Who do you want the next president to be?

[punked]

So then, in your eyes, someone can be a racist simply because they once used an incorrect number in a speech?

No because you instead of looking at a pattern are taking it apart piece by piece. If someone says 95% of black men are criminals is that racist? Well yeah it has racial undertone maybe I can move past that. Then they say we shouldn't treat 13 year olds like 23 year olds because they are kids, unless they are black then they are scary. Then then say “we are constantly told that it is evil to be afraid of black men, it is hardly irrational. Black men commit murders, rapes, robberies, muggings and burglaries all out of proportion to their numbers." and they say “If you have ever been robbed by a black teen-aged male, you know how unbelievably fleet-footed they can be.”. We SEE A PATTERN! It isn't one thing it is a number of things.

[Bonam]

I don't believe I've ever heard any racist use the word "only" in their rants about Blacks. Have you?

No. I haven't heard any racists ranting about blacks in general. Doesn't happen much around here. But I'm sure if I did hear a real racist ranting about blacks or whoever else that it would sound a lot different than what Ron Paul was saying. It would sound more like the remarks I hear Arabs shouting about Jews at IAW events...

Anyway, you really think he'd still be in politics if he had made seriously racist remarks? He would have been hung out to dry decades ago.

Edited April 18, 2010 by Bonam

[punked]

No. I haven't heard any racists ranting about blacks in general. Doesn't happen much around here. But I'm sure if I did hear a real racist ranting about blacks or whoever else that it would sound a lot different than what Ron Paul was saying. It would sound more like the remarks I hear Arabs shouting about Jews at IAW events...

Anyway, you really think he'd still be in politics if he had made seriously racist remarks? He would have been hung out to dry decades ago.

He lives in one of the most conservative districts in the country, the Democrats can't even find people to run in it. You think racist remarks would not have served him well in these areas?

[Guest American Woman]

No. I haven't heard any racists ranting about blacks in general. Doesn't happen much around here.

It's never happened where I live, nor have a lot of other things, but since I'm educated and don't live in a bubble surrounding my city, I've heard such rants in the course of my education, watching the news, reading the news, watching youtube, etc.

But I'm sure if I did hear a real racist ranting about blacks or whoever else that it would sound a lot different than what Ron Paul was saying.

Just to clarify, racist remarks don't always come in the form of a "rant" by any means. I shouldn't have used that word, but I wanted to emphasize my point.

It would sound more like the remarks I hear Arabs shouting about Jews at IAW events...

So were they saying "only" Jews?

Anyway, you really think he'd still be in politics if he had made seriously racist remarks? He would have been hung out to dry decades ago.

He is actually having to answer to a few things these days. Some of this is just coming out, like the racist remarks made in the newsletter in his name. He says he knew nothing about it, but it was in his name.

Ron Paul will never be president.

[Bonam]

He lives in one of the most conservative districts in the country, the Democrats can't even find people to run in it. You think racist remarks would not have served him well in these areas?

No I think if he made seriously racist remarks he would have been caught by the thought police and at the very least his political career would have been over. How many KKKers do you see in the US congress?

[Bonam]

So were they saying "only" Jews?

No, but they were showing Jews injecting children with AIDS, among other things. Sorry but it's a completely different kind of statement that is being made. Talking about crime statistics and policies is completely different from invoking blood libel.

Ron Paul will never be president.

Of course not, I'm obviously not disputing that.

[Guest American Woman]

No I think if he made seriously racist remarks he would have been caught by the thought police and at the very least his political career would have been over. How many KKKers do you see in the US congress?

Do you think you have to be a member of the KKK in order to be racist? There are all different degrees of racism, and just because one isn't a member of the KKK doesn't absolve them of racism.

[Guest American Woman]

Talking about crime statistics and policies is completely different from invoking blood libel.

So if someone said "blacks who commit murder should be given the death sentence," would you think that was racist? After all, they didn't say "only," and it is "talking about policies."

[Bonam]

Do you think you have to be a member of the KKK in order to be racist? There are all different degrees of racism, and just because one isn't a member of the KKK doesn't absolve them of racism.

You are being purposefully dense. My point is simple. In the modern day US, any serious racism towards blacks on the part of a politician would be extremely adverse to their career. The fact that Ron Paul is still a congressman shows that none of his remarks (that have so far been made public) were all that racist.

