Sex Ed taught in Grade1 now!

[M.Dancer]

You need to be specific about what 'teaching about' means. The curriculum that was submitted is about telling them to wait, as far as I can see.

I think introducing the concept of anal sex is a bit much. I can't remember exactly when I first learned of it, but it wasn't in grade 7. I know it was high school cause the school I went to had a large greek body...

[Born Free]

I think introducing the concept of anal sex is a bit much. I can't remember exactly when I first learned of it, but it wasn't in grade 7. I know it was high school cause the school I went to had a large greek body...

How big was his body?

[Pliny]

Sex ed in the UK is not compulsory and covers the reproductive system, fetal development, and the physical and emotional changes of adolescence. Information about contraception and safe sex is discretionary, and most Kids think they aren't getting enough sex ed. The UK is an example of not enough sex ed not to much.

Problem: An increase in sexual education leads to an increase in STD's and unwanted pregnancies.

Solution: A further increase in sex ed is necessary.

It's the scientific mind at work.

Edited April 22, 2010 by Pliny

[Pliny]

Yes their are some good teachers but not all are qualified and some come with their own agendas. how can they help it ? They are human.

By realizing they are..human?

The content of what is taught is not that important to educators and is determined by government anyway. In Canada, the provincial government determines the curriculum and the standards to be met.

It is political bodies and not educational bodies that determine what will be taught. Educators will, of course have their ideological leanings and are themselves schooled in sociological and psychological behavior which in turn are steeped in the desire to engineer, direct and control society's behavior and the individual behavior.

The prime thing a teacher wants is his students attention. It really bugs them when the student isn't paying attention. Sex will generally get someone's attention. The result is happy teachers.

Seriously, though our educators, in the public sector, especially, see their role as shaping the future of the society by shaping the minds of youth. You can probably envision what they are taught about what society should look like and that should, in and of itself, give you some understanding about the curriculum. Tolerance, peace, caring, sharing, concern for the environment and over-population, depletion of resources, are examples of the importances stressed in classrooms today.

Which subject would be important in addressing and shaping the minds of youth as regards over-population? This is of course very important because it is mostly a global concern not a national concern and understanding that we are all citizens of the world is what is critical.

Does that sound, right?

Edited April 22, 2010 by Pliny

[ToadBrother]

And if you want to do some research on the success of explicit sex-ed, look no further than the U.K. They have sex-ed at a very young age and their teen pregnancy rate and STD infection rate are amongst the world's highest. That goes against what the media wants us to know. Toadbrother, you should be old enough to realize that there are 2 sides to every coin.

Britain has some other unique problems, being that alcohol consumption there is out of control. One only has to look at the American Bible Belt to see the highest teen pregnancy rates in the US.

Kids have sex, my friend. That's all there is to it. I had sex as a teenager, just about everyone I knew did. For thousands of years teenagers have had sex. The chief difference is that 200 hundred years ago, if you were 14 or 15 and got knocked up or knocked up a girl, the two of you got married, and were likely already net economic producers, unlike today where we extend adolescence well into the 20s.

[ToadBrother]

Problem: An increase in sexual education leads to an increase in STD's and unwanted pregnancies.

Solution: A further increase in sex ed is necessary.

It's the scientific mind at work.

Let's start with the premise. Please provide citations in actual peer reviewed studies indicating that sex education leads to higher STD and pregnancy rates. Then we can talk about the rest.

[wyly]

Toadbrother, your post is full of cliches based on what you heard some "expert" say. Actually, I will take the responsibility as a parent and teach my own kids about sex at an age when they can comprehend the subject. I will not let some teacher who has completed a 5-hour course teach my kids about the ins and outs of sex. If that's what you want for your kids, then so be it. I don't think kids need to learn about oral sex when they are 12, or that anal sex is safe if a condom is used. Believe it or not, there are many teens out there with the self control to abstain.

wow you have some real serious issues with sex, you need help not your kids...

And if you want to do some research on the success of explicit sex-ed, look no further than the U.K. They have sex-ed at a very young age and their teen pregnancy rate and STD infection rate are amongst the world's highest. That goes against what the media wants us to know. Toadbrother, you should be old enough to realize that there are 2 sides to every coin.

ya lets look at the UK which in 2008 was looking at switching to a Netherlands model that starts in the first grade...the netherlands the average age for loss of virginity is 17.7 where as UK is 16, Canada & USA is 17 the world average is 16.3...

teenage birth rate per thousand, Canada 13.7, UK 26.1, USA 41.9...Netherlands 5.2

The study confirmed that the US had a higher adolescent pregnancy, abortion, and childbirth rate than almost all other developed countries. Among adolescents 15-19 years of age the pregnancy rate in the US was 96/1000. Respective rates for the Netherlands, Sweden, France, Canada, and England and Wales were 14, 35, 43, 44, and 45. The study failed to confirm many commonly proffered explanations for the high US rates. For example, the discrepancy between the US and the other 5 countries cannot be attributed to the high pregnancy rate among black teenagers in the US as the rate for white teenagers alone (83/1000) is much higher than the rate in the other 5 countries.

and when it comes to teenage STD's Canada and the UK have a rate 8 times that found in the Netherlands...you can bury your head in the sand and educate your kids or you can prepare them and show them how to use a condom before they become active...

as someone who claims to be a teacher you really suck at education...

