Research Paper: Seal Hunt

[Sir Bandelot]

I think this topic shows that you don't need a paid employee to correct misinformation - and that people set in their opinions aren't going to pay an attention to facts anyway.

Yes it does, on both counts.

[Guest American Woman]

The opposition is almost all from abroad, from the ignorant and hypocritical.

Let me make a minor adjustment on that statement: The opposition is almost all from abroad, from the ignorant and hypocritical nations we need to export our seal products to.

[nicky10013]

I wonder if this thread has to do with what I heard of 680 news radio yesterday. The government contracted out a toronto social media company to conduct an information campaign on canadian political forums (all of them, I'm guessing including newspaper message boards) to correct "bad information" regarding the seal hunt. Basically their job is to monitor forums and then to clear up any "misconception" regarding the hunt.

[Guest American Woman]

I wonder if this thread has to do with what I heard of 680 news radio yesterday. The government contracted out a toronto social media company to conduct an information campaign on canadian political forums (all of them, I'm guessing including newspaper message boards) to correct "bad information" regarding the seal hunt. Basically their job is to monitor forums and then to clear up any "misconception" regarding the hunt.

I wonder if they would clear up the misconception that the government is putting out there; the impression that it's unlawful to kill baby seals? They choose their words quite carefully, saying it's "illegal to kill white coats" in answer to the charge that it's legal to kill babies.

It's legal to kill seals that have not yet learned to swim or hunt. What would the government have us call an animal at that stage of its development? Other than "not a white coat," that is. I'd really like to hear them answer that question head-on.

[Guest American Woman]

On this rare occasion I disagree with you. I see little principled distrinction between killing seal pups because they are helpless or killing equally helpless beef cattle or fattened hogs.

Yeah, right. "Rare occasion."

If you want to tackle the topic of whether or not it's wrong to eat meat, that's a whole different issue. This issue is in regards to animals in the wild; animals that are not bought, feed, raised, and otherwise cared for the way livestock are. I'll point out that pets can't be killed the way livestock can, because even though they are animals, it's a different situation. So let's not cloud the issue here with examples that aren't relevant comparisons.

I've also stated that I am against the baiting of wild animals. I would support a ban on the practice as I feel it also sets the animals up as "sitting ducks" or creates a situation like "shooting fish in a barrel."

I object to the killing of baby seals. I don't agree with the legality of it.

[M.Dancer]

I'll point out that pets can't be killed the way livestock can, because even though they are animals, it's a different situation.

Of course they can. A bolt gun works just as well on a dog as it does on cattle.

[dre]

Seems all fine to me.

We can allow seal hunting in Canada all we want... by the same token the EU and others should have the right to not import products they feel conflict with their values.

I personally think its silly to treat the seal hunt any different than any other animal harvest, but if EU countries feel differently then thats their perogative.

I DO think theres intrinsic value in treating animals humanely... and if theres a better way than clubbing then Id probably be in favor of that. Id still rather be a baby seal in Canada than a sheep or a cow.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Let me make a minor adjustment on that statement: The opposition is almost all from abroad, from the ignorant and hypocritical nations we need to export our seal products to.

I was unaware that China, Russia, and Norway have banned seal products. Oh wait they haven't.

I DO think theres intrinsic value in treating animals humanely... and if theres a better way than clubbing then Id probably be in favor of that.

Aside from the other method that used which is shooting them with a high powered rifle (Which is used in 95% of the cases) there isn't. Of course the sealers still have to club the seal to make sure in unconscious before they cut the arteries under its flipper to make sure it bleeds out and dies.

Edited May 24, 2010 by TrueMetis

[Guest American Woman]

I was unaware that China, Russia, and Norway have banned seal products. Oh wait they haven't.

Russia has. And note I didn't say all. So, since you've got China and Norway, quityerbitchin already.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Russia has. And note I didn't say all. So, since you've got China and Norway, quityerbitchin already.

Uh no it hasn't, it banned hunting seals under 1 year of age that doesn't mean they have banned all seal products.

Here's a couple of articles on the seal hunt for anyone interested.

