Ontario Auto insurance

[Alta4ever]

How ab out a third of the price? Maybe not quite, but seriously reduced for Calgary vs TO.

I did a quote, $928 -$1045 was the range. I used Calgary SW area code. I assume thats inner city Calgary.

Currently I pay $3814 , one slightly better than "bad" speeding ticket.

Small c, guyser just proved you wrong too. You studies aren't worth jack! Stop living in the hypothetical world of the university campus and start living in the real one.

[Smallc]

Small c, guyser just proved you wrong too. You studies aren't worth jack! Stop living in the hypothetical world of the university campus and start living in the real one.

WTF are you talking about? I don't even go to university. The studies are worth more than any anectodatal evidence, and that is probalby close to what you'd pay for what we call base insurance (far more than base in Ontario) in Manitoba.

[Alta4ever]

WTF are you talking about? I don't even go to university. The studies are worth more than any anectodatal evidence, and that is probalby close to what you'd pay for what we call base insurance (far more than base in Ontario) in Manitoba.

So describe what you think your base coverage covers.

[Alta4ever]

Man your slow for knowing so much let me fill you in.

You have all perils coverage to a limit $50,000. All perils is the blending of Collision and comprehensive cover under one deducible which is under your basic $500. The wordings are pretty standard on those two coverages. Your basic coverage includes liability cover to the tune of $200,000 the manditory minimum, pretty pathetic.

You actually have to buy down your deductible and buy up to a decent liability limit.

Edited August 26, 2010 by Alta4ever

[Alta4ever]

My vehicles quoted through mpi assuming I get the 25% discount.

Basic Insurance Premium

$1,196

$1,177

Deductible

$0

$0

Third Party Liability

$22

$22

Maximum Insured Value

$220

$330

Interest and Administration Fee

$0

$0

Total Insurance Cost

$1,438

$1,529

Registration Charge

$119

$119

Plate Use Charge

$7

$7

Total Registration Cost

$126

$126

TOTAL ESTIMATE

$1,564

$1,655

just a little different smallc can you studies account for that?

Not to mention you are a no fault jurisdiction meaning you do not have access to the courts.

Edited August 26, 2010 by Alta4ever

[Alta4ever]

according to your study on insurance costs I should be paying way less, qualifying for the maximum discount.

[Smallc]

Right, that's for one vehicle. On the average, rates are lower and coverage is higher (no one has 200k liability or $500 deductible). I'm not sure why that's so hard for you to understand.

[Alta4ever]

Right, that's for one vehicle. On the average, rates are lower and coverage is higher (no one has 200k liability or $500 deductible). I'm not sure why that's so hard for you to understand.

Do you not get people don't pay an average rate, their is no such thing, walk into a brokerage and ask for the average rate, see what you get.

Your basic cover is 200k 500 ded all perils with a $50,000 payout limit. You didn't seem to understand that.

I compared my coverage to the same coverage with MPI, MPI was higher. You don't seem to understand that you can't comprehend the real numbers.

[Smallc]

Do you not get that an average is all the rates that people pay put together and then divided by the number of rates? We can't compare individual rates. The only thing that can really be compared is either an average or a typical rate. With something like insurance, there isn't a typical rate, and so an average is used. When one area has a lower average, that area, on the whole, has lower rates. What you or I pay is irrelevant.

[Bonam]

My brother has to pay similar rates, after he totaled 3 different cars and lost his license more times than he should have been allowed to.

See, in that situation, paying those rates would make sense. In my case, I had never been involved in any accident, never had any infraction, never made any insurance claim.

They generally don't actually, but BC hs the most expensive of the publicy insured rates. The coverage is also probably not 1:1.

That's right, the coverage isn't 1:1; I am not forced to pay for as much coverage that I don't want or need. And yeah I wouldn't doubt that BC is the most expensive. Everything in BC, Vancouver especially, is expensive as hell. The highest gas prices of any major city in the country, most expensive real estate market, more expensive insurance. Gotta love it.

Why laugh? You pay less and get less.

So?

Your lease payments were under $200 and you put a lot of money down. Great!

Relevance?

