Smallc Posted July 31, 2010 Report Posted July 31, 2010 they stopped with the end of the Warsaw Pact but the USA/Nato continued it's patrols why not stop when the cold war ended? which side continued the agressive behaviour? our side... Oh yeah, really.... Quote
dre Posted July 31, 2010 Report Posted July 31, 2010 Why were Russian bombers caught off Nwfdlnd today? Why would they wish to test our defences? Perhaps the Cold War is over...for us in our minds...others seem keen to keep playing the game. It probably went something like this... Stephen Harper On Phone With Vladmir Putin: Harper: Vladdy baby! How are ya today? I got that case of vodka you sent me, thanx alot. Putin: No problem! Thanx for the maple syrop! What can I do for ya today? Harper: Well... the peace loving Canadian tree-huggers are whining about me spending 15 billion dollars I dont have on some fancy new fighter jets, in order reward some buddies of mine in the Military Industrial Complex! Can you believe it? Putin: Fuckin hippies... Harper: And I was thinkin... You got a couple of old bombers kicking around up there, with nothing to do today... Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
DogOnPorch Posted July 31, 2010 Report Posted July 31, 2010 which has been Russia's game plan, keep it simple, make it strong and build as many as possible to overwhelm the opponent...WW2 the tiger was the best thing on tracks but the Russians and the USA/UK/Canada did with the Sherman lose 4 for every Tiger but eventually win out... Actually, the Tiger was a bit of a pill. The real killer was the Panther. The Russians massed produced two sturdy, simple tanks and used those frames to make all their other variants...these were the KV chassis and the T-34 chassis. See my 'Tanks a Lot' thread in the OT section for more on that. In the air, this doesn't always pan out (quantity over quality)...see Syria's losses during the '82 War in Lebanon. 80+ vs zip. Korea and Viet-Nam as well saw huge losses for the Communists for some very minor victories over the Americans here and there. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
nicky10013 Posted July 31, 2010 Author Report Posted July 31, 2010 It probably went something like this... Stephen Harper On Phone With Vladmir Putin: Harper: Vladdy baby! How are ya today? I got that case of vodka you sent me, thanx alot. Putin: No problem! Thanx for the maple syrop! What can I do for ya today? Harper: Well... the peace loving Canadian tree-huggers are whining about me spending 15 billion dollars I dont have on some fancy new fighter jets, in order reward some buddies of mine in the Military Industrial Complex! Can you believe it? Putin: Fuckin hippies... Harper: And I was thinkin... You got a couple of old bombers kicking around up there, with nothing to do today... It happens quite a bit. Russians have been doing arctic test flights for a few years now. Harper has only scrambled planes when it's politically convenient to do so. The last time it happened was when McKay was up for Sec Gen of NATO. Now we hear of planes being intercepted right after the purchase of fighter planes. These things aren't coincidences and has nothing to do with Putin. Though the satire is pretty funny. Quote
wyly Posted July 31, 2010 Report Posted July 31, 2010 Oh yeah, really.... ya really...they mothballed their fleet and let it rust in the shipyards, they stopped their air patrols and Nato did what? the same as usual...the opportunity for normal peaceful relations was lost because of paranoia... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
DogOnPorch Posted July 31, 2010 Report Posted July 31, 2010 they stopped with the end of the Warsaw Pact but the USA/Nato continued it's patrols why not stop when the cold war ended? which side continued the agressive behaviour? our side... Russia until not too long ago couldn't afford to keep its bomber fleet out of mothballs. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Smallc Posted July 31, 2010 Report Posted July 31, 2010 It happens quite a bit. Russians have been doing arctic test flights for a few years now. Harper has only scrambled planes when it's politically convenient to do so. Harper doesn't scramble anything. NORAD does. Quote
Smallc Posted July 31, 2010 Report Posted July 31, 2010 Russia until not too long ago couldn't afford to keep its bomber fleet out of mothballs. That's exactly it. Now that they aren't in mothballs, they seem to be using them an awful lot. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted July 31, 2010 Report Posted July 31, 2010 That's exactly it. Now that they aren't in mothballs, they seem to be using them an awful lot. Yup...good ol' Tu-95s and Tu-22s along with the newish Tu-160s...perhaps the odd Mya-4 still humping along. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted July 31, 2010 Report Posted July 31, 2010 Harper doesn't scramble anything. NORAD does. Correct. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
wyly Posted July 31, 2010 Report Posted July 31, 2010 Actually, the Tiger was a bit of a pill. The real killer was the Panther. The Russians massed produced two sturdy, simple tanks and used those frames to make all their other variants...these were the KV chassis and the T-34 chassis. See my 'Tanks a Lot' thread in the OT section for more on that. In the air, this doesn't always pan out (quantity over quality)...see Syria's losses during the '82 War in Lebanon. 80+ vs zip. Korea and Viet-Nam as well saw huge losses for the Communists for some very minor victories over the Americans here and there. I'm very familiar with Russian tanks and all that but the technological gap bewtween russian equipment of the day and German was much smaller they were current...Syria, Iraq and all the rest never had 1st rate russian equipment they were always a generation behind with export models, there was a generation gap...so the comparison isn't accurate... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