Punked was making the point that being racist would actually benefit one's political career if one comes from a "conservative" area, and I hold that assertion to be ridiculous.

Definitely he has not been politically correct, but that is a far cry from being a real racist.

[punked]

No I think if he made seriously racist remarks he would have been caught by the thought police and at the very least his political career would have been over. How many KKKers do you see in the US congress?

That is a serious racist remark. Now if he owned up to it and apologized or something that might be one thing Ron Paul has never done this. Remember Robert Bryd was one time a KKK member, but that wasn't in 1992 and he has tried his damnedest to make up for it.

[punked]

Lee Atwater ran many campaigns knowing playing up the race card in a subtle way would win him elections.

" You start out in 1954 by saying, "Nigger, nigger, nigger." By 1968 you can't say "nigger"—that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me—because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "Nigger, nigger."

[Bonam]

So if someone said "blacks who commit murder should be given the death sentence," would you think that was racist? After all, they didn't say "only," and it is "talking about policies."

Depends on the context, I would say that this kind of statement could be made without the speaker necessarily being a racist. If the speaker said "blacks who commit murder should be given the death sentence but whites should get life in prison instead" that would obviously be racist. If the person was talking about a case where a black had committed some horrible crimes and concluded by stating that criminals such as this black should be put to death that would not necessarily be racist.

[Bonam]

Lee Atwater ran many campaigns knowing playing up the race card in a subtle way would win him elections.

" You start out in 1954 by saying, "Nigger, nigger, nigger." By 1968 you can't say "nigger"—that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like forced busing, states' rights and all that stuff. You're getting so abstract now [that] you're talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you're talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is [that] blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I'm not saying that. But I'm saying that if it is getting that abstract, and that coded, that we are doing away with the racial problem one way or the other. You follow me—because obviously sitting around saying, "We want to cut this," is much more abstract than even the busing thing, and a hell of a lot more abstract than "Nigger, nigger."

That's a racist statement according to you? It seems like the opposite to me. The quote is illustrating the progress being made in fighting racism.

[punked]

That's a racist statement according to you? It seems like the opposite to me. The quote is illustrating the progress being made in fighting racism.

The man who said was referring to this.

He later on his death bed call Dukakis to apologize. Just because racism has become something we don't talk about doesn't mean it is getting better. It might very well mean it is just less overt.

[Guest American Woman]

You are being purposefully dense.

I'm not being dense at all. In light of your defense of Paul, because he didn't say "only" when he referred to Blacks, and since you asked how many members of Congress are members of the KKK as if that would mean no members of Congress are racist since they aren't members, I seriously wondered if you thought not being a member of the KKK meant no members of Congress could possibly be racist. My point/question was a legitimate response to your post.

My point is simple. In the modern day US, any serious racism towards blacks on the part of a politician would be extremely adverse to their career. The fact that Ron Paul is still a congressman shows that none of his remarks (that have so far been made public) were all that racist.

They weren't "all that racist?" So were they just a little racist, then? If it's not "serious racism," it's not racism?

Definitely he has not been politically correct, but that is a far cry from being a real racist.

He's gone beyond not being politically correct. When one singles out one race the way he has, it's beyond PC.

Depends on the context, I would say that this kind of statement could be made without the speaker necessarily being a racist. If the speaker said "blacks who commit murder should be given the death sentence but whites should get life in prison instead" that would obviously be racist. If the person was talking about a case where a black had committed some horrible crimes and concluded by stating that criminals such as this black should be put to death that would not necessarily be racist.

I didn't say the statement was in response to a "horrible crime," and the speaker was reacting emotionally, nor did I say the person said "Blacks such as this .....;" I made a very general statement. I asked you if someone said "Blacks who commit murder should be given the death sentence," would that be racist? They didn't say "only," but they clearly said "Blacks" and no one else. Quite frankly, your "they didn't say 'only'" line of defense is ludicrous.

Edited April 18, 2010 by American Woman

[Bonam]

Quite frankly, your "they didn't say 'only'" line of defense is ludicrous.

It's not meant as a general "line of defense" applicable to every situation. It was specific to that statement attributed to Ron Paul. If that statement had said only blacks, it would have seemed rather racist, but having not said that, it did not seem particularly racist to me. Other statements, depending on context, may be racist without specific exclusivity.

