"Fluent in English and Mandarin"

[mikedavid00]

I love occasionally coming back to the forum to see what's going on. You have a lot of the forum living in remote areas that have their own skewed vision of what the CBC wants them to think what Canada is really about. However, I live it each day.

I actually worked in an IT dept in the fall where the dept. was taken over by Russians and Chinese. I was the English speaking odd ball. I noticed that they would go out of their way to hire these people so they can speak their language to one another.

Hmm.. what about all the Canadian programmers that graduated from my course years ago during the tech boom that couldn't get a job. We have TONS of out of work IT Canadians who need jobs, yet my wife just 3 days ago was telling me how there was someone giving her dept. TRAINING with POOR broken English saying 'I landed in Canada in 2007'. Nice to see we are letting the 3rd world come here to peruse their dreams at the cost of ours.

I know this post, or this job posting doesn't speak to 99% of the people reading this, but for the 30% of Canadians that this is effecting daily, this below job posting is for you.. you guys know what's really happening in Canada:

http://www.workopolis.com/EN/job/11529480

Thanks!

(I know I know Harper.. you're still chasing the dream of some kind of Chinese vote. Harper can go to hell as far as I'm concerned. Just know that you and your immigration policy are causing hundreds of thousands of Canadians to lose their jobs, lose their homes and lose everything just so you can promote an immigration policy to ensure you stay in power. I hope you sleep well at night knowing what you are doing to us. The other lames on this forum, they don't work and don't live in the real Canada so 99% don't understand this post. Go back to the CBC and let them dictate to you what you should think).

[Michael Hardner]

Hey MikeDavid,

I went through this myself. The fact of the matter is what we do, and manufacturing too, has been globalized. Nobody will fix the world price for what you do, that isn't going to change anytime soon so you have to either accept this, or change.

It has nothing to do with Harper getting Chinese votes, but more to do with reducing costs for businesses.

I recommend you find a related area in which your communications skills are what gives you the edge. These can include: tech training, management, sales, business analysis and a lot of such areas.

[August1991]

The hiring request is from an "Unnamed Company". IOW, a private individual wants to hire a particular person.

Frankly, I prefer a woman when I hire someone for a pedicure and I would refuse the services of a man - even if he spoke Mandarin.

[mikedavid00]

Hahaha!!

I *LOVE* the responses! Do you see what I mean by 99%?

[August1991]

Hahaha!!

I *LOVE* the responses! Do you see what I mean by 99%?

Uh, I wouldn't hire you to flip hamburgers at minimum wage - even if you spoke French and Mandarin fluently?

MikeDavid, you're a jerk. Is that grounds to refuse you as a pedicurist?

Edited June 28, 2010 by August1991

[Michael Hardner]

Hahaha!!

I *LOVE* the responses! Do you see what I mean by 99%?

Your response to my advice appears to be quite insane.

It's time to adapt and evolve. Or sit and rust.

[mikedavid00]

It's time to adapt and evolve.

I agree.

The gov't needs to adapt to the fact that Canadians don't have jobs, there are no jobs for us, and it doesn't help to let the 3rd world come in and take the few jobs that there are. Working with these people are an utter train wreck but that's another topic all together.

The gov't needs to adapt quickly and take on immigration policies that most every other country in the world has.

But this kind of talk is over most peoples head here. It's a working persons 'thing' I guess that most here don't understand.

Us in the private sector who work full time (you know.. those people who are not on this forum) will be left to fend for ourselves I guess.

Let nanny CBC and Canada keep looking after you guys in the 'bubble world' fed to you by the CBC and academia. I'm in the real world and don't live in bubbles.

I love the responses. They are amusing to myself, wife, and friends. (working people in the private sector). I actually read them aloud and we laugh.

You have no idea how you guys sound. You guys are such... man.. you guys are so brainwashed and sheep. You're told what to think and question nothing. If the CBC and Gov't want you to stand in line, you do it. You stand tall and proud like nanny wants you to and don't ask questions back to nanny.

You should really look at yourselves.

[wyly]

if I had a really tiny fiddle I'd play sad music for poor mikedavid....

these people he complains about have the drive to learn a second language and succeed in a new country....

I knew a young blonde attractive canadian uni student many years ago, her solution to globalization and employment she became fluent in Mandarin and Cantonese...

my niece's solution to becoming successful excutive in a global corporate giant, become fluent in French in her late 30's...

my brother-in-laws solution to being successful, learning Mandarin at age 46...

the key to success in the future requires people to know bilingual at a minimum, meet the challenge and quit whining because immigrants have more ambition than you....