Relevance? Paying more to insure something than for the thing itself is stupid, that's where the relevance is. Would you buy a house for $500,000 and then pay $1 million to insure it? No, because for that price you could instead just buy another house and then some. Yes yes I understand insurance can also pay for medical and other costs which can be much more, but seriously, more for the insurance than the (new) car? That doesn't sound wrong to you?

[Alta4ever]

Do you not get that an average is all the rates that people pay put together and then divided by the number of rates? We can't compare individual rates. The only thing that can really be compared is either an average or a typical rate. With something like insurance, there isn't a typical rate, and so an average is used. When one area has a lower average, that area, on the whole, has lower rates. What you or I pay is irrelevant.

You don't want to compare individual rates because you will loose, as you did. When people go shopping for auto insurance they don't care what the average cost of a brokers book of policies is. They shop for an individual rate a go for the lowest. You also can not compare average rates between Toronto and Winnipeg, because the risk factors are different. You have to compare similar regions with similar conditions. If you want to compare toronto's private market you compare it with rates from the city of Vancouver. Face it you don't understand how insurance works you don't get it because you don't know it. Taking a list of policies and averaging them does not give you a true sense of what the cost of insurance is, just some bastardized number. To an individual shopping they don't look for the average rate they look for the best rate.

[Smallc]

You don't want to compare individual rates because you will loose, as you did. When people go shopping for auto insurance they don't care what the average cost of a brokers book of policies is. They shop for an individual rate a go for the lowest. You also can not compare average rates between Toronto and Winnipeg, because the risk factors are different.

You really don't get this. Individual rates are completely irrelevant, because they aren't necessarily typical or informational...and I'd bet that given the theft rate in Winnipeg (highest in Canada) and the average accident rate...and hail, that the risks are actually higher in Winnipeg.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Smallc

[Alta4ever]

You really don't get this. Individual rates are completely irrelevant, because they aren't necessarily typical or informational...and I'd bet that given the theft rate in Winnipeg (highest in Canada) and the average accident rate...and hail, that the risks are actually higher in Winnipeg.

You'd bet? Do you have some statistical info on that?

Are you or ever have been a broker? Have you ever actually asked for and read your policy wordings? Do you understand policies, do you know how the rating of policies works, do you understand, that different demographics produce different rates? Do you understand that insurance policy rates are more complex then just being able to take a dozen or so lump them together and spout an average price. Do you understand that it gets even more difficult when you start looking at private insurance because different companies (and there are so many) target different market segments, and discourage the writing of certain market segments with their book by having a higher rate then a competitor that is targeting that specific market segment. Unlike MPI they have no mandate to write all insurance policies and target their business acquisition models to the class of business they want. Hence mainline market middle market and residual markets. (If you even know what those are) The think tanks that you link to don't understand this, none really do, and how the insurance market operates outside of MB is completely over your head.

[guyser]

Relevance? Paying more to insure something than for the thing itself is stupid, that's where the relevance is.

Ah, so you wanted to insure a car worth about $2400 and the insurance was more than that. Not surprising, happens all the time. Drop coll/comp then.

Would you buy a house for $500,000 and then pay $1 million to insure it? No, because for that price you could instead just buy another house and then some.

That doesnt make sense for numerous reasons.

Yes yes I understand insurance can also pay for medical and other costs which can be much more, but seriously, more for the insurance than the (new) car? That doesn't sound wrong to you?

NO not at all. Im paying for far more than to insure the car. Im paying so I dont go bankrupt in the event of a negligent accident.IN fact the car is the most static of the insurance. Im paying so someone in my family or me is covered in the event of a catastrophy, be it re-doing my house due to permanent injury, providing attendant care, someone to come in and clean and cook, all sorts of things I pay for that are not car related other than occuring in on or about the vehicle.

You perhaps have $50,000 liability , I have $1M.

You have minimal acc benefits, I have tons.(which is were the industry gets killed)

No true comparison.

Edited August 27, 2010 by guyser

[Bonam]

Ah, so you wanted to insure a car worth about $2400 and the insurance was more than that. Not surprising, happens all the time. Drop coll/comp then.

It was a new car worth $18k.

NO not at all.

