Mosque going up in NYC building

[Bonam]

Actually, nobody has demonstrated the stupidity of it.

It has obviously proven to be counterproductive in its stated goals of building bridges, healing wounds, reaching out to the community. It has become an issue that has polarized the nation along many lines. It has clearly failed in its objectives, and pushing ahead with it despite of this is shear stupidity.

[Guest American Woman]

It has obviously proven to be counterproductive in its stated goals of building bridges, healing wounds, reaching out to the community. It has become an issue that has polarized the nation along many lines. It has clearly failed in its objectives, and pushing ahead with it despite of this is shear stupidity.

Not only is it failing to "build bridges," only because of "intolerance," according to Canadian, it's gotten to the point where the controversy surrounding it is providing terrorists with more recruits, donations, and popular support. Makes one begin to wonder what the "purpose" really is when they insist on going ahead with the project on that property in spite of all the repercussions.

[ToadBrother]

Nope. That's not what I'm saying at all. Never said any such thing. Not even close. It's your limitations in reading comprehension that's saying that.

Here's what I'm saying:

Here's what I believe:

All Muslims are not responsible for 9-11.

All Muslims are not terrorists.

Muslims have the right to build on the property in question and I will defend that right; however, I question whether it's the right thing to do.

Considering the fact that Muslims damaged the property the mosque is being built on on 9-11, and but for those actions this property would not be available for the mosque, I feel it's insensitive to build on this property.

I therefore believe those in charge of the project should build elsewhere out of empathy to those who lost loved ones on 9-11 and out of understanding for the way the majority of Americans feel about it, and that includes Muslims who share the same views.

I believe empathy and understanding are a two way street.

I hold myself and all nations/religions/people to the same standards.

I agreed wholeheartedly with Bush when he said we should not blame all Muslims for 9-11; that we are not at war with Islam.

I think it's now time for Muslims to understand where non-Muslims are coming from regarding this issue.

Refute what I said and think, or I will keep reposting what I said and think in response to your ignorance/inability-to-comprehend-what-I-said/dishonesty. Keep misrepresenting what I actually believe, keep putting your ignorant views on me, and you will keep seeing what I really think/believe repeated over and over again.

We wrote the same thing. I just removed all the useless verbiage and all the sanctimonious and pious B.S.

[ToadBrother]

Not only is it failing to "build bridges," only because of "intolerance," according to Canadian, it's gotten to the point where the controversy surrounding it is providing terrorists with more recruits, donations, and popular support. Makes one begin to wonder what the "purpose" really is when they insist on going ahead with the project on that property in spite of all the repercussions.

Ah yes, and when all else fails, invoke an Islamist conspiracy.

Bigotry, pure and simple.

[Guest American Woman]

Ah yes, and when all else fails, invoke an Islamist conspiracy.

Bigotry, pure and simple.

When all else fails, accuse anyone who dares raise a question of "invoking an Islamist conspiracy."

Stupidity, pure and simple.

[DogOnPorch]

Not a lot of middle ground here...lol.

[CANADIEN]

I'm still waiting, since you made no mention of the flag. I'm sure you just inadvertently forgot to include it, though, so I'll repeat my previous question to you, giving you another chance to answer:

...do you get this upset every time the American flag is burned in protest? Every time someone proclaims to the world that they hate the U.S. and will burn the flag to prove it, in a deliberate show of hatred?

And the answer is???

i didn't realize that the thread was about flag.

but let's it. It is already clear I feel acts of hatred are wrong. So, do you really need to ask what I think of burning a flag out of hatred? It's not already evident to you?

[Shady]

Bigotry, pure and simple.

When all else fails, and somebody disagrees with you, resort to classic McCarthyism.

[Guest American Woman]

i didn't realize that the thread was about flag.

but let's it. It is already clear I feel acts of hatred are wrong. So, do you really need to ask what I think of burning a flag out of hatred? It's not already evident to you?

The thread's not about burning the Koran, either, yet you've had no problem expressing your outrage over that.

But I'm touched that you feel so strongly about those who burn the American flag in a show of hatred towards America; I'm touched that you think it's WRONG and HEINOUS, and I look forward to your expressing your outrage over it in the future.

[Guest American Woman]

Not a lot of middle ground here...lol.

Evidently not.

Now I'm apparently invoking an Islamist conspiracy. Jeeesh. The conclusions some people jump to so easily .....

[CANADIEN]

Not only is it failing to "build bridges," only because of "intolerance," according to Canadian, it's gotten to the point where the controversy surrounding it is providing terrorists with more recruits, donations, and popular support. Makes one begin to wonder what the "purpose" really is when they insist on going ahead with the project on that property in spite of all the repercussions.

You actually do believe that people will not get the meaning behind your "!one begins to wonder" bit? If you gonna question the intent of the promoters of the Cordoba Project, do it openly, not using weasel words.

[Guest American Woman]

You actually do believe that people will not get the meaning behind your "!one begins to wonder" bit? If you gonna question the intent of the promoters of the Cordoba Project, do it openly, not using weasel words.

"Weasel words?"