[msj]

Yeah, I hear the smallest violin in the world being played, too.

Hey, you can always go to work in China:

If you’re white, you’re hired.

Companies in China are recruiting foreigners to join their staff, regardless of their experience, sometimes for as little as a day or a week at a time. The only qualification is that they’re Caucasian.

Link

[Michael Hardner]

if I had a really tiny fiddle I'd play sad music for poor mikedavid....

Actually, MD deserves some sympathy as a casualty of global economics - and the fact is that because of losses by people like MD, myself and anyone who works in manufacturing Canadians pay lower prices for things than they would otherwise.

All of you who sit comfortably in protected industries (hello media, hello closed guild professionals such as doctors and lawyers, and hello media) shouldn't be too smug.

[wyly]

Actually, MD deserves some sympathy as a casualty of global economics - and the fact is that because of losses by people like MD, myself and anyone who works in manufacturing Canadians pay lower prices for things than they would otherwise.

All of you who sit comfortably in protected industries (hello media, hello closed guild professionals such as doctors and lawyers, and hello media) shouldn't be too smug.

I'm not in a protected industry, my financial losses are significant...blaming immigrants for his shortcomings is really pathetic...and who stopped MD from becoming one of those closed guild professionals or any recession proof occupation?...we all make our own decisions in life no need to whine and blame others when it doesn't work out...

[Peter F]

...

I actually worked in an IT dept in the fall where the dept. was taken over by Russians and Chinese. I was the English speaking odd ball. I noticed that they would go out of their way to hire these people so they can speak their language to one another.

Hmm.. what about all the Canadian programmers that graduated from my course years ago during the tech boom that couldn't get a job. We have TONS of out of work IT Canadians who need jobs, yet my wife just 3 days ago was telling me how there was someone giving her dept. TRAINING with POOR broken English saying 'I landed in Canada in 2007'. Nice to see we are letting the 3rd world come here to peruse their dreams at the cost of ours.

I know this post, or this job posting doesn't speak to 99% of the people reading this, but for the 30% of Canadians that this is effecting daily, this below job posting is for you.. you guys know what's really happening in Canada:

http://www.workopolis.com/EN/job/11529480

Thanks!

(I know I know Harper.. you're still chasing the dream of some kind of Chinese vote. Harper can go to hell as far as I'm concerned. Just know that you and your immigration policy are causing hundreds of thousands of Canadians to lose their jobs, lose their homes and lose everything just so you can promote an immigration policy to ensure you stay in power. ...)

Huh? The boss seeks employees who are fluent in English and Mandarin so's the future employee can speak with the other employees? And thats the fault of the immigration system? Ignoring the rediculous assertion of why the employer seeks employees who speak Mandarin and English, Could it possibly be the fault of the employer to seek such bilingual people and not the fault of immigration policy?

[August1991]

You have no idea how you guys sound. You guys are such... man.. you guys are so brainwashed and sheep. You're told what to think and question nothing. If the CBC and Gov't want you to stand in line, you do it. You stand tall and proud like nanny wants you to and don't ask questions back to nanny.

You should really look at yourselves.

So, if I understand your logic MD, you want the Canadian government to stop all immigration on the grounds that this would reduce the supply of labour and would raise wages, or reduce unemployment. (Assuming that this were even possible... )

In effect, you want to give "monopoly-power" to employees currently in Canada - and so your idea is similar to having closed union shops. The problem, of course, is that you're only looking at one side of any transaction. For Canadians who buy anything, your proposal would make things more expensive.

And looking at bit more deeply at the problem, you in effect are proposing that Canada become North Korea. Your proposal amounts to stagnation. When you propose that we exclude workers who may offer better services at a lower wage, you in effect want to stop change.

MD, you remind me of the bank teller in 1978 who objected to the installation of an ATM on the grounds that a computer can provide the service of a teller, at a much lower cost. Imagine how Canada would be different in 2010 if the government had followed the opinion of that bank teller.

Edited June 30, 2010 by August1991

[Michael Hardner]

I'm not in a protected industry, my financial losses are significant...blaming immigrants for his shortcomings is really pathetic...and who stopped MD from becoming one of those closed guild professionals or any recession proof occupation?...we all make our own decisions in life no need to whine and blame others when it doesn't work out...

