Chistian Nationalists in the House of Commons

[Bortron]

I am currently reading a book called "The Armageddon Factor" (2010) by Marci McDonald. The book deals with the rise of Christian Nationalism in Canada. I'm curious to see what people have to say about this issue so please post your thoughts.

[Machjo]

I am currently reading a book called "The Armageddon Factor" (2010) by Marci McDonald. The book deals with the rise of Christian Nationalism in Canada. I'm curious to see what people have to say about this issue so please post your thoughts.

What do you mean by Christian Nationalism?

Do you mean they consider Canada to be Christian, and so want to build a fortress Canada to protect against the foreign heathen?

Or do you mean that they consider Christendom to be a nation and so support building closer ties with other Christian states, breaking down national boundaries with these states along the lines of an international federation, and imposing Christian laws on the local population.

Just these two examples alone (that Canada is a Christian nation, or that Christendom is a nation)show how widely interpreted your OP can be understood for those of us who have not read the book.

Or is it something totally different?

[bush_cheney2004]

Looks to be yet another American evangelists as bogeymen book:

http://www.amazon.com/Armageddon-Factor-Christian-Nationalism-ebook/dp/B003JMFKYC/ref=sr_1_1/180-3363253-7267321?ie=UTF8&m=AG56TWVU5XWC2&s=books&qid=1278264062&sr=1-1

The author used an anti-American hook in previous work: Yankee Doodle Dandy: Brian Mulroney and the America Agenda

[Bortron]

What do you mean by Christian Nationalism?

Do you mean they consider Canada to be Christian, and so want to build a fortress Canada to protect against the foreign heathen?

Or do you mean that they consider Christendom to be a nation and so support building closer ties with other Christian states, breaking down national boundaries with these states along the lines of an international federation, and imposing Christian laws on the local population.

Just these two examples alone (that Canada is a Christian nation, or that Christendom is a nation)show how widely interpreted your OP can be understood for those of us who have not read the book.

Or is it something totally different?

A Christian Nationalist is a term used to describe people who are Christian and wish to see the Nation which they belong too ruled through a literal interpretation of the bible with the intent of preparing for the second coming of Christ. That's my understanding of term anyways. An example of one of these people, according to McDonald, would be Stockwell Day.

[Bortron]

Looks to be yet another American evangelists as bogeymen book:

http://www.amazon.com/Armageddon-Factor-Christian-Nationalism-ebook/dp/B003JMFKYC/ref=sr_1_1/180-3363253-7267321?ie=UTF8&m=AG56TWVU5XWC2&s=books&qid=1278264062&sr=1-1

The author used an anti-American hook in previous work: Yankee Doodle Dandy: Brian Mulroney and the America Agenda

Yes, she seems to be anti-American but she makes some good points. Do you believe in the separation of church and state?

[Bonam]

Chistian Nationalists in the House of Commons...

Canada is a nation that offers freedom of religion and does not prevent people from being elected to the house of commons based on their religious beliefs. "Christian Nationalists", if they can get elected, have every right to sit in the house of commons.

[Bortron]

Canada is a nation that offers freedom of religion and does not prevent people from being elected to the house of commons based on their religious beliefs. "Christian Nationalists", if they can get elected, have every right to sit in the house of commons.

Being an Atheist do you not find it worrisome that these people are in important positions of power? After all they are not so tolerant of Atheists as you seem to be of them.

[Bonam]

Being an Atheist do you not find it worrisome that these people are in important positions of power? After all they are not so tolerant of Atheists as you seem to be of them.

Yes, I do find it unpleasant that religious fundamentalism appears to be on the rise in America and possibly to some slight extent in Canada as well. At the same time, however, fewer and fewer people believe in god, demographics in the Western world are rapidly shifting towards agnosticism, atheism, and other forms of non-association with institutionalized religion. Despite some Christian religious groups beginning to stand for more ridiculous positions than they previously had in recent times, Christianity remains an ever-waning force in the Western world, as it has been for centuries now.

What should concern you a bit more is the importation of large numbers of fundamentalist Muslims into the West, and their rise into, as you put it, "positions of power". Unlike the waning Christianity, Islam is on the rise, and a non-negligible portion of its followers believe in using violence to achieve what they deem to be its ends.

In either case, however, so long as Canada remains a land of religious freedom, these people cannot be barred from holding office simply on their religious beliefs.

[bush_cheney2004]

Yes, she seems to be anti-American but she makes some good points. Do you believe in the separation of church and state?

Do you "believe in" Section 29 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms?

Section Twenty-nine of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms is the section of Charter that most specifically addresses rights regarding denominational schools and separate schools.

Section 29 is not the source of these rights but instead reaffirms the pre-existing special rights belonging to Roman Catholics and Protestants, despite freedom of religion and religious equality under sections 2 and 15 of the Charter.

