti shouldn't have received a penny from anyone, it was a natural disaster, not an explosion, or a corrupt dictator; it was something inevitable.

You're right, we can only blame ourselves, and our government for the homeless we have in Canada. However, we can only blame ourselves, along with our government if no one fixes it. Pulling the blame card accomplishes nothing. With that said, the same thing can be said about the Pakistani's. They have a corrupt government because they let it happen. Why waste our hard earned money on a country which doesn't help us out? It's no wonder we are in so much debt. We give more money than we make!

[GostHacked]

Haiti shouldn't have received a penny from anyone, it was a natural disaster, not an explosion, or a corrupt dictator; it was something inevitable.

You're not very good as a troll, but keep trying. But in response : So people who suffer during environmental disasters should not be helped? Or do we give them aid and not money?

You're right, we can only blame ourselves, and our government for the homeless we have in Canada. However, we can only blame ourselves, along with our government if no one fixes it. Pulling the blame card accomplishes nothing. With that said, the same thing can be said about the Pakistani's. They have a corrupt government because they let it happen. Why waste our hard earned money on a country which doesn't help us out? It's no wonder we are in so much debt. We give more money than we make!

We can blame ourselves for supporting and giving aid to someone like Musharraf since 2001. Remember he took over the country in a military coup.

[Michael Hardner]

We have our own people dying on the streets, from simple things like starvation.

Since you brought this up - are you proposing raising welfare rates, providing more social housing or some similar programme ?

[M.Dancer]

Since you brought this up - are you proposing raising welfare rates, providing more social housing or some similar programme ?

I am interested in who this peson is and how did they die of starvation on our streets...

[Smallc]

I am interested in who this peson is and how did they die of starvation on our streets...

So am I.

[dre]

Baird announced the feds will match all private donations to Pakistan in addition to about $30 million Canada has already donated. My question is; why?

Why should we be giving Pakistan any money at all? For that matter, why are we giving them tens of millions a year in foreign aid? This is a country which has nuclear weapons it seems able to pay for. It's a country with something like 700,000 active duty military personnel. It's a country which is massively corrupt on every level, starting with the prime minister's office. It's a country whose intelligence services largely created the Taliban and continue to support them.

A country with 700,000 military personnel needs our help to take care of flood victims?

The reality is that Pakistan is not going to disband its military to deal with this crisis. You could start a thread to address the wisdom of Pakistan maintaining the military it has, and it might be interesting but it has absolutely nothing to do with what our policy should be in terms of providing humanitarian assistance to other countries.

This is just a big red herring.

[Shwa]

Baird announced the feds will match all private donations to Pakistan in addition to about $30 million Canada has already donated. My question is; why?

Why should we be giving Pakistan any money at all? For that matter, why are we giving them tens of millions a year in foreign aid? This is a country which has nuclear weapons it seems able to pay for. It's a country with something like 700,000 active duty military personnel. It's a country which is massively corrupt on every level, starting with the prime minister's office. It's a country whose intelligence services largely created the Taliban and continue to support them.

A country with 700,000 military personnel needs our help to take care of flood victims?

Its good business sense, that's why.

For the "humanitarian" reasons, extra cash can help pay for the things that are required for such unexpected disasters and they will go mostly to the people affected or to fund services that we will provide. I wouldn't doubt that it will go to pay some good salaries for Canadian aid workers, doctors, nurses or the Canadian manufacturers of aid related materials such a tents, portable hospitals, toilets, water purification systems, medicines, etc.

But on the other side of things, all those nuclear and military areas means potential markets for Canadian equipment and expertise. 700,000 troops with a Canadian made doo-dad at a prime discount of rate $100.00 each works out to be a decent investment. As doo-dads go anyways. Probably 30 million is a drop in the bucket compared to how much money we do in business with Pakistan anyways.

[M.Dancer]

I think one solution could be, instead of giving cash which would no doubty be lost in corruption,we should be extending credits which could be used to buy Canadian products. I'm sure though that would not stop the bribes and graft, but it would make it easier.

Unfortunately the things they may need like food and emergency shelters are the things they do not want from us...they prefer cash.

[GostHacked]

I think one solution could be, instead of giving cash which would no doubty be lost in corruption,we should be extending credits which could be used to buy Canadian products. I'm sure though that would not stop the bribes and graft, but it would make it easier.

Unfortunately the things they may need like food and emergency shelters are the things they do not want from us...they prefer cash.

Canadian products would be too expensive for them, this is why they would buy it all from China like we do anyways.

[M.Dancer]

Canadian products would be too expensive for them, this is why they would buy it all from China like we do anyways.

Nothing is too expensive when it's free.

[dre]

I think one solution could be, instead of giving cash which would no doubty be lost in corruption,we should be extending credits which could be used to buy Canadian products. I'm sure though that would not stop the bribes and graft, but it would make it easier.