I agree that blaming immigrants isn't a positive approach, however some significant problems can arise if you blame people for their misfortunes at the hand of big global economic forces. The government should provide for retraining - and it does.

[Shwa]

Ottawa caps number of skilled immigrants - No more than 20,000 applications to reduce backlog

Immigration applicants must also submit proof of proficiency in one of Canada’s two official languages through a mandatory test, according to new instructions released Friday by Immigration Minister Jason Kenney. Until now, some applicants were allowed to submit a written declaration testifying to their language ability. For example, exemptions could be granted to those who were educated in English or French.

So being fluent in Mandarin is not the issue.

As part of the changes, the number of occupations eligible for the federal skilled worker program has also been reduced from 38 to 29.

Due to an oversupply in the job market, 20 of the original 38 job categories have been removed, including managers in finances, computer and information systems, health care and construction, as well as university professors and college and vocational instructors

.

So MD is off the hook (sort of) since IT has been taken off the table. Although health professionals are on the list:

They are being replaced with 11 new occupations: social workers, psychologists, dental hygienists and therapists, pharmacists, dentists, architects, biologists and related scientists, insurance adjusters and claims examiners, primary industry production managers (except those in agriculture) and professions in business services and management.

Now, let's suppose that we have, I dunno, say 100 Chinese IT guys come over here to work in the private sector. They have passed their English literacy test, but lack the entire range of easy conversational English that most of us grew up with. So now, who do we send them to for competent psychological examination? Would Dr. Smith be a better choice than say, Dr. Chu? And if Dr. Chu is seen as the better fit, do we ask Dr. Chu and his patient to converse in a constrained English, or do we allow Dr. Chu to speak Mandarin to better understand his patient?

If I owned a mental health clinic at Dundas and Spadina in Toronto, I think I would advertise for an employee who was also fluent in Mandarin. I don't necessarily care if the guy has ancestry from China, England, India or Arizona, just that he be fluent in Mandarin.

[Michael Hardner]

I agree that blaming immigrants isn't a positive approach, however some significant problems can arise if you blame people for their misfortunes at the hand of big global economic forces.

This happened also during the industrial revolution, when people left their farms and flooded the cities. Or with the 'Oakies' in the great depression.

The former example - the industrial revolution - was a leap forward in efficiency, with the economic benefits not being redistributed to society as a whole. If you read Karl Marx, it's pretty clear that he's talking about this period in history.

[Shwa]

I agree that blaming immigrants isn't a positive approach, however some significant problems can arise if you blame people for their misfortunes at the hand of big global economic forces. The government should provide for retraining - and it does.

Blaming immigrants isn't any type of approach at all. If it is, we might as well have thrown the Slavs and Irish some cabbages and potatoes because, you know, they will never amount to much. Oh wait, we already did that - now look what we've got. Let's not forget that widespread famine is also a form of Big Global Economic Force and it worked out for us by being generous.

Funny how we are so willing to attract the billions in Hong Kong investments, but gawd, don't you dare let any of their employees speak Cantonese to one another.

[Michael Hardner]

Let's not forget that widespread famine is also a form of Big Global Economic Force and it worked out for us by being generous.

Absolutely true. It wasn't so long ago that the type of contempt served up to contemporary immigrants was used on our leprechaun friends.

[wyly]

Absolutely true. It wasn't so long ago that the type of contempt served up to contemporary immigrants was used on our leprechaun friends.

yup, stir the pot wait a generation and they're just as canadian as the rest of us...

[Michael Hardner]

yup, stir the pot wait a generation and they're just as canadian as the rest of us...

And - oddly - I'm already seeing this with Indo-Canadians, who arrived here already as British as we were - in a sense - as co-commonwealth and loyal subjects.

The last ones to arrive, at this rate, will be the Indonesians.

[wyly]

And - oddly - I'm already seeing this with Indo-Canadians, who arrived here already as British as we were - in a sense - as co-commonwealth and loyal subjects.

I see it everytime my kids have a birthday party my house looks like a United Nations meeting....

[Michael Hardner]

I see it everytime my kids have a birthday party my house looks like a United Nations meeting....

We're running out of outsiders to demonize.

Once we make friends with the conservatives, that will be it... nothing more to fight about...

Sorry but my peacenik side is showing again...

[August1991]

If I owned a mental health clinic at Dundas and Spadina in Toronto, I think I would advertise for an employee who was also fluent in Mandarin. I don't necessarily care if the guy has ancestry from China, England, India or Arizona, just that he be fluent in Mandarin.