Such rights may include financial support from the provincial governments. In the case Mahe v. Alberta (1990), the Supreme Court of Canada also had to reconcile denominational school rights with minority language educational rights under section 23 of the Charter.

Edited July 4, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[bush_cheney2004]

Canada is a nation that offers freedom of religion and does not prevent people from being elected to the house of commons based on their religious beliefs. "Christian Nationalists", if they can get elected, have every right to sit in the house of commons.

Agreed...human belief systems come in all shapes and sizes...having an organization label (or not) will not encourage or prevent a defined agenda on the part of elected or appointed individuals in government.

[August1991]

I am currently reading a book called "The Armageddon Factor" (2010) by Marci McDonald. The book deals with the rise of Christian Nationalism in Canada. I'm curious to see what people have to say about this issue so please post your thoughts.

IMV, Marci McDonald is an old hippie who just never grew out of her "San Francisco flowers in my hair" phase. I reckon that the Toronto Star keeps her on staff because, let's be honest, aging hippie women in Toronto are a fair chunk of their readership. Who, below the age of 30, reads a newspaper except a free handout at the metro?

I digress.

As to her book, here's a delightful review:

It's surprising that Random House agreed to publish such a screed, but it's a free country, and McDonald is entitled to her own opinions, no matter how bigoted.

But she's not entitled to her own facts.

I am directly familiar with only a few of the subjects in McDonald's book, yet I was able to spot dozens of errors immediately. I'm sure there are many more; I've spoken with a number of people McDonald wrote about extensively, who tell me that McDonald didn't bother to actually interview them, and neither did any fact-checker from Random House.

Some of McDonald's errors are just plain weird....

Ezra Levant Edited July 4, 2010 by August1991

[Bortron]

Do you "believe in" Section 29 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms?

Section Twenty-nine of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms is the section of Charter that most specifically addresses rights regarding denominational schools and separate schools.

Section 29 is not the source of these rights but instead reaffirms the pre-existing special rights belonging to Roman Catholics and Protestants, despite freedom of religion and religious equality under sections 2 and 15 of the Charter.

Such rights may include financial support from the provincial governments. In the case Mahe v. Alberta (1990), the Supreme Court of Canada also had to reconcile denominational school rights with minority language educational rights under section 23 of the Charter.

Please answer my question. I'm familiar with Charter and it is not perfect or infallible but that isn't what this thread is about. If you would like to discuss the charter start another topic or explain to me how it is relevant to my question. So once again, do you personally believe in separation of the church and state? And please do not put words in my mouth, it seems to be the thing to do on forums, I never stated my opinion on the matter yet so reserve your criticism until I do.

[bush_cheney2004]

Please answer my question.

I did answer your question...you just didn't like the answer. I "believe" that various concessions have been made to religion in many modern forms of government. Then I provided a delighful example. Pretty thorough answer.

I'm familiar with Charter and it is not perfect or infallible but that isn't what this thread is about. If you would like to discuss the charter start another topic or explain to me how it is relevant to my question.

Are you joking? Do you think such religious provisions cast in Canadian constitution stone are not in any way relevant to screeds about "Christian Nationalists". You do realize that Catholics and Protestants are Christian, right?

So once again, do you personally believe in separation of the church and state? And please do not put words in my mouth, it seems to be the thing to do on forums, I never stated my opinion on the matter yet so reserve your criticism until I do.

LOL! It would seem that no such "separation" truly exists in Canada, so how can I "believe" in it for Canada? The USA has a far more credible scheme of separation, but even that has issues in practice. As for your opinion, we all wait with baited breath!

When do you ask me if I am Cristian or Jewish? Notice I did not demand that you answer my question...play only if you want to.

Edited July 4, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[Bortron]

IMV, Marci McDonald is an old hippie who just never grew out of her "San Francisco flowers in my hair" phase. I reckon that the Toronto Star keeps her on staff because, let's be honest, aging hippie women in Toronto are a fair chunk of their readership. Who, below the age of 30, reads a newspaper except a free handout at the metro?

I digress.

As to her book, here's a delightful review:Ezra Levant

Ezra Levant would say that though wouldn't he lol. Keep in mind that the book is about people that share the same political views as Mr. Levant so their opinions suffer from a conflict of interest. I would suggest reading the book yourself rather then letting an extremely biased opinion color your thoughts on the matter. It's unfortunate people choose to ignore or disrespect things that don't support their chosen position. Also before you attack me, just because I'm reading the book doesn't mean I like it, so please don't put words in my mouth.

Edited July 4, 2010 by Bortron

[Bortron]

I did answer your question...you just didn't like the answer. I "believe" that various concessions have been made to religion in many modern forms of government. Then I provided a delighful example. Pretty thorough answer.

Are you joking? Do you think such religious provisions cast in Canadian constitution stone are not in any way relevant to screeds about "Christian Nationalists". You do realize that Catholics and Protestants are Christian, right?