Unfortunately the things they may need like food and emergency shelters are the things they do not want from us...they prefer cash.

LOL. Even Canadians avoid buying Canadian products unless there isnt a cheaper option (and there almost always is).

[M.Dancer]

LOL. Even Canadians avoid buying Canadian products unless there isnt a cheaper option (and there almost always is).

iPhones aren't cheaper than Blackberrys

[GostHacked]

Nothing is too expensive when it's free.

Wow you got anything tangible to post in any thread? I used to have some respect for your posts, as of late, that view has seriously been changed. I wonder if I am reading your posts wrong, or in the wrong voice. Maybe I'll try reading it in Farnsworth's voice.

[M.Dancer]

Wow you got anything tangible to post in any thread? I used to have some respect for your posts, as of late, that view has seriously been changed. I wonder if I am reading your posts wrong, or in the wrong voice. Maybe I'll try reading it in Farnsworth's voice.

Explain how,if you are giving someone credits to buy something from you, that the product you are giving for free would be too expensive?

I'm a sorry if you didn't like my response to your comment, but seriously....

Ottawa: Here Ackmed, here are 3000 credits to spend in canada

Ackmed: Sorry, Canada is too expensive...

[GostHacked]

Explain how,if you are giving someone credits to buy something from you, that the product you are giving for free would be too expensive?

Then why not just give them the products without the need for this credit system? Seems like an unnecessary step.

If they have to buy Canadian products with that money, then you can guarantee that it wont go very far. We give incentives to companies to stay in Canada, and yet they send jobs overseas because they are cheaper.

Besides what products do we make that Pakistan would be interested in in terms of aid?

Ottawa: Here Ackmed, here are 3000 credits to spend in canada

Ackmed: Sorry, Canada is too expensive...

It's a reality.

[dre]

Explain how,if you are giving someone credits to buy something from you, that the product you are giving for free would be too expensive?

I'm a sorry if you didn't like my response to your comment, but seriously....

Ottawa: Here Ackmed, here are 3000 credits to spend in canada

Ackmed: Sorry, Canada is too expensive...

I actually like your Idea morris, and I think it could be incorporated at least in part. A lot of the things required to deal with an emergency are just regular products... things like food, blankets, temporary shelters etc. In some cases an idea like yours would make sense.

In some cases though the stipulation that these products must be bought from Canada might make it a lot slower to get these goods into the disaster zone. In such cases you could waive the "Buy Canadian" requirement.

In many cases though aid is not just products and goods but money to help the government of the disaster zone with mass mobilization of human resources, and things like that, where a "Buy Canadian" provision doesnt necessarily apply.

But I would support your idea as something that could be incorporated into our aid regime, I just dont think you could make it an iron clad rule.

[dre]

Then why not just give them the products without the need for this credit system? Seems like an unnecessary step.

If they have to buy Canadian products with that money, then you can guarantee that it wont go very far. We give incentives to companies to stay in Canada, and yet they send jobs overseas because they are cheaper.

Besides what products do we make that Pakistan would be interested in in terms of aid?

It's a reality.

Then why not just give them the products without the need for this credit system? Seems like an unnecessary step.

Well... the government of the disaster zone could supply the Canadian government with a list of products and goods they need. The Canadian government could purchase those things here in Canada and facilitate their speedy delivery to the disaster zone.

Besides what products do we make that Pakistan would be interested in in terms of aid?

These things could include food products, vehicles, tents, blankets, temporary shelters, pumps, fire fighting equipment, desalination equipment, water purification equipment, clothing, shoes, boots, boats, cranes, medicine, etc etc. Most of these things are either made in Canada or are available to be purchased in Canada. Im sure theres lots more but thats just off the top of my head.

In many cases aid is used not just for disaster mitigation but also reconstruction and recovery. This would bring all kinds of building materials and construction services into the fold. Carpentars, cement, steel, tools, etc etc etc.

Edited August 23, 2010 by dre

[GostHacked]

Well... the government of the disaster zone could supply the Canadian government with a list of products and goods they need. The Canadian government could purchase those things here in Canada and facilitate their speedy delivery to the disaster zone.

In the end that is something I can get behind.

These things could include food products, vehicles, tents, blankets, temporary shelters, pumps, fire fighting equipment, desalination equipment, water purification equipment, clothing, shoes, boots, boats, cranes, medicine, etc etc. Most of these things are either made in Canada or are available to be purchased in Canada. Im sure theres lots more but thats just off the top of my head.

Well I see that now.

M. Dancer , accept my apology. I am having a pissy day all around and that was not right.

[Smallc]

We do still make many things here.

Edited August 23, 2010 by Smallc

[GostHacked]

We do still make many things here.

Indeed. I buy Terra saftey boots/shoes. They are slightly cheaper than other brands and have the same quality or better.