Tories widening criminal code

[Topaz]

Well, the Tory party sure has been busy this summer and I'm thinking there's gotta be an election coming up, maybe around Oct. 9th? Anyway, the Tories now are widing the laws to include illegal gambling, specific prostitution and drug-related charges. Under illegal gambling it includes cheating while playing a game OR in holding the stakes for a game OR in betting, also included is betting, pool selling OR betting house. No wonder they want to build new prisons cause they aim to put hundreds into them especially orgainized crime and gangs. This could be a good thing, but, it could be a bad thing for the minister of the pm if theses gangs decided to come after them. So,does mean anyone play a game like poker at home, if caught cheating you could be arrested? http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/100804/national/crime_tories

[msdogfood]

Well, the Tory party sure has been busy this summer and I'm thinking there's gotta be an election coming up, maybe around Oct. 9th? Anyway, the Tories now are widing the laws to include illegal gambling, specific prostitution and drug-related charges. Under illegal gambling it includes cheating while playing a game OR in holding the stakes for a game OR in betting, also included is betting, pool selling OR betting house. No wonder they want to build new prisons cause they aim to put hundreds into them especially orgainized crime and gangs. This could be a good thing, but, it could be a bad thing for the minister of the pm if theses gangs decided to come after them. So,does mean anyone play a game like poker at home, if caught cheating you could be arrested? http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/100804/national/crime_tories

ferst

why do you think there will be election in Oct what dont i know that i need to know??

2. widening criminal code there may be a very good thing about this your posibelaty of a better defense in court because more offence's are indictable bigger burden of prof for the crone NO???.

[Hydraboss]

So,does mean anyone play a game like poker at home, if caught cheating you could be arrested? http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/100804/national/crime_tories

In all likelihood, yes. They will come and arrest you. That is why they are drafting this...to arrest YOU for cheating at Monopoly. Poker is a possibility as well, but they are truly trying to stem the rising tide of Monopoly cheating. After the recession and the financial institution meltdown in the States, I think they're attempting to prevent the training of future corrupt bank CEO's by stopping the obvious deceit, deception, duplicity, chicanery, double-dealing, fiddling, misappropriation, fraud, embezzlement and downright not-goodedness that is so common in the home-game black market.

Good thing.

[ToadBrother]

Well, the Tory party sure has been busy this summer and I'm thinking there's gotta be an election coming up, maybe around Oct. 9th? Anyway, the Tories now are widing the laws to include illegal gambling, specific prostitution and drug-related charges. Under illegal gambling it includes cheating while playing a game OR in holding the stakes for a game OR in betting, also included is betting, pool selling OR betting house. No wonder they want to build new prisons cause they aim to put hundreds into them especially orgainized crime and gangs. This could be a good thing, but, it could be a bad thing for the minister of the pm if theses gangs decided to come after them. So,does mean anyone play a game like poker at home, if caught cheating you could be arrested? http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/100804/national/crime_tories

In most (I think probably all) jurisdictions in Canada, playing a game of poker in your home for money is illegal already.

[dre]

In most (I think probably all) jurisdictions in Canada, playing a game of poker in your home for money is illegal already.

Yup thats because of the over-criminalization that plagues our legal system.

If you look at statistics on things like how many people have smoked pot before, or played a low stakes card game in the privacy of their own home, youd see that the government considers the MAJORITY of Canadian citizens to be criminals.

[ToadBrother]

Yup thats because of the over-criminalization that plagues our legal system.

If you look at statistics on things like how many people have smoked pot before, or played a low stakes card game in the privacy of their own home, youd see that the government considers the MAJORITY of Canadian citizens to be criminals.

Well, whatever the original justification for bans on gambling (mainly Victorian-era anti-vice sentiments), the reason for gambling bans now is that governments want to maintain the monopoly on it. Legalize gambling and you diminish government returns.

The really pathetic part in my neck of the woods is the local casinos are nothing more than row upon row of slot machines, perhaps the most idiotic form of gambling there is. Even bingo and keno require more sense. Where's roulette? I mean, I want to show up in a dinner coat and say in my most inept pseudo-Scottish accent "Shaken but not stirred."

[Remiel]

I am adverse to gambling, even with friends. But even if I did, I would avoid slot machines like the plague. There is no skill or judgement involved at all. Whether you win has nothing to do with you.

