Slam The Doors On Immigration

[bush_cheney2004]

I use that list for those whose postings contribute no value whatever, not even amusement, and whose positions, regardless of how I disagree with them, are so wretchedly, poorly put that they require no rebuttal from me.

...well, it's not all about you or any response you may add.

I have considered putting you on that short list a number of times.

Oh no...please don't put me on your Ignore User list....you are the only federal employee we have to laugh at.

Edited April 10, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[Moonlight Graham]

It's not hard to convince them...or many others.

Hence 305,000,000 vs. 35,000,000.

Not fair, you brought half that # over as slaves.

[bush_cheney2004]

Not fair, you brought half that # over as slaves.

...and they keep on coming. Better to use your weather excuse.

[jbg]

This is quite a politically incorrect Indo-Canadian outlook. This person pulls no punches... wow

http://www.indocanadaoutlook.com/0410_slam_the_doors_on_immigration.html

Quite interesting.

Of course the U.S. has always drawn the cream of the cream of immigrants. Our lack of a social safety network though, not what this column cites, is more important. Immigrants know if they have to come to this country it's "sink or swim".

[dizzy]

Quite interesting.

Of course the U.S. has always drawn the cream of the cream of immigrants. Our lack of a social safety network though, not what this column cites, is more important. Immigrants know if they have to come to this country it's "sink or swim".

You should let your compatriots in california and texas know. They seem to think that they have a problem with mexican freeloaders.

[dizzy]

the forum has a wonderful feature for buffoons, trolls, racists and banjo pickers..."Manage Ignored Users", since I've compiled my list of 8 or 9 the forum has become a much more friendly and reasonable place... ...

I have more fun poking the troll. Especially because he's always around to respond in the moment.

[Moonlight Graham]

...and they keep on coming. Better to use your weather excuse.

Its not like Americans don't come to live in Canada. 700,000 live in Canada. A nice chunk of our total pop. wahahahahaaaaaaaa!!!

[Born Free]

It's not hard to convince them...or many others.

Hence 305,000,000 vs. 35,000,000.

Sí. Amo América y aman mis drogas.

[ToadBrother]

Quite interesting.

Of course the U.S. has always drawn the cream of the cream of immigrants. Our lack of a social safety network though, not what this column cites, is more important. Immigrants know if they have to come to this country it's "sink or swim".

And if you're a Mexican, even if you swim, they'll throw you out.

[bush_cheney2004]

And if you're a Mexican, even if you swim, they'll throw you out.

...or a Canadian as well. Adieu!

[jbg]

And if you're a Mexican, even if you swim, they'll throw you out.

I happen to be for far freer immigration to my country, as long as it's on a "sink or swim" basis. And I do not mean swimming the Rio Grande or the Florida Straits.

[justme]

Wow. Kind of speechless.

With the looming retirement of the baby boomers, somebody has to pay the compounding medical costs and social services though. Who will that be, we as Canadians certainly aren't providing them.

I think they really ought to encourage having Children. Further programs to cut taxes for child bearing families, and eliminate them for single mothers.

Family, education and individual responsibility. Gee, kinda sounds like a return to conservative values eh?

The liberal social experiment is as much a mess as the party itself.

[justme]

yup...there's nothing like living in poverty stricken countries to reinforce how important education is, immigrants from India and China do exceed "regular" Canadians in education as do their Canadian born children...Canadians in general are very spoiled and need to work very little to have a comfortable life with minimal education, most Canadians have no idea how hard or long people must work in third world countries just to put food on the table...

If they're so superior, why are their countries of origin still third world countries while Canada is a first world country? Enquiring minds want to know. Wait, let me guess, it's our fault right?

[Bonam]

If they're so superior, why are their countries of origin still third world countries while Canada is a first world country? Enquiring minds want to know. Wait, let me guess, it's our fault right?

Of course. Everything is whitey's fault.

[justme]

I think the best description of paying for an aging population with immigration I heard was from an Australian who called it a ponzi scheme. He argued that eventually they'll age too, and as the population increases you'll face an even bigger problem. Given that Canada gives points for age to people up to 53 years of age, it probably won't take that long.

Edited April 11, 2010 by justme

[justme]

...and they keep on coming. Better to use your weather excuse.

24,000 Canadians vs. how many millions of Mexicans? I guess it's too damn hot in Mexico.