[Guest American Woman]

It's not meant as a general "line of defense" applicable to every situation. It was specific to that statement attributed to Ron Paul. If that statement had said only blacks, it would have seemed rather racist, but having not said that, it did not seem particularly racist to me. Other statements, depending on context, may be racist without specific exclusivity.

So it's not a general line of defense; only when you want it to be. Then it's a perfectly acceptable line of defense. Got'cha.

[maple_leafs182]

There is a chance Ron Paul will be president, if he runs that is.

Ron Paul more or less started the Tea Party movement. The tea parties aren't going away, and they are just getting bigger.

I'm sure if Ron Paul ran he would get the tea party vote.

I don't know why people don't like Ron Paul, he predicted the financial collapse, he actually understands the economy and how it works. He knows the dollar and America will collapse soon, he is warning us but he is always being marginalized.

It is like society doesn't like rational thinkers, society loves all the drama we create.

[punked]

There is a chance Ron Paul will be president, if he runs that is.

Ron Paul more or less started the Tea Party movement. The tea parties aren't going away, and they are just getting bigger.

I'm sure if Ron Paul ran he would get the tea party vote.

I don't know why people don't like Ron Paul, he predicted the financial collapse, he actually understands the economy and how it works. He knows the dollar and America will collapse soon, he is warning us but he is always being marginalized.

It is like society doesn't like rational thinkers, society loves all the drama we create.

It might be because he wants to link the dollar to the gold standard something which prolonged the depression and would tie Americas economy to a rock. It might have something to do with that. Oh that and he hates the Civil rights act and wants to live his life by a piece of paper written 300 years ago.

As for Shadies Mittens he was squirming today. You know because he is the flippiest of Flip floppers.

Newsweek: Back in February 2007, you said you hoped the Massachusetts plan would "become a model for the nation." Would you agree that it has?

Mitt: I don't ... You're going to have to get that quote. That's not exactly accurate, I don't believe.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/04/see_mitt_squirm.php?ref=fpblg

The quote is 100% accurate BTW.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/236632/page/2

[ToadBrother]

So then, in your eyes, someone can be a racist simply because they once used an incorrect number in a speech?

Give me a break. 95% is so outrageously out to lunch that it is clearly hyperbole, and clearly suggest a racist mindset. On top of all the truly demented things he says, it doesn't surprise. He and his supporters are a pack of nuts.

[maple_leafs182]

If you’d bother to do a little research, you’d find out that Ron Paul DIDN’T write those words, but they appeared in his newsletter. he says it was a mistake and he takes full responsibility for it. Plus, he has written articles which appear on his congressional website OPPOSING racism.

The entire “Ron Paul is racist” bit was discredited a couple days ago. If you’re going to waste time, don’t do it spreading bogus information.

Says one source, “Ron Paul didn’t know about those comments, or know they were written under his name until much later when they were brought to his attention. There were several issues that went out with comments that he would not ordinarily make. He was angry when he saw them.”

Ron Paul has said that he did not write the comments in question, but, nonetheless, has taken “moral” responsibility for them.

Paul stood his ground. He said only that his remarks about Barbara Jordan related to her stands on affirmative action and that his written comments about blacks were in the context of ‘current events and statistical reports of the time.

There you have it, he is not a racist.

And for a pack of nuts, what do you expect, we live in some crazy times.

It might be because he wants to link the dollar to the gold standard something which prolonged the depression and would tie Americas economy to a rock. It might have something to do with that. Oh that and he hates the Civil rights act and wants to live his life by a piece of paper written 300 years ago.

Know what prolonged the great depression, government intervention, know what will prolong this recession, government intervention. The markets are self correcting if you let them, the American government won't let them correct, their economy is 70% Dependant on consumer spending, that can't last forever and the market tried correcting that imbalance but the bailouts and stimulus stopped the correction. They are running off a bubble economy which will make the economy worse once it bursts.

Ron Paul knows this, he is warning us right now, he has been warning us for years.

Know what will kill the american dollar, the Fed printing so much money, why are they able to print all this money, because the dollar is backed by nothing, no gold, so they can just continue to print and inflate the currency. The Canadian dollar is at par with the American dollar for a reason. The American dollar will continue to fall.