Blackjack and poker are the only casino games that interest me at all.

[bloodyminded]

Well, whatever the original justification for bans on gambling (mainly Victorian-era anti-vice sentiments), the reason for gambling bans now is that governments want to maintain the monopoly on it. Legalize gambling and you diminish government returns.

The really pathetic part in my neck of the woods is the local casinos are nothing more than row upon row of slot machines, perhaps the most idiotic form of gambling there is. Even bingo and keno require more sense. Where's roulette? I mean, I want to show up in a dinner coat and say in my most inept pseudo-Scottish accent "Shaken but not stirred."

Exactly. If I'm going to gamble, I want to do it Hollywood myth style. Otherwise, why add another vice to my already impressive roster?

[Remiel]

One other thing... Are all of these things going to be made serious offenses carte blanche, or only when related to organized crime? Seems silly to charge a lone prostitute with a " serious offense " if once in a while she turns a trick in her own home.

[DrGreenthumb]

In most (I think probably all) jurisdictions in Canada, playing a game of poker in your home for money is illegal already.

It IS already illegal, what the Conservative government wants to do is add these things to the list of "serious criminal offence" or by legal definition, crimes that require at least a 5 year prison term. If you have an office hocky pool, congratulations, according to the Conservative party you are now a "serious" criminal. How stupid can these Conjobs get? When will the people of this country wake up?

[msdogfood]

ferst

why do you think there will be election in Oct what dont i know that i need to know??

2. widening criminal code there may be a very good thing about this your posibelaty of a better defense in court because more offence's are indictable bigger burden of prof for the crone NO???.

will someone answer this for me thanks!!.

[Alta4ever]

will someone answer this for me thanks!!.

Are you capable of coming up with any answers on your own?

[msdogfood]

first

why do you think there will be election in Oct what dont i know that i need to know??

2. widening criminal code there may be a very good thing about this your posibelaty of a better defense in court because more offence's are indictable bigger burden of prof for the crone NO???.

anyone agree with my assessment???.

[Argus]

will someone answer this for me thanks!!.

I doubt anyone understood the question. Try asking again in English.

[Argus]

Yup thats because of the over-criminalization that plagues our legal system.

If you look at statistics on things like how many people have smoked pot before,

I've been on this site for some years now and I have yet to see a topic on crime, even in this case, organized crime, where someone from the Left didn't somehow think that pot smoking laws were more important to talk about. You people are obsessed.

Edited August 7, 2010 by Argus

[Argus]

One other thing... Are all of these things going to be made serious offenses carte blanche, or only when related to organized crime?

The strengthening of the law in regard to these offenses is strictly in relation to their use by criminal enterprises. This is aimed at organized crime. Anyone worried about his Friday night poker game getting busted in by the cops is seriously paranoid.

[Mr.Canada]

Anyway, the Tories now are widing the laws to include illegal gambling, specific prostitution and drug-related charges. Under illegal gambling it includes cheating while playing a game OR in holding the stakes for a game OR in betting, also included is betting, pool selling OR betting house.

So you're arguing in favor of illegal gambling, prostitution, hard drugs and gangs. Ok we got it. Many Canadians aren't in favor of these things and applaud some harsher laws. The Liberal plan from the 70's of being lenient on crime especially vice hasn't worked. Time to try a new approach.

Topaz is in favor of vice ruining our urban centres. You wonder why many people leave the city centres to live in the burbs. It's because of attitudes like yours make it unsafe for most people.

[P. McGee]

Does anyone else find it concerning that this was added to the law as a regulation, rather than a bill that would require majority support? I would be interested if anyone has more information/analysis on past use of this technique by minority governments in Canada. Is there anything that can't be put into law by this method, assuming it's added to an existing bill?

Nobody seems to have posted the link to the regulation itself so here it is: http://canadagazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p2/2010/2010-08-04/html/sor-dors161-eng.html

As far as the actual content of the regulation, my feeling is that the parts about gambling etc may be mostly a distraction from the changes in drug law. The most significant with respect to the scale of potential enforcement may be section 2b, which I understand to mean that trafficking in any amount less than 3 kg of marijuana or hashish would now be a serious crime, assuming that three or more people were involved.

[g_bambino]

So you're arguing in favor of illegal gambling, prostitution, hard drugs and gangs.