[bush_cheney2004]

24,000 Canadians vs. how many millions of Mexicans? I guess it's too damn hot in Mexico.

What's wrong with Mexicans? Don't Canadians go to Mexico to get murdered and robbed in exchange for warmer weather?

[Bonam]

What's wrong with Mexicans? Don't Canadians go to Mexico to get murdered and robbed in exchange for warmer weather?

Not this Canadian.

[dizzy]

I offered data that suggests the following:

1. most immigrants are of a prime working age

2. immigrants tend to be better educated than the average resident canadian

3. immigrants are big contributors to our advanced knowledge pool (PhD or other post grads, sciences, etc)

4. immigrants who can't work in their field still contribute by working (often in lower paying jobs)

Can those arguing a sky is falling attitude toward immigration answer a couple of questions with data to support:

1. by how much are we financially burdened by older immigrants? Does this number consider their soft participation in the economy (e.g. providing daycare for their grandkids so that their children can work)?

2. What is the net cost of immigration to canada? How much money are we losing to lazy, underperforming immigrants who can't speak english or french and jump into the dole lines as soon as they jump off the boat?

[Martin Chriton]

I offered data that suggests the following:

1. most immigrants are of a prime working age

2. immigrants tend to be better educated than the average resident canadian

3. immigrants are big contributors to our advanced knowledge pool (PhD or other post grads, sciences, etc)

4. immigrants who can't work in their field still contribute by working (often in lower paying jobs)

Can those arguing a sky is falling attitude toward immigration answer a couple of questions with data to support:

1. by how much are we financially burdened by older immigrants? Does this number consider their soft participation in the economy (e.g. providing daycare for their grandkids so that their children can work)?

2. What is the net cost of immigration to canada? How much money are we losing to lazy, underperforming immigrants who can't speak english or french and jump into the dole lines as soon as they jump off the boat?

Wow, you keep missing the point! It's not about the piece of paper that someone holds. If they can't get a job than the degree isn't worth the piece of paper it's printed on.

The way the US system works is you need a *job* acceptance and a sponsoring employer to let you in the country. In Canada they can get in without being accepted for a job! And shock, surprise, a lot end up not getting jobs!

I'm a Canadian working in Silicon Valley under the H1-B program. In my company we interview tons from India for potential jobs. Only a tiny fraction that have degrees ever get offers. Only the very best get brought over and when they're brought over they have a job waiting for them. The degree means very little to us, everyone can get a university degree. Experience and how well they do answering the interview question is much much more important.

As someone that has lived in both countries and seen the immigration systems the US one is by far superior. I'm currently applying for a green card in the USA and it's going to take probably another 3-4 years (I've been here 3-4 years already), and I have a high paying 6-figure salary and a stable job.

Edited April 12, 2010 by Martin Chriton

[conservicon]

If they're so superior, why are their countries of origin still third world countries while Canada is a first world country? Enquiring minds want to know. Wait, let me guess, it's our fault right?

Two possibilities here: either you know the answer and you're being disingenuous.. or you dont know and are thus ignorant.

INDIA is third-world because they have 160 million Muslims whose incomes, education and status rank way beneath the majority Hindus.

There are 160 million Muslims because starting in 700 AD, the Islamic MidEast launched a massive invasion and extermination campaign .. where they demplished Hindu civilization and slaughtered an estimated 80 million Hindus.

You should know that before Islam, Hindu India's GNP and leve of advacement far exceeded Europe. At that time, we were third world while they were first world.

OUR ancestors, Europeans, lived further away from the toxic Sandy Arabia (where the sh*thole ideology originated), so we escaped the holocaust which nearly wiped out Hindu civilization.

Hence we get to beat our chests smugly and assert our superior first world status. All because of a twist of geography.... the fact that Muslim invaders were so far away that they were exhausted and easily defeated by Charles Martel at Tours. ALso at the gates of Vienna.

People who know nothing about the history of nations (or their own history for that matter) .. should not even be allowed to opine about issues like ...duuuhhhh.. 'why is india third world, while canada is first world'.

But we have democracy... so everyone is allowed to have an opinion... so opinions are as common as the a^^holes who spout them.

DOnt worry tho: we Canadians have stupid LIberals, who have allowed those very same Muslims to immigrate here..so we shall soon be third world ..our smug chest-thumping days are coming to an end .. just as Hindu chest thumpers were silnced after 700 AD.