Edited April 22, 2010 by wyly

[wyly]

I find it hard to believe that parents here think it is ok for kids to be engaging in sex at this early age.

no one is telling their kids to go out and have sex, what they want is for their kids to know what their doing before they do, be prepared...informed minds make informed decisions

It is strange how this sex education has suddenly become a buring issue; the good government is helping you decide how to demoralize your child at a younger age, and at the same time also telling you to bend over an accept the HST.

I guess we are all screwing around so much, now you cannot distinguished when you are getting a good F$%k.

you live in a country with the highest teenage, pregnancy, abortion and STD rate in the industrialized world, I would think sex education should be a priority, good government educates and protects it's most vulnerable young citizens....

[Michael Hardner]

Teaching young children about..

RB - you need to go back to the curriculum posted earlier in the thread and educate yourself. The press release from the family focus group was indeed misleading.

[ToadBrother]

Well the Premier wants our children in Grade 1 to be taught Sexual Education. That's sex ed taught to 5 and 6 year olds. Isn't this robbing them of their childhood? Isn't this the parents responsibility to decide when their children should be taught about Sex Ed and not the States? Is the State saying that they know how to raise our children better then we do?

Other than some basic anatomy, it doesn't appear that kids in grade 1 are going to be taught very much.

If kids are having sex at the age of 12 then their is a serious problem with the quality of parenting going on in the urban centres.

Or maybe it's the fact that humans are pretty horny apes.

[Muddy]

Teachers are not qualified to teach my grand children about sex. Any teacher no matter the subject has their own ideas and leanings. I don`t want homosexuals or pedophile teachers turning young minds that what they believe is OK.

I remember during the Mike Harris days teachers were spending their time teaching kids about how bad Michael Harris was. They had no right to do that in our class rooms. My daughter was convinced by the teacher to take time off school to protest the Harris government. Of course I went to the school to see if I could talk to the kids from another perspective. Nope!Was the answer from the teacher wearing an anti Harris button on his chest.

Teachers can not teach some subjects that enter into the emotional realm . At least not in grade three. Let the kids ride their bikes, shoot pucks at the garage door ,explore the woods, fish in the creek and then do some home work then dream sweet dreams not cluttered with emotions if their homosexual or not...

[Michael Hardner]

Teachers are not qualified to teach my grand children about sex. Any teacher no matter the subject has their own ideas and leanings. I don`t want homosexuals or pedophile teachers turning young minds that what they believe is OK.

That's why the teachers have a curriculum they have to follow. Did you know that ?

You should read it:

http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/eng/curriculum/elementary/health18curr2010.pdf

See I remember during the Mike Harris days teachers were spending their time teaching kids about how bad Michael Harris was. They had no right to do that in our class rooms. My daughter was convinced by the teacher to take time off school to protest the Harris government. Of course I went to the school to see if I could talk to the kids from another perspective. Nope!Was the answer from the teacher wearing an anti Harris button on his chest.

Yeah, teachers were doing that and they shouldn't have been. Of course, Harris was using tax money to take out ad slamming the 'Union Bosses' and using taxpayer money to engage in all kinds of partisan propaganda.

Thank God he's gone.

Teachers can not teach some subjects that enter into the emotional realm . At least not in grade three. Let the kids ride their bikes, shoot pucks at the garage door ,explore the woods, fish in the creek and then do some home work then dream sweet dreams not cluttered with emotions if their homosexual or not...

Yeah, you don't really know what you're talking about. Read the curriculum. Teachers don't tend to come to school and decide what they want to teach today, unlike in 1910.

[Muddy]

That's why the teachers have a curriculum they have to follow. Did you know that ?

You should read it:

http://www.edu.gov.on.ca/eng/curriculum/elementary/health18curr2010.pdf

Yeah, teachers were doing that and they shouldn't have been. Of course, Harris was using tax money to take out ad slamming the 'Union Bosses' and using taxpayer money to engage in all kinds of partisan propaganda.

Thank God he's gone.

Yeah, you don't really know what you're talking about. Read the curriculum. Teachers don't tend to come to school and decide what they want to teach today, unlike in 1910.