Do tell. What exactly is my "meaning?"

[kimmy]

But only a moron would consider hateful acts clearly advertised as acts of hatred to be ok because /they own the book/.

I guess what we need is a definition of "ok".

If "not ok" means "against the law", then burning Qurans, Bibles, flags, or effigies is indisputably "ok".

If "not ok" means "hurts peoples feelings", then burning Qurans, Bibles, flags, or effigies is certainly not "ok".

Do you have some other definition of "ok" that you'd like to offer, one that considers the hurt feelings of Muslims who are sad that Florida yokels burned their scripture, but discounts the hurt feelings of New Yorkers who are sad that Imam Feisal is co-opting their "hallowed ground" for his own message?

-k

[CANADIEN]

"Weasel words?"

Do tell. What exactly is my "meaning?"

Yes weasel words.

If there is one thing that I learned from experience, it's that people who say "one begin to wobnder" are actually insinuating that something is happening.

So, tell us what the real intent of the promoters of the cordoba Project is, since you ahem "wonde" what it is (in other word, it is clear to me that you don't believe them).

[Shady]

So, tell us what the real intent of the promoters of the cordoba Project is, since you ahem "wonde" what it is (in other word, it is clear to me that you don't believe them).

Actually, I've begun to wonder about them as well. They just seem hell bent on pushing their plan forward, despite the feelings of anyone around them. It's somewhat bizarre.

[CANADIEN]

I guess what we need is a definition of "ok".

If "not ok" means "against the law", then burning Qurans, Bibles, flags, or effigies is indisputably "ok".

If "not ok" means "hurts peoples feelings", then burning Qurans, Bibles, flags, or effigies is certainly not "ok".

Do you have some other definition of "ok" that you'd like to offer, one that considers the hurt feelings of Muslims who are sad that Florida yokels burned their scripture, but discounts the hurt feelings of New Yorkers who are sad that Imam Feisal is co-opting their "hallowed ground" for his own message?

-k

You really ARE that obtuse. It is not about "hurt feeling". It is about the simple fact that acts of hatred are wrong. Don't worry, I do not expect you to understand that.

[kimmy]

You really ARE that obtuse. It is not about "hurt feeling". It is about the simple fact that acts of hatred are wrong. Don't worry, I do not expect you to understand that.

"Wrong"? Because it's "not nice"?

-k

[CANADIEN]

Actually, I've begun to wonder about them as well. They just seem hell bent on pushing their plan forward, despite the feelings of anyone around them. It's somewhat bizarre.

What would be bizarre would be for anyone to believe you.

Edited August 31, 2010 by CANADIEN

[CANADIEN]

"Wrong"? Because it's "not nice"?

-k

Feel free to make a fool of yourself.

[kimmy]

Feel free to make a fool of yourself.

I'm trying to ascertain how the "wrongness" of this was decided.

I mean, the Quran probably says that burning Qurans is wrong, but it might be biased.

I notice you told AW that you think burning the flag out of hate is "wrong", even though the Supreme Court decided that burning the flag is "ok", for whatever reason.

What if somebody you think might be burning a flag out of hate is actually burning a flag out of their belief that it's a statement of their political beliefs? Is it still "wrong"?

-k

[kimmy]

It's "wrong" because it's "mean", right?

-k

[CANADIEN]

I'm trying to ascertain how the "wrongness" of this was decided.

I mean, the Quran probably says that burning Qurans is wrong, but it might be biased.

I notice you told AW that you think burning the flag out of hate is "wrong", even though the Supreme Court decided that burning the flag is "ok", for whatever reason.

What if somebody you think might be burning a flag out of hate is actually burning a flag out of their belief that it's a statement of their political beliefs? Is it still "wrong"?

-k

Keep digging yourself in a hole. The U.S. Supreme Court was not asked to decide is burning a flag is right or wrong. It was asked to determine if it was legal.

[kimmy]

Keep digging yourself in a hole. The U.S. Supreme Court was not asked to decide is burning a flag is right or wrong. It was asked to determine if it was legal.

So what makes it "wrong" then? Your 3rd grade elementary school teacher? Some absolute moral authority you believe in? If Uncle Sam himself says you can burn his flag, why is it "wrong"?

-k

[Guest American Woman]

Yes weasel words.

If there is one thing that I learned from experience, it's that people who say "one begin to wobnder" are actually insinuating that something is happening.

Apparently your experience must be quite limited, because when I say "one begins to wonder..." I mean just that. So I'm "insinuating" nothing. I'm clearly stating that I'm beginning to wonder if the "purpose" of the project is "to build bridges." Nothing ominous or weaselly about it. Just a clear and simple statement that anyone should be able to understand.

[CANADIEN]

Apparently your experience must be quite limited, because when I say "one begins to wonder..." I mean just that. So I'm "insinuating" nothing. I'm clearly stating that I'm beginning to wonder if the "purpose" of the project is "to build bridges." Nothing ominous or weaselly about it. Just a clear and simple statement that anyone should be able to understand.

And what everyone should be able to understand is that I don't buy it.