And since we're in the world of hypotheticals, what if I owned a mental health clinic across the street - and I bought a sophisticated, low-cost Chinese computer system to offer the same service?

That is, the issue is not fluency in Mandarin - the issue is the cost of the service.

All Canadians can agree, I think, that we are all better off because we have ATMs and cell phones. Would our opinion change if we learned that cell phones and ATMs were not based on new technology - but rather based on "cheap labour" in India or China? How would Canadians feel about using ATMs and cell phones if they learned that Chinese and Indians (not computers) were working behind the scenes to make these services available?

If we change the words "Chinese/Indian/immigrants" with "high-tech computers", does that change MikeDavid's argument?

I see it everytime my kids have a birthday party my house looks like a United Nations meeting....

The UN? Computers are taking over everywhere too. We even have these crazy Internet forums now... Edited June 30, 2010 by August1991

[Machjo]

I love occasionally coming back to the forum to see what's going on. You have a lot of the forum living in remote areas that have their own skewed vision of what the CBC wants them to think what Canada is really about. However, I live it each day.

I actually worked in an IT dept in the fall where the dept. was taken over by Russians and Chinese. I was the English speaking odd ball. I noticed that they would go out of their way to hire these people so they can speak their language to one another.

Hmm.. what about all the Canadian programmers that graduated from my course years ago during the tech boom that couldn't get a job. We have TONS of out of work IT Canadians who need jobs, yet my wife just 3 days ago was telling me how there was someone giving her dept. TRAINING with POOR broken English saying 'I landed in Canada in 2007'. Nice to see we are letting the 3rd world come here to peruse their dreams at the cost of ours.

I know this post, or this job posting doesn't speak to 99% of the people reading this, but for the 30% of Canadians that this is effecting daily, this below job posting is for you.. you guys know what's really happening in Canada:

http://www.workopolis.com/EN/job/11529480

Thanks!

(I know I know Harper.. you're still chasing the dream of some kind of Chinese vote. Harper can go to hell as far as I'm concerned. Just know that you and your immigration policy are causing hundreds of thousands of Canadians to lose their jobs, lose their homes and lose everything just so you can promote an immigration policy to ensure you stay in power. I hope you sleep well at night knowing what you are doing to us. The other lames on this forum, they don't work and don't live in the real Canada so 99% don't understand this post. Go back to the CBC and let them dictate to you what you should think).

Maybe they do business with China, or have a large Chinese-speaking clientèle?

[Machjo]

By the way, though I'm not fluent in Mandarin, I can speak it, though I am essentially illiterate in the language save for a few characters that I can read and write. I also speak 2 other languages fluently besides English, and am fully literate in them too.

I hate to say this but there is some work that I do, especially involving translation, cultural interpretation, etc. that most just could not do. So, do we make it illegal for such jobs to exist or for employers to advertise for those jobs? Different jobs need different skills, and in the modern world, language is an increasingly important skill. If you look at the percentage of internet sites in English in the world, it's been shrinking the last few decades. A number of countries in Europe have been de-emphasizing English as the second language in the school system in favour of more diversity (now in Hungary students can choose from 20 different languages; in Italy, 5; in Poland, 4, and this has been an upward trend compared to a decade or so ago where the range of language options was more limited).

I hate to say this, but English is now experiencing a slow and gradual decline on the world stage. It will certainly continue to be a major world language 70 years from now, but most likely like French today. Remember, most English speakers in the world today are second language speakers. It would not take much for them to just abandon English altogether.

I'd done some work in the Chinese tourism industry before, and some companies were struggling to find Spanish interpretors, Polish interpretors, etc. In fact, in China today, a Chinese-Polish interpretor can earn 5 times the salary of a Chinese-English interpretor, and companies in need of Spanish-Chinese interpretors advertise nation-wide and offer to pay for moving expenses, etc.

England has already started to feel the pinch, as its schools have started ramping up second-language instruction in the last decade after having pushed it almost off the curriculum a decade earlier. Now it's desperately playing catch-up.

If Canada were wise, we'd be doing the same thing in our school system. The idea of all English-Canadians learning French and all French-Canadians learning English just doesn't cut it anymore. We need to give students more second-language choices so that they can reach out to the larger world market. I can guarantee that as the economic reality shifts away from the English-speaking world the rest of the world won't bow to our wish to speak loud and slow. If they have the money, and we want it, then we have to speak their language if we want them to buy our product. That's the reality of the game.