Not quite that old and I certainly have been a student of people for a long time. No matter what you teach in life ,school teacher,tradesmen,soldier, one can not help but teach with a slant to ones own prejudices. Example. I have a mechanic who works for me. He has an apprentice under him. He does a great job of teaching his apprentice about all he needs to know about repairing a persons car. But he also teaches ethics. He wants his charge to understand that people work hard for their money and we must always be honest and some times even sit a customer down and tell them they will have to spend more money to fix the vehicle than it is worth. Time to use the silver bullet. Then if the customer still wants the work done and OK`s the estimate do you proceed.

Do you see what I mean about teaching. You can`t help put your own slant on a subject and influence your charges.

[Michael Hardner]

A controversial new sex ed curriculum that would have seen Ontario kids learn about sexual orientation in Grade 3 and masturbation in Grade 6 will be postponed and reworked.

Premier Dalton McGuinty said it's obvious from listening to parents over the past two days that the curriculum needs a "serious rethink.''

[sarcasm]Brave brave Dalton ![\sarcasm] who never saw a press release he didn't love.

He's waiting for the overnight poll results right now, that will tell him what the "right decision' is. I for one am sick of having Ontario run with no vision aside from a marketing plan.

680 News Article

[Michael Hardner]

Do you see what I mean about teaching. You can`t help put your own slant on a subject and influence your charges.

Fair enough, but why worry about the curriculum at all then ? I trust the majority of teachers to teach as they're directed to.

[Muddy]

Fair enough, but why worry about the curriculum at all then ? I trust the majority of teachers to teach as they're directed to.

Yes the vast majority of teachers will. On the most part they are very good people. But that still will not stop the pedophile or homosexual teacher from putting their obvious slant on things. Meanwhile it seems the pressure has hit home on the Premier. He just might have seen the light. OK little ones back to learning how to ride that bike, your times tables and have sweet dreams.

[ToadBrother]

Yes the vast majority of teachers will. On the most part they are very good people. But that still will not stop the pedophile or homosexual teacher from putting their obvious slant on things.

I always find it telling how guys like you throw homosexual and pedophile around as if they were the same thing.

At any rate, and ignoring your obvious bias against homosexuals, generally speaking the notion of pedophile teachers is scary, regardless of the course. I mean, you'd feel better having a pedophile teaching math?

Meanwhile it seems the pressure has hit home on the Premier. He just might have seen the light. OK little ones back to learning how to ride that bike, your times tables and have sweet dreams.

Because, of course, ignorance is always a victory. Because ignorant kids won't have sex, right?

[lukin]

wow you have some real serious issues with sex, you need help not your kids...

ya lets look at the UK which in 2008 was looking at switching to a Netherlands model that starts in the first grade...the netherlands the average age for loss of virginity is 17.7 where as UK is 16, Canada & USA is 17 the world average is 16.3...

teenage birth rate per thousand, Canada 13.7, UK 26.1, USA 41.9...Netherlands 5.2

and when it comes to teenage STD's Canada and the UK have a rate 8 times that found in the Netherlands...you can bury your head in the sand and educate your kids or you can prepare them and show them how to use a condom before they become active...

as someone who claims to be a teacher you really suck at education...

You or some teacher has no right to tell me when my kids need sex-ed. In the school I was at, we had more teenage pregnancies after extensive sex education than before. I don't need some stats from some liberal rag to tell me what rates are around the world. I saw firsthand the effects of sex-ed in a school. Have you had that experience? Research will prove only what the researcher wants to be proved, or what they are paid to prove. I learned a long time ago that statistics are always skewed. Maybe someday you'll realize that, instead of believing everything you read.

Edited April 22, 2010 by lukin

[ToadBrother]

You or some teacher has no right to tell me when my kids need sex-ed. In the school I was at, we had more teenage pregnancies after extensive sex education than before. I don't need some stats from some liberal rag to tell me what rates are around the world. I saw firsthand the effects of sex-ed in a school. Have you had that experience? Research will prove only what the researcher wants to be proved, or what they are paid to prove. I learned a long ago that statistics are always skewed. Maybe someday you'll realize that, instead of beleiving everything you read.

You are aware that anecdotal evidence is pretty much useless. If you have some actual studies you would like to cite, I'd be all ears, but your idea that you can debunk any claim by the above is without merit. One thing they seemed not to teach you in school was critical thinking, and another topic that you seem clearly inadequate in is in formulating a legitimate argument.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Problem: An increase in sexual education leads to an increase in STD's and unwanted pregnancies.

Solution: A further increase in sex ed is necessary.

It's the scientific mind at work.

Your premise is faulty. Like I said contracaption and safe sex is discretionary, so how many schools in the UK actually teach it? If it's a high percent than you've got something if not than your completely wrong. If you had a country where teaching contraception and safe sex was mandatory and STD's and unwanted pregnancies were high then you would have something. As is I guarentee you'll find the opposite.