Ron Paul says stuff like, hey, starting wars across the sea will just make more people angry at us and make us less safer in the end. What a nut case that Ron Paul is, looking into what motivates terrorists instead of listening to government propaganda.

[punked]

There you have it, he is not a racist.

And for a pack of nuts, what do you expect, we live in some crazy times.

Know what prolonged the great depression, government intervention, know what will prolong this recession, government intervention. The markets are self correcting if you let them, the American government won't let them correct, their economy is 70% Dependant on consumer spending, that can't last forever and the market tried correcting that imbalance but the bailouts and stimulus stopped the correction. They are running off a bubble economy which will make the economy worse once it bursts.

Ron Paul knows this, he is warning us right now, he has been warning us for years.

Know what will kill the american dollar, the Fed printing so much money, why are they able to print all this money, because the dollar is backed by nothing, no gold, so they can just continue to print and inflate the currency. The Canadian dollar is at par with the American dollar for a reason. The American dollar will continue to fall.

Ron Paul says stuff like, hey, starting wars across the sea will just make more people angry at us and make us less safer in the end. What a nut case that Ron Paul is, looking into what motivates terrorists instead of listening to government propaganda.

What is Ron Paul's thoughts on the Civil Rights act again? Yah guy is a Racist.

As for your second point. You or Ron Paul don't get to make up history. Fact is Ron Paul's ideas are terrible for everyone in America.

[Shady]

Not only that but the budget which cut Medicare, and SS wasn't even balanced because he cut corporate taxes to 0 and the top income bracket by 10%.

Completely false. His budget eliminated the deficit and paid off the debt. Not only that, but you have absolutely no clue about how Medicare and Social Security are funded. Social Security is funded only through payroll taxes. And in its current form, Social Security is unsustainable. In fact, this year marked the first year it pays out more than it takes in. Paul Ryan proposed indexing Social Security to inflation, instead of wages, and raising the retirement age for people under 55 to more accurately reflect today's life expenctancy. Corporate taxes and income taxes have nothing to do with funding it Social Security you dolt.

The guy got rid of the biggest expenses in the budget which make up half of it and couldn't even balance the books.

Not true. His budget eliminates the deficit and pays off the debt. You lefties just don't like how he does it. Which is perfectly fine. But lets see your plan to do the same. Oh wait, there is no plan to do the same. In fact Obama's plan will double the current national debt, and increase the deficit. Wow, great plan there punked!

So you would have a ticket with a guy who raised taxes on Mass

Not true. Again, another punked lie. He closed tax loopholes. As a big lefty, you should be applauding him punked! Making sure people pay their fair share, right?

on a ticket with a guy who hates programs and wants to make taxes 0.

Complete lie again. I'm not sure how actually reforming programs so that they're sustainable is "hating programs." Just more lies and hyperbole from you. He probably hates kittens and puppies to, right punked? And no, he's doesn't want to make all taxes 0. Another punked lie and distortion. How about spreading some ideas and plans instead of venomous untruths?

Instead of not liking how Paul Ryan elminates the deficit, and pays off the debt, trying putting forth a different plan that does the same. Again, how about you cite the Obama plan. Surely it does something similar, but in a way you agree with, right? Oh wait. It doesn't. In fact, it adds more debt than all the previous President combined.

[Shady]

Bonam,

You don't quite understand yet. If you're not a supporter of Obama, and all of his radical policies, you're obviously a racist. It's the same tired old cliche they've been pushing since his inauguration. It's what people who have no defense, and no ideas do.

[maple_leafs182]

ya, your right, they should just continue heading in the direction they are going in now.

It's benefiting a lot of Americans.

Except for the ones who lost their homes, their jobs, the ones struggling to pay bills or the ones who are now living on the streets. It's not working out to well for them.

If they continue to go on the path they are going now, they will collapse.

Their Government can't continue to operate off loans forever. Eventually people will stop loaning to them.

The country is bankrupt and so are its citizens.

The markets are only up because of the stimulus and bailouts.

The parties over in America.

I don't think anything they do now ill save their country, unless something like a war happens.

Truthfully, I don't care what anyone thinks of Ron Paul or me.

That is irrelevant.

When America falls, it will be felt everywhere. Global depression.

You may call me crazy but it's already started, look at what is happening everywhere, countries are going bankrupt.