dre Posted July 31, 2010 Report Posted July 31, 2010 ya really...they mothballed their fleet and let it rust in the shipyards, they stopped their air patrols and Nato did what? the same as usual...the opportunity for normal peaceful relations was lost because of paranoia... Not paranoia... Industry. Providing security to frightened westerners is the most lucrative industry in the history of the human race. Quote I question things because I am human. And call no one my father who's no closer than a stranger
wyly Posted July 31, 2010 Report Posted July 31, 2010 Correct. that's true but Harper decides when to make a photo op out of it, these flights are routine and not big deal... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
nicky10013 Posted July 31, 2010 Author Report Posted July 31, 2010 Oh yeah, really.... Yeah, that's true. They've stepped up the flights because they want to reassert Russian greatness on the world stage. Oil and natural gas money has gone to their head. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted July 31, 2010 Report Posted July 31, 2010 I'm very familiar with Russian tanks and all that but the technological gap bewtween russian equipment of the day and German was much smaller they were current...Syria, Iraq and all the rest never had 1st rate russian equipment they were always a generation behind with export models, there was a generation gap...so the comparison isn't accurate... OK...show me an air conflict where quantity of aircraft won out over general quality of pilots and planes. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Smallc Posted July 31, 2010 Report Posted July 31, 2010 perhaps the odd Mya-4 still humping along. I doubt that there are any left. Quote
wyly Posted July 31, 2010 Report Posted July 31, 2010 Not paranoia... Industry. Providing security to frightened westerners is the most lucrative industry in the history of the human race. yes there is that, the war industry employees hundreds of thousands and no doubt donates millions to election campaigns....it's good business to keep the industry going and bad politics to let the economy falterit'll a take a very brave politician to cut back funding.... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
Smallc Posted July 31, 2010 Report Posted July 31, 2010 (edited) that's true but Harper decides when to make a photo op out of it, these flights are routine and not big deal... As far as I'm concerned, every one of them is a big deal. The closest Canada gets to russian airspace is the NATO E-3 Sentry flights done on our behalf. These probes are completely unprovoked. The UK 2007 case was similar and even more serious. Edited July 31, 2010 by Smallc Quote
nicky10013 Posted July 31, 2010 Author Report Posted July 31, 2010 OK...show me an air conflict where quantity of aircraft won out over general quality of pilots and planes. I believe he was using tanks as an example. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted July 31, 2010 Report Posted July 31, 2010 btw: during the 6 Day war, the standard Israeli tank was the M-50 Super Sherman. It went up against the modern and superior T-54/55 and T-62 and kicked rear. Reason: elite Israeli crews. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
nicky10013 Posted July 31, 2010 Author Report Posted July 31, 2010 As far as I'm concerned, every one of them is a big deal. The closest Canada gets to russian airspace is the NATO E-3 Sentry flights done on our behalf. I don't disagree, but like with everything with this government, it only gets publicised so it can be politicised. Quote
DogOnPorch Posted July 31, 2010 Report Posted July 31, 2010 I doubt that there are any left. The Russkies never send anything to the chopper for good...lol. Quote Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Smallc Posted July 31, 2010 Report Posted July 31, 2010 I don't disagree, but like with everything with this government, it only gets publicised so it can be politicised. That is true, but it does speak to a need for jet fighters in the future, and probably an upgrade. The only thing Im concerned about is the lack of speed from the F-35 (though it has good range). I wonder if in fact the equally expensive Typhoon wouldn't have been a better buy for what we need (despite it's lack of real stealth). Quote
Smallc Posted July 31, 2010 Report Posted July 31, 2010 The Russkies never send anything to the chopper for good...lol. lol, still, I think they have enough of the other 3 models. Quote
wyly Posted July 31, 2010 Report Posted July 31, 2010 OK...show me an air conflict where quantity of aircraft won out over general quality of pilots and planes. WW2, Germans arguably had the best/most advanced aircraft and initially the best trained pilots in the end it could not replace planes faster than the Russians or the British, over whelming numbers defeated them... Quote “Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives.”- John Stuart Mill
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