You or some teacher has no right to tell me when my kids need sex-ed. In the school I was at, we had more teenage pregnancies after extensive sex education than before. I don't need some stats from some liberal rag to tell me what rates are around the world. I saw firsthand the effects of sex-ed in a school. Have you had that experience? Research will prove only what the researcher wants to be proved, or what they are paid to prove. I learned a long ago that statistics are always skewed. Maybe someday you'll realize that, instead of beleiving everything you read.

Crappy anecdote FTW. Oh wait anecdotes are useless.

Edited April 22, 2010 by TrueMetis

[Michael Hardner]

You or some teacher has no right to tell me when my kids need sex-ed.

That's funny. You're arguing whether it's their right - but it's their job. They're supposed to teach those things.

[Michael Hardner]

Maybe someday you'll realize that, instead of beleiving everything you read.

I suspect your first-hand observations are wrong. Most are. Spellcheck too, ok ?

[Handsome Rob]

Personal thoughts here:

People sell kids short by a country mile. A good friend of mine once told me, "I'd like to own guns, but I won't, because I know, regardless of how secure a storage system I buy, my kids will find a way in, even if I can't break in myself." One of the brightest guys I know.

It's like there's some sort of line one crosses, when turning 25, they forget every aspect of the last 25 years. When I was 12, we were having sex. We knew exactly what AIDS & other STD's were, we knew what teen pregnancy was, we knew exactlywhat we were doing stealing beer out of people's garages, and what the consequences were.

Now with the way the internet is, and facebook, etc, I strongly believe that things have progressed even more in this direction. I attended 15 minutes of a single sex ed class, and never went back to any others, such a waste of time it was.

It amazes me, in debates such as this, that nobody considers what sort of reception will be had. The curriculum is written to an agenda, not to a reality. It's almost like nobody wants to get involved.

It's a personal opinion, not trying to sell it, but I will say that it's no surprise that public school enrollment is plummeting provincially where I live, and homeschooling and private are skyrocketing. I would be in a state of shock if that wasn't the case across the nation.

[lukin]

You are aware that anecdotal evidence is pretty much useless. If you have some actual studies you would like to cite, I'd be all ears, but your idea that you can debunk any claim by the above is without merit. One thing they seemed not to teach you in school was critical thinking, and another topic that you seem clearly inadequate in is in formulating a legitimate argument.

I witnessed it first hand. More sex ed, more teen pregnancies. What have you witnessed?

[Wild Bill]

You are aware that anecdotal evidence is pretty much useless. If you have some actual studies you would like to cite, I'd be all ears, but your idea that you can debunk any claim by the above is without merit. One thing they seemed not to teach you in school was critical thinking, and another topic that you seem clearly inadequate in is in formulating a legitimate argument.

"...anecdotal evidence is pretty much useless" Not always, TB. I'll agree that most of the time it is, because it tends to come from people who don't seem to be the most scientific in their methods.

Still, there's something to be said for experience. Someone has a direct experience with a teacher promoting his own views on politics to the children in his class. He then brings it up to the school principal. The principal often dismisses the report as "anecdotal", because it comes from one and only one person.

Several parents can complain and ALL of them can be dismissed in the same manner! At what point does the number of anecdotal reports begin to command some credibility?

The problem is that it's not really a numbers game at all if you want to truly prove something by the scientific method. One report from a parent can be biased by the parent's own views. The parent may have misinterpreted what the teacher had said. Several parental reports would tend to give some validity but they could ALL be products of misinterpretation. Perhaps all the parents came from the same evangelical church.

However, what we witness for ourselves we believe to be true. That parent has his or her own opinion of their child's credibility in reporting what their teacher may have done or said. That opinion may be higher than that of a principal who has a vested interest in dismissing the complaint. Yes, the report may be anecdotal but to the parent the idea is infuriating!

If the parent has any sense of responsibility at all, he cannot and should not accept his complaint as being merely anecdotal. It's his child and he is primarily responsible for their moral and ethical development. Teachers and principals come a distant second.

How can you protect against parental over-reactions? I don't really know, TB. How can you protect against teachers that won't "man up" and admit they were out of line?

Sometimes you have a "preponderance of evidence", as with all the zillions of reports of UFOs. Obviously, the vast majority are anecdotal but does the sheer number mean that a few must be valid? My head says no but my gut says differently.

Likely you saw the movie "Contact" and appreciate how Jodie Foster's character was placed in the situation of having her direct experience questioned when she appeared to have no proof.

Like you, I tend to be more skeptical and "scientific" in my thinking. I just feel a bit uncomfortable with the word "anecdotal" being used too easily and often as an alibi or an excuse.