Top 10: Reasons To Support The Seal Hunt

Nordic hunters say EU seal ban wastes resources

Inuit groups sue EU over seal trade ban

Edited May 24, 2010 by TrueMetis

[Guest American Woman]

Uh no it hasn't, it banned hunting seals under 1 year of age that doesn't mean they have banned all seal products.

So why doesn't Canada ban hunting seals under one year old? Could this be why?

According to the National Post:

The Russian ban effectively ends commercial seal hunting in that country, as most of the market for pelts comes from seals less than a year old.

link

Edited May 24, 2010 by American Woman

[Guest TrueMetis]

So why doesn't Canada ban hunting seals under one year old? Could this be why?

According to the National Post:

I'm confused on what your point is. Yes we kill them under 1 year of age for many reasons. 1) that's were most of the demand is. 2) We know where they are they are easy to find. 3) Killing the young is the best for conservation. Whats you point?

Second that still doesn't show that Russia has banned the importation of of seal products. It says they aren't going to be hunting seals, which is fine by me that means they will have to buy more from Canada.

[Guest American Woman]

I'm confused on what your point is. Yes we kill them under 1 year of age for many reasons. 1) that's were most of the demand is. 2) We know where they are they are easy to find. 3) Killing the young is the best for conservation. Whats you point?

Ummmm.... That the U.S., Mexico, the EU, in other words a large portion of Canada's market, has banned seal products. And if you want to believe that Russia will still be buying from you, go ahead.

Second that still doesn't show that Russia has banned the importation of of seal products. It says they aren't going to be hunting seals, which is fine by me that means they will have to buy more from Canada.

Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure Russia banned the killing of seals under on year old for moral reasons, but they're going to turn around and import them from Canada. That makes sense. Bad if Russians kill seals under a year old, ok if Canadians do.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Ummmm.... That the U.S., Mexico, the EU, in other words a large portion of Canada's market, has banned seal products. And if you want to believe that Russia will still be buying from you, go ahead.

The U.S. and Mexico have never been a large importer of seal products, if an importer at all. And do you think that the seal hunt is going to result in those countries banning other Canadian products? That's funny. The Eu actually did import seal products but it wasn't even that big of a player. The main market has always been Norway.

Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure Russia banned the killing of seals under on year old for moral reasons, but they're going to turn around and import them from Canada. That makes sense. Bad if Russians kill seals under a year old, ok if Canadians do.

Russia did it in a PR ploy. And where did I say that Russia hunting harp seals was bad? Quit putting words in my mouth.

[Guest American Woman]

The U.S. and Mexico have never been a large importer of seal products, if an importer at all. And do you think that the seal hunt is going to result in those countries banning other Canadian products? That's funny.

I suppose it would be funny .... if I actually thought that, or said anything even close to resembling it.

The Eu actually did import seal products but it wasn't even that big of a player. The main market has always been Norway.

Yet the EU is the topic of this thread, so there must be some reason for the concern/interest.

Russia did it in a PR ploy. And where did I say that Russia hunting harp seals was bad? Quit putting words in my mouth.

So you have the inside scoop as to why Russia does what it does, eh? And where did I say that you said that Russia hunting harp seals was bad?

Think what you will. I honestly couldn't care less. The OP asked for people's input, I gave mine. Apparently some here can't handle opposition to the hunt. My objective was never to judge, and I never have. I've simply stated my opinion, none of it false, lies, pure emotion, hysterical, or any of the other descriptions that have been used.

[Argus]

Let me make a minor adjustment on that statement: The opposition is almost all from abroad, from the ignorant and hypocritical nations we need to export our seal products to.

Not one of which takes as much care of the animals within its borders as Canada does.

[Argus]

Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure Russia banned the killing of seals under on year old for moral reasons, but they're going to turn around and import them from Canada. That makes sense. Bad if Russians kill seals under a year old, ok if Canadians do.