Ok, glad to know you enjoy paying through your ass in insurance. I've got a bridge to sell you... it's a good value, I promise.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Bonam

[guyser]

It was a new car worth $18k.

So...you paid more for insurance than a four year lease ? Your rating for insurance was bad then.

Ok, glad to know you enjoy paying through your ass in insurance. I've got a bridge to sell you... it's a good value, I promise.

You fail to grasp a host of things here. Your smug assertations notwithstanding

[Alta4ever]

It was a new car worth $18k.

Ok, glad to know you enjoy paying through your ass in insurance. I've got a bridge to sell you... it's a good value, I promise.

Bonam you aren't just paying to cover damage to the car, you are paying so that if you or someone elese is injured that you don't end up living you life in absolute squaller. Have you ever though about what you earning potential is for the rest of your life? What if all that is taken away tomorrow because some one t-boned you at an intersection? You aren't just buying insurance to cover your car, its to cover you and your mistakes.

[Smallc]

You'd bet? Do you have some statistical info on that?

What you fail to grasp (and what was shown in the FCPP study) was that people are paying less on average. That means that overall, people are paying less. You don't like that, and so you keep going on and on about insurance policies.

[Alta4ever]

What you fail to grasp (and what was shown in the FCPP study) was that people are paying less on average. That means that overall, people are paying less. You don't like that, and so you keep going on and on about insurance policies.

That study was and is crap. They weren't even taking real numbers. They used quote software, with made up scenarios, not real ones. They did not account for demographic differences. How many different insurance companies did they use for their quotes how did they choose which quote to use. Reading the study I can tell you what they did they took all the quotes generated for a specific scenario and the averaged them. Thus coming up with rates no one actually pays. This isn't MB we don't have one main provider with a couple of companies offering additional coverage. We have many companies offering many different prices for the same person. That consumer naturally finds the lowest price not the average. Why do you find this so hard to understand. YOUR DATA IS FLAWED IT IS NOT AN ACCURATE REPRESENTATION OF THE INDUSTRY!

[Smallc]

Or so you say. The reality is, it's the only real data we have, and it doesn't speak in your favour.

[Alta4ever]

Or so you say. The reality is, it's the only real data we have, and it doesn't speak in your favour.

I provided data, and your report does not corroborate it.

[Alta4ever]

Why is it that for me to get close the MPI average in your study you have to quote a 1980's to mid 90's vehicle to get ($652 for a 1980 chevette) year. Where did they get there data what age of vehicle were they using? Heck a 2000 Cavalier was still 1100 with the maximum 25% discount?

Same coverage same vehicle 2000 cavalier same driving record same deductibles same Liability coverage Kanetix quote

PREMIUM NEXT STEP

$675 / year

Millenium

Person no convictions no accidents, continuous insurance coverage over 10 years.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Alta4ever

[Alta4ever]

A 1995 Cavalier

Estimated Cost MPI

No Commute to winnipeg

2010 Rates

Effective: Mar 01, 2010

2009 Rates

Effective: Mar 01, 2009

Basic Insurance Premium

$790

Deductible $500

$0

Third Party Liability 1,000,000

$16

Interest and Administration Fee

$0

Total Insurance Cost

$806

Registration Charge

$119

Plate Use Charge

$7

**Total Registration Cost

$126

TOTAL ESTIMATE

$932

Kanetix site Alberta Rates equivalent coverage to what was quoted through MPI

Vehicle 1: 1995, CHEVROLET/GEO CAVALIER LS 4DR

Comprehensive coverage 500 ded

Collision coverage 500 ded

Liability 1,000,000

Uninsured motorist Included

No.44 - Family protection Included

$526

Edited August 27, 2010 by Alta4ever

[Alta4ever]

As I said small c MPI copied the Alberta grid rate system here check it out.

http://www.mpi.mb.ca/DSR/index.html

[Smallc]

We always have had that system. They simply added more steps in the ladder. I know, this is part of your usual 'sanity of Alberta' in the middle of a really insane country argument, but I don't buy it. On avreage, Manitobans pay less for more. You can compare single models all day. That's irrelivant, and I'm done discussing this with you. You can keep your system, we'll keep our's.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Smallc