LOL! It would seem that no such "separation" truly exists in Canada, so how can I "believe" in it for Canada? The USA has a far more credible scheme of separation, but even that has issues in practice. As for your opinion, we all wait with baited breath!

When do you ask me if I am Cristian or Jewish? Notice I did not demand that you answer my question...play only if you want to.

I told you I'm familiar with the charter. Do you believe in separation of church and state? Yes or No? I'm not asking you weather or not it exists or what the charter has to say about it, I'm asking if you, as an individual, believes in it. Why can't you simply answer the question? I'm not specifically asking about Canada either, its a general question.

Edited July 4, 2010 by Bortron

[bush_cheney2004]

I told you I'm familiar with the charter. Do you believe in separation of church and state? Yes or No? I'm not asking you weather or not it exists or what the charter has to say about it, I'm asking if you, as an individual, believes in it. Why can't you simply answer the question?

Well, it is a far more direct response in the former, as your question was not very precise. I "believe" in such separation in theory, but also recognize the limitations in practice, complete with the history of such notions in Canada or the United States. The topic has been beat to death in prior MLW threads.

Christian Nationalists in the HoC is a political question deserving of no more or less inspection than any other organized agenda. My only interest (as usual) is yet another example of an American "bogeyman" used to define and contrast political reality in Canada.

[Bortron]

Yes, I do find it unpleasant that religious fundamentalism appears to be on the rise in America and possibly to some slight extent in Canada as well. At the same time, however, fewer and fewer people believe in god, demographics in the Western world are rapidly shifting towards agnosticism, atheism, and other forms of non-association with institutionalized religion. Despite some Christian religious groups beginning to stand for more ridiculous positions than they previously had in recent times, Christianity remains an ever-waning force in the Western world, as it has been for centuries now.

What should concern you a bit more is the importation of large numbers of fundamentalist Muslims into the West, and their rise into, as you put it, "positions of power". Unlike the waning Christianity, Islam is on the rise, and a non-negligible portion of its followers believe in using violence to achieve what they deem to be its ends.

In either case, however, so long as Canada remains a land of religious freedom, these people cannot be barred from holding office simply on their religious beliefs.

Yes Bonam the Muslim Fundamentalists are troubling as well and of course you are correct they can't be barred from holding office. Lets just hope secularism continues to progress; beyond all but its most simple forms I find any organization of spiritual belief distasteful as I'm sure you do as well.

Edited July 4, 2010 by Bortron

[Bortron]

Well, it is a far more direct response in the former, as your question was not very precise. I "believe" in such separation in theory, but also recognize the limitations in practice, complete with the history of such notions in Canada or the United States. The topic has been beat to death in prior MLW threads.

Christian Nationalists in the HoC is a political question deserving of no more or less inspection than any other organized agenda. My only interest (as usual) is yet another example of an American "bogeyman" used to define and contrast political reality in Canada.

So you are pro-American?

[bush_cheney2004]

So you are pro-American?

Worse than that....I AM AMERICAN! God Bless America! LOL!

[Bortron]

Worse than that....I AM AMERICAN! God Bless America! LOL!

No it's not worse really, you probably didn't chose to be American unless your an immigrant. Can't blame someone for being born where they were born.

[bush_cheney2004]

No it's not worse really, you probably didn't chose to be American unless your an immigrant. Can't blame someone for being born where they were born.

Huh? Even Superman chose to be American... all the way from the planet Krypton....to fight for Truth, Justice, and the American way! Canada needs its own Superman.

[Michael Hardner]

Huh? Even Superman chose to be American... all the way from the planet Krypton....to fight for Truth, Justice, and the American way! Canada needs its own Superman.

Come to think of it, Superman was an illegal immigrant !

And... I just noticed the subject line is 'Chistian Nationalists'

[Bortron]

Huh? Even Superman chose to be American... all the way from the planet Krypton....to fight for Truth, Justice, and the American way! Canada needs its own Superman.

We got Don Cherry

[Bonam]

Lets just hope secularism continues to progress; beyond all but its most simple forms I find any organization of spiritual belief distasteful as I'm sure you do as well.

Not really, why should I find it distasteful? People can choose to believe whatever they like and can choose to associate and organize together with other people who share similar beliefs. So long as they don't infringe upon the rights and freedoms of others, there is nothing wrong with such activity.

Edited July 4, 2010 by Bonam

[Bortron]

Not really, why should I find it distasteful? People can choose to believe whatever they like and can choose to associate and organize together with other people who share similar beliefs. So long as they don't infringe upon the rights and freedoms of others, there is nothing wrong with such activity.

I guess I'm more anti-religion then you are. It seems to me like much of the religion of the world does attempt to infringe on the rights and freedoms of others and I believe all religions have the potential to do this when under the influence of the right kind of people. I am not an Atheist though.