Census - Mandatory or Voluntary

[Smallc]

The CBC continues to say there is outrage over the Conservatives' "scrapping of the manadatory longform census". I mean honestly - with a statement like that, wouldn't you think that they were completely doing away with the long form? That's what many Candians think. Why wouldn't the issue be framed by the CBC as "changing the mandatory long form census from mandatory to voluntary". I know - it's a rhetorical question.....but most media are spouting the same nonsense.

Because that's exactly what they are doing. They're scrapping the mandatory long form census. They're replacing it with a pile of garbage.

[capricorn]

They're scrapping the mandatory long form census. They're replacing it with a pile of garbage.

Do you think a dire fate awaits this country as a result of implementing a modified process of collecting census data?

[Smallc]

Do you think a dire fate awaits this country as a result of implementing a modified process of collecting census data?

I doubt that, but it will make many things more difficult.

[capricorn]

I doubt that, but it will make many things more difficult.

If as you predict, the tools produced by StatsCan under this modified 2011 census process prove to be sub-standard for the purposes of developing and evaluating public policy, nothing stops reverting back to the previous process in time for the 2016 census. Let's not forget that in the interim, a change in government is a distinct possibility and a new government could very well scrap the changes to the mandatory long form made by the Conservatives. Like you, I don't think the country would be in peril because the gathering of national data is done differently from past years. That's why I'm not too concerned about the present change. I'm willing to the matter run its course and see where it leads us. Goodness knows we have enough experts around who are only too eager to provide enlightened guidance.

[Smallc]

If as you predict, the tools produced by StatsCan under this modified 2011 census process prove to be sub-standard for the purposes of developing and evaluating public policy, nothing stops reverting back to the previous process in time for the 2016 census.

Then we've lost an important data point for any future census. It isn't that simple.

[Bonam]

Then we've lost an important data point for any future census. It isn't that simple.

Oh noes! One data point! Whatever shall we do?

Climate scientists have no problems filling in for a lot of missing data points ;p

[capricorn]

Then we've lost an important data point for any future census. It isn't that simple.

OK then. I see you have already made up your mind on the quality of the output. Fair enough Smallc.

[Smallc]

OK then. I see you have already made up your mind on the quality of the output. Fair enough Smallc.

I've only been listening to what is a virtual consensus in economic and planning community.

[capricorn]

Same thing.

[Oleg Bach]

Voluntary census are another way of creating more open boarders...seems that nationalism is being pushed aside by internatinalists who want to literally remove the wall of our houses..in other words - that we live in a huge socialist cabutz..Look at the failed state of Mexico..look at the foolishness that our leaders have created in regards to letting barbarians into our national home...this elite as isolated - these people who push for globalism will NOT have to live in it --- they will be privatized with private security and will be tossed in to rot with the dirty unwashed masses..................Of course we have the right to demand to know the identity of any citizen or non-citizen interloper..we are either a nation or we are not.

[nicky10013]

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/census/article/845380--paul-martin-accuses-tories-of-dumbing-down-canada?bn=1

[Keepitsimple]

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/census/article/845380--paul-martin-accuses-tories-of-dumbing-down-canada?bn=1

Yes, Martin is saying it's very, very important and no doubt was one of his 12,342 top priorities.......the poor schmuck still doesn't get it.

Votes are now 17-17.......so at least on this board, some people refuse to believe that Canada is going to the dogs over doing a voluntary census instead of a mandatory one.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Keepitsimple

[jdi]

Today on www.themarknews.com, The Mark is hosting liberal leader Michael Ignatieff in a live chat at 4:30pm EST. You can submit questions to the opposition leader as he travels cross Canada via The Mark's Facebook page, The Mark's website, or Twitter @themarknews. Submit your questions and comments ASAP!

[msdogfood]

Will Harper or the Conservative Party R.I.P. over census?

.

[Topaz]

IF the Feds want to get rid of the long form and there's over 200 group that need the info. on the long form than why doesn't the provinces take it upon themselves to do their own census? Maybe it time for the provinces to start doing what Quebec does and take more responsiblity and shut out the Feds, especially under this government.

[Keepitsimple]

Interesting remarks from Munir Sheikh that have come to light. It would be enlightening to know who the "many" are who would be satisfied and who the "others" are who would not.....but obviously - as per the Chief Statistician's own words - the voluntary census is not as useless as the media have portrayed.

"Many of you have asked whether I believe the National Household Survey will satisfy the needs of all users of the previous long form," says a draft text of Sheikh's planned speech to staff.

"My response is that the NHS will meet the needs of many users but will not provide useful data to meet the needs of other users of the mandatory long-form census data."

The remarks appear to have been emailed to the Privy Council Office and Industry Canada in the wee hours of the morning on July 21.

Link: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/100810/national/tories_census_scrubbed_1

[Smallc]

but obviously - as per the Chief Statistician's own words - the voluntary census is not as useless as the media have portrayed.

I'm not sure where you get that from. All it really says is that it's just what people say - something that will make the data less useful.

[capricorn]

Interesting remarks from Munir Sheikh that have come to light. It would be enlightening to know who the "many" are who would be satisfied and who the "others" are who would not.....but obviously - as per the Chief Statistician's own words - the voluntary census is not as useless as the media have portrayed.

Link: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/100810/national/tories_census_scrubbed_1

Interesting link. I noticed Duceppe suggested a compromise, which frankly made my skin crawl.

Bloc Quebecois Leader Gilles Duceppe called on Prime Minister Stephen Harper to reconsider the change, suggesting a compromise that involves replacing jail sentences for those who ignore the survey with lesser penalties.

He said the government could simply withhold services — such as a passport or Employment Insurance — from people who fail to complete the census form.

A lesser penalty than jail when no Canadian has ever been jailed? Egads! I'll check around to see the reaction to Duceppe's brainwave in the Quebec media.

Another thing. Didn't Sheikh say he'd keep a low profile on the census matter when he announced his resignation? Let's see. An opinion piece in the Globe a few days ago and a Power and Politics interview tonight. That's what I would call noisy silence. What's next?

[TimG]

They should make it a prize draw. Put $2 million into the pot. Give away prizes from $1000 to $1m to randomly selected participants who complete the long form. With 20% of Canadians getting the long form the chances of winning 1M are better than the 6/49.

The added bonus is the prize would attract the demographic that generally would not participate.

Edited August 11, 2010 by TimG

[Argus]

Because that's exactly what they are doing. They're scrapping the mandatory long form census. They're replacing it with a pile of garbage.

Smallc, I'm willing to bet .. MY LIFE.. that you don't have the slightest, faintest, foggiest notion of what difference any of that would make, and that you have no clue what value the present system is as compared to the new ones. You are THE most easily and eagerly herded sheep I've ever seen on this site.

[Argus]

I doubt that, but it will make many things more difficult.

But you have no idea what things, or how much more difficult, or why.

But that doesn't matter! Some people with "ed-uc-ation" seem to think it's important, for some reason or other. And that's good enough for you.

[Jack Weber]

Smallc...

You have been intellectualized and chastised by the Big Giant Head...

Again...Lucky you..

I'll bet you feel smarter from just reading it...

Edited August 11, 2010 by Jack Weber

[Smallc]

I do.

[msdogfood]

IF the Feds want to get rid of the long form and there's over 200 group that need the info. on the long form than why doesn't the provinces take it upon themselves to do their own census? Maybe it time for the provinces to start doing what Quebec does and take more responsibility and shut out the Feds, especially under this government.

are they not legally prevented from doing that

I dont know i am asking??.