Conservatives eat one of their own.

[ZenOps]

Its a sad, sad day when a democratically elected official can be thrown out of their position by their own party for no solid reason.

I mean, if she ate babies or something - that would be reason. But as is right now - many do see this as a travesty of democracy. King Harper is back on his throne, throwing down Judical and Executive powers (which technically, many say the PM or the Conservative party does not have, just legislative)

Throwing out Helena - I will say is almost bordering on illegal. You can't just fire someone without giving them a reason as to why they are being fired. If she was wearing mini-skirts hiring male hookers and doing blow, that would be a reason at least.

[M.Dancer]

Its a sad, sad day when a democratically elected official can be thrown out of their position by their own party for no solid reason.

Lobbying for a company that her husband was involved with, to her cousin who was a civic offer..is a solid reason.

[ZenOps]

Lobbying for a company that her husband was involved with, to her cousin who was a civic offer..is a solid reason.

Hey - Inappropriate lobbying as defined by who? Passing out a business card at an inappropriate place? Who decides what is appropriate and inappropriate. I give out my cheap business card to anyone anywhere, friends, family, distant relations, enemies, casual people off the street, bums, dogs...

The simple fact is that the party has determined "They don't like" certain people because "they don't like what they are doing" and got rid of them by mostly destroying their reputation - Which this government does not seem to see as unethical.

The level of inappropriateness is for a judge to decide, not King Harper. King Harper would probably throw her out for wearing hot pants too I bet.

Edited May 11, 2010 by ZenOps

[M.Dancer]

Hey - Inappropriate lobbying as defined by who? Passing out a business card at an inappropriate place? Who decides what is appropriate and inappropriate. I give out my cheap business card to anyone anywhere, friends, family, distant relations, enemies, casual people off the street, bums, dogs...

The simple fact is that the party has determined "They don't like" certain people because "they don't like what they are doing" and got rid of them by mostly destroying their reputation - Which this government does not seem to see as unethical.

By Canadian law. MPs and especially cabinet ministers are not allowed to lobby for any holding that a family member connected to.

It is pretty cut and dried. She crossed the line with that.

[capricorn]

Lobbying for a company that her husband was involved with, to her cousin who was a civic offer..is a solid reason.

I haven't heard the interview she gave the CBC. It's reported she said she was concerned about a possible conflict when she wrote the letter to her cousin but Jaffer assured her he had no connection to the firm in question. That was a huge lapse of judgment on her part. Having been a Minister, she should have known better than to take his word for it.

[Moonbox]

Its a sad, sad day when a democratically elected official can be thrown out of their position by their own party for no solid reason.

She was democratically elected and she'll remain an MP. Harper can't take that away from her. There's nothing undemocratic about not wanting to associate with her though. She's an embarrassment to the party and she'll cause more harm than good. What else is there to know? Honestly?

She's married to an absolute deadbeat (reflects heavily on her). She embarrasses the party at airports. That is enough itself to question why the Tories would want her around. Add even SUSPICION of corruption to the mix and you've got one big fat liability on your hands. Good riddance.

[ZenOps]

By Canadian law. MPs and especially cabinet ministers are not allowed to lobby for any holding that a family member connected to.

It is pretty cut and dried. She crossed the line with that.

Yes it was the husband Jaffer that handed out the outdated business cards and is accused of lobbying outside the bounds of what they consider acceptable.

I guess that means shes automatically liable under Christian law... But remember Jaffer *is* Muslim, the first muslim ever to hold a MP position.

Never understood it myself - Eva Braun should be just as liable as Hitler then? What about a son/daughter in politics?

Cross lobbying happens all the time - Mayors usually get consensus and approval from local MP's, MLA's, before running. Kind of a stupid "law" IMO its more of a fraternity guideline.

I mean technically, you aren't allowed to fart or burp in government either, lol.

Edited May 11, 2010 by ZenOps

[M.Dancer]

Yes it was the husband Jaffer that handed out the outdated business cards and is accused of lobbying outside the bounds of what they consider acceptable.

It was guergis who wrote the letter endorsing a comapany her husband was connected to. Pay attention.

[Topaz]

Here's the video of her interview on CBC. http://www.cbc.ca/politics/story/2010/05/10/helena-guergis-exclusive-mansbridge.html

[ZenOps]

It was guergis who wrote the letter endorsing a comapany her husband was connected to. Pay attention.

And that is wrong? Yeesh, I must be out of the loop.

Even analysts that talk about stocks must have the disclaimer that they "do or don't" own the stocks that they are pumping (endorsing) or dumping (chastizing). Noone ever said that they couldn't pump though.

If you are going to get them on that, you have to say that Bush and Halliburton are the same.

Edited May 11, 2010 by ZenOps

[capricorn]

Ignatieff speaks.