Ohmygod. Are you really, really this dumb? Do you actually feel Vladamir Putin, a man who would kill a million school children if it would further his lust for power, has moral qualms about killing seals!? I mean, Putin!? Putin has never demonstrated that he has the slightest moral conscience with regard to ANYTHING. He'll kill and steal from anyone he can, and you think he gets the sniffles about baby seals?

He did it on a whim as a publicity stunt to show what a "caring" man he is, that's all.

[Argus]

My objective was never to think, and I never have.

Fixed that for ya.

[jbg]

Not one of which takes as much care of the animals within its borders as Canada does.

Saskatchewan does a lousy job of protecting its seals compared to other provinces such as NL and Alberta.

[jbg]

My objective was never to judge, and I never have.

My objective was never to think (Argus' edit), and I never have.

Fixed that for ya.

Argus, I have to call you out on that. AW's posts are often gutsy, do not follow politically correct dictates and are well thought out. She is no troll, and compared to many other unlamented posters here, actually makes some good points.

[Smallc]

Saskatchewan does a lousy job of protecting its seals compared to other provinces such as NL and Alberta.

We get it.

[M.Dancer]

So why doesn't Canada ban hunting seals under one year old? Could this be why?

According to the National Post:

The Russian ban effectively ends commercial seal hunting in that country, as most of the market for pelts comes from seals less than a year old.

link

Export

Canada's biggest market for seal pelts is Norway.[54] Carino Limited is one of Newfoundland's largest seal pelt producers. Carino (CAnada–RIeber–NOrway) is marketing its seal pelts mainly through its parent company, GC Rieber Skinn, Bergen, Norway.[55] Canada sold pelts to eleven countries in 2004. The next largest wereGermany, Greenland, and China/Hong Kong. Other importers were Finland, Denmark, France, Greece, South Korea, and Russia.[56] Asia remains the principal market for seal meat exports.[57] One of Canada's market access priorities for 2002 was to "continue to press Korean authorities to obtain the necessary approvals for the sale of seal meat for human consumption in Korea."[58] Canadian and Korean officials agreed in 2003 on specific Korean import requirements for seal meat.[59] For 2004, only Taiwan and South Korea purchased seal meat from Canada.[36]

Canadian seal product exports reached $18 million (CAD) in 2006. Of this, $5.4 million went to the EU.[60] In 2009 the European Union banned all seal imports, shrinking the market.[61]. Where pelts once sold for more than $100, they now fetch $8 to $15 each.[50]

[Argus]

Argus, I have to call you out on that. AW's posts are often gutsy, do not follow politically correct dictates and are well thought out. She is no troll, and compared to many other unlamented posters here, actually makes some good points.

I didn't suggest she was a troll. Nor did I make any mention of her political correctness or lack thereof. But on this subject she is an unthinking, emotional reactionary with no knowledge and no evident desire to obtain any.

[WIP]

I didn't suggest she was a troll. Nor did I make any mention of her political correctness or lack thereof. But on this subject she is an unthinking, emotional reactionary with no knowledge and no evident desire to obtain any.

Find me a hot issue today these days that isn't emotionally charged! That's still no excuse for hurling abuse at someone with a different viewpoint. If someone sees things differently and feels a strong emotional attachment to their beliefs, well....well, it's just going to take a little more work on your part to win them over. Unless of course, your purpose is to hurl abuse at people you don't agree with.

Fact is the reason why the sealing industry became the first target of animal rights activists is because of the awareness that baby seals are cute, and pictures of hunters clubbing them over the head and leaving a bloody mess on the ice flows would cause outrage and resonate with the audience they were trying to reach....and of course, bring in lots of donations!

Personally, I have mixed feelings about this industry. It doesn't serve a whole lot of economic purpose anymore, and I would consider anyone who either enjoys or feels no guilt about killing baby animals to be a potential criminal, or at least an antisocial misfit. But, on the other hand, there are far worse animal abuse situations involving both domestic and wild animals that cannot get the proper public awareness, because they are not as cute as baby seals!

[Guest TrueMetis]

It doesn't serve a whole lot of economic purpose anymore..

Tell that to the people that make 5-35% of there annual income off the seal hunt.