Aren't you the one who says there should be no government in our respective lives?

[bjre]

They want more money, they want take more tax, they want some big business earn more. they want hard work people lost more, they don't care about Canada whether the work cost will become higher and less competitive, they don't care about human rights, they allow themselves cheating by tell lies in elections and other times, and they want send people to jail at working people's cost when others cheat. The education make people selfish, the government people were educated in such selfish environment, they are selfish, they talk about Canada is only for themselves, not for the majority of the Canadian people. That's it.

[Mr.Canada]

They want more money, they want take more tax, they want some big business earn more. they want hard work people lost more, they don't care about Canada whether the work cost will become higher and less competitive, they don't care about human rights, they allow themselves cheating by tell lies in elections and other times, and they want send people to jail at working people's cost when others cheat. The education make people selfish, the government people were educated in such selfish environment, they are selfish, they talk about Canada is only for themselves, not for the majority of the Canadian people. That's it.

Can you please post in clear English above a grade 3 level next time please. Lying during elections? You mean "Soldiers...with guns...in our streets...in Canada". You mean like that? Or how about the Red book promise of 1993 to get rid of the GST? Lies like these?

Thank you.

[Jack Weber]

Aren't you the one who says there should be no government in our respective lives?

No...He's the guy who advocates for a Fascist dictatorship...Franco seems to be the Fascist blueprint he would use...

[Molly]

Does anyone else find it concerning that this was added to the law as a regulation, rather than a bill that would require majority support? I would be interested if anyone has more information/analysis on past use of this technique by minority governments in Canada. Is there anything that can't be put into law by this method, assuming it's added to an existing bill?

Nobody seems to have posted the link to the regulation itself so here it is: http://canadagazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p2/2010/2010-08-04/html/sor-dors161-eng.html

As far as the actual content of the regulation, my feeling is that the parts about gambling etc may be mostly a distraction from the changes in drug law. The most significant with respect to the scale of potential enforcement may be section 2b, which I understand to mean that trafficking in any amount less than 3 kg of marijuana or hashish would now be a serious crime, assuming that three or more people were involved.

I do. (find it concerning),

Let's just post section 2 describing new 'serious offenses':

2. The following offences under the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act are serious offences that are included in the definition “serious offence” in subsection 467.1(1) of the Criminal Code:

(a) trafficking in any substance included in Schedule IV (paragraph 5(3)©);

( trafficking in any substance included in Schedule II in an amount that does not exceed the amount set out for that substance in Schedule VII (subsection 5(4));

© importing or exporting any substance included in Schedule IV or V (paragraph 6(3)©); and

(d) producing any substance included in Schedule IV (paragraph 7(2)(d)).

[Molly]

Further clarification: Schedule IV is steroids, and barbiturates-- mild hypnotics, muscle relaxants, sleeping pills...Valium, khat... Schedule V is a nasal decongenstant. Schedule II is marijuana and it's derivatives and schedule VII specifies 3 Kg.....

So the regulations new 'serious offenses' are: selling, importing, exporting or producing steroids, mild hypnotics and nasal decongestants;

and trafficking in (pot or hash) in an amount (less than 3 kg.)

Dr. Greenthumb? What say ye?

Edited August 9, 2010 by Molly

[P. McGee]

Argus alluded earlier to the idea that only those involved in a criminal enterprise ("criminal organization" in official terms) need to worry about the law, referencing the example of a friendly poker game. But how is a criminal organization defined?

The Criminal Code includes numerous provisions dealing specifically with organized crime. Section 467.1(1) of the Criminal Code defines “criminal organization” to mean a group, however organized, that

(a) is composed of three or more persons in or outside Canada; and

( has as one of its main purposes or main activities the facilitation or commission of one or more serious offences that, if committed, would likely result in the direct or indirect receipt of a material benefit, including a financial benefit, by the group or by any of the persons who constitute the group.

So persons A and B each throw in $10 and approach person C to buy a quantity of marijuana less than 3 kg with their combined money. The (temporary) association of all three people would appear to exist for the main purpose of completing this transaction, which offers a financial benefit for person C and material benefits for the other two. In the case of a poker game between at least three people, it would not be impossible to make a similar argument, although personally I don't believe enforcement is very likely in that case.