"From the moment of Mr. Jaffer's arrest, warning bells should have sounded both about his business activities, about her relation to those business activities, and when she kept making misstep after misstep, I think the prime minister should have acted, a long time ago," he said.

"And now we're in the ridiculous situation where nobody knows what these serious allegations are, not even Helena Guergis, and every Canadian thinks that's crazy."

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/05/11/guergis-ignatieff011.html

Oh come on Mr. Ignatieff. There must be one or two Canadians that don't think it's crazy. No? Not even one or two? Well... if you say so.

[PIK]

The cons say she knows exactly why she was canned and is playing stupid. Now what about Mr Lee?

[Wild Bill]

Gee, who would have thought? When she was first found out, she was a Conservative Satan incarnate! Then, after Harper dumps her, the mood suddenly changes and it's "Harper is mean to women!"

Tell me again that it's not just partisanship...

[waldo]

"Harper is mean to women!"

yes - he's a brute!

[M.Dancer]

And that is wrong? Yeesh, I must be out of the loop.

Even analysts that talk about stocks must have the disclaimer that they "do or don't" own the stocks that they are pumping (endorsing) or dumping (chastizing). Noone ever said that they couldn't pump though.

If you are going to get them on that, you have to say that Bush and Halliburton are the same.

Analysts are not ministers of the crown

[jbg]

Guergis says its "UNFAIR"She is not alone in being a bit crazy and over the top or incompetent? She is not alone in scheming and scamming. Why her and if she is so bad, why not start cleaning house all around?

I see nothing wrong in booting someone who calls him or herself a "leader" and doesn't know how to conduct him or herself in public.

[Topaz]

After reading an interview with the PI, I don't there's anything there as far as Helena, except, guilt by association, her hubby. What happens within the walls of her office is a different matter but I don't think there's enough to boot her from the party. I think its Harper's excuse to get rid of her and IF she is not found guilty of anything, she will probably sue Harper and the Tory party but hey, they have lots and lots of money!

[Topaz]

Gee, who would have thought? When she was first found out, she was a Conservative Satan incarnate! Then, after Harper dumps her, the mood suddenly changes and it's "Harper is mean to women!"

Tell me again that it's not just partisanship...

Its not. Does the punishment fit the crime? Since WE don't know what the ctime is, its like she got ther death penalty for what? What about the people who died because the ministry of agriculture didn't do his job about inspectors? He still has HIS job and and Bernier was not kick out of the the party and the other MALE that didn't agree with Quebec is a nation within a nation didn't kick out when he voted against Harper. No, there more to this and since Harper and Jaffer never got a long I wonder if its the fact Jaffer is a Muslim and Harper hasn't showed great like for this group of people.

[Molly]

Hohoho! I like THAT suggestion, Topaz!

I find the whole situation just beyond humorous. It's been good for at least a dozen belly-laughs so far, and it doesn't look like the well is drying up yet. The only thing missing in this show is popcorn!

And it looks good on all of 'em.

[Moonbox]

Its not. Does the punishment fit the crime? Since WE don't know what the ctime is, its like she got ther death penalty for what? What about the people who died because the ministry of agriculture didn't do his job about inspectors? He still has HIS job and and Bernier was not kick out of the the party and the other MALE that didn't agree with Quebec is a nation within a nation didn't kick out when he voted against Harper.

Guergis is a liability to the party. She's unpopular throughout Canada, she's married to a scumbag amd it's easy to doubt whether she'd win her seat back or not. I agree Bernier should have also been kicked out, but Harper's nothing if not pragmatic and Bernier is a perennial shoe-in for his riding.

[Molly]

Guergis is a liability to the party. She's unpopular throughout Canada, she's married to a scumbag amd it's easy to doubt whether she'd win her seat back or not. I agree Bernier should have also been kicked out, but Harper's nothing if not pragmatic and Bernier is a perennial shoe-in for his riding.

And Guergis isn't? Do you seriously think the folks of Simcoe-Grey weren't familiar with her name before she ran, or that they didn't have a pretty darned good idea who/what they were voting for?

She had two and one half times as many votes as her nearest rival, last election!

Edited May 13, 2010 by Molly

[jbg]

And Guergis isn't? Do you seriously think the folks of Simcoe-Grey weren't familiar with her name before she ran, or that they didn't have a pretty darned good idea who/what they were voting for?

She had two and one half times as many votes as her nearest rival, last election!

Maybe they were voting for the party or the PM, and not for her?

[Molly]

Maybe they were voting for the party or the PM, and not for her?

The previous MP was a Liberal, FWIW.

Another Conservative nominee might have won the riding, but not by anything like that margin, and if she chooses to run as an independent next time 'round, my two bits certainly won't be on the Conservative candidate to win.

While the Guergis family political sphere has, until her, been local and thus nearly unknown outside the area, it's also the most dominant dynasty I've ever run across. Until very recently, my MP, Reeve and Mayor were all named Guergis.