[dizzy]

Wow, you keep missing the point! It's not about the piece of paper that someone holds. If they can't get a job than the degree isn't worth the piece of paper it's printed on.

The way the US system works is you need a *job* acceptance and a sponsoring employer to let you in the country. In Canada they can get in without being accepted for a job! And shock, surprise, a lot end up not getting jobs!

I'm a Canadian working in Silicon Valley under the H1-B program. In my company we interview tons from India for potential jobs. Only a tiny fraction that have degrees ever get offers. Only the very best get brought over and when they're brought over they have a job waiting for them. The degree means very little to us, everyone can get a university degree. Experience and how well they do answering the interview question is much much more important.

As someone that has lived in both countries and seen the immigration systems the US one is by far superior. I'm currently applying for a green card in the USA and it's going to take probably another 3-4 years (I've been here 3-4 years already), and I have a high paying 6-figure salary and a stable job.

I may not be getting your point but I'm not confused about mine.

An H1-B is not immigration. There are student and work visa and foreign migrant worker programs here, as well. We are talking immigration in this thread.

Over half of canada's immigrants come in through one of the economic classes. They largely enter with in-demand skills. That some are not able to practice is not a function of their degrees being worthless but with provincial regulating bodies who want to limit competition by excluding foreign-earned credentials. This is why the federal government is working with the provinces to address this issue.

Where the US is clearly succeeding is on the front of recognizing these credentials. Their free market spirit wins over oligarchical approach practiced by some professional bodies here. But if you think this or your silicon valley experience represents the whole story on US immigration, well this line in particular...

"The way the US system works is you need a *job* acceptance and a sponsoring employer to let you in the country."

... suggests that you are basing your whole understanding of US immigration on your personal experience.

Keeping in mind Canada's continuing high-ranking economic performance, I think what needs to happen here is a matter of fine tuning, not radical change.

[Martin Chriton]

"The way the US system works is you need a *job* acceptance and a sponsoring employer to let you in the country."

... suggests that you are basing your whole understanding of US immigration on your personal experience.

True, I'm basing what I know of US immigration and Canadian immigration based on my personal experience. From what I've seen most folks in the US go through H1-B and then through the greencard process. To get a greencard in most cases you need a sponsoring employer. You can also get a greencard by marrying a citizen of the US but those are probably a minority.

I don't have any stats to compare employer sponsors immigration in US vs. Canadian but my guess is the US is a lot higher. If someone has time to dig up that information it would be interesting to see it.

[dizzy]

True, I'm basing what I know of US immigration and Canadian immigration based on my personal experience. From what I've seen most folks in the US go through H1-B and then through the greencard process. To get a greencard in most cases you need a sponsoring employer. You can also get a greencard by marrying a citizen of the US but those are probably a minority.

I don't have any stats to compare employer sponsors immigration in US vs. Canadian but my guess is the US is a lot higher. If someone has time to dig up that information it would be interesting to see it.

The US has about 65 000 H1-B visa participants (new and recurring combined) vs. 900 000 new immigrants/yr. Well more than half of US immigrants come from latin american countries, about 25% from mexico alone. Most of them do not have post-secondary education and typically work in lower paying trade and service sectors. But they do work. Hard.

In Canada there is not an H1-B specific class. All foreign worker visas amount to about

150 000/yr. vs. immigration at about 250 000. About half of the immigrants to Canada come from Asian countries. About 56% of total immigrants come with a post secondary education (mainly university and post-grad).

Here's a really good outline of immigrants (not foreign temporary workers)by work intention:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/statistics/facts2008/permanent/22.asp

Note: only about 7000 are retirees. And many of them participate in the soft economy by taking care of their grandchildren and helping to care for the home, allowing their children to provide labour to the economy at a lower wage than with which they could survive were they required to pay for childcare.

Like JBG said earlier, I have no problem with immigrants coming to canada if they are ready to work their asses off. I just happen to think that the vast majority do, and the data supports my position. For the very few older people that come in the care of their working children I say, who cares? Keeping families intact is an honourable thing and I'm happy to live in a country that facilitates it.

[dizzy]

Two possibilities here: either you know the answer and you're being disingenuous.. or you dont know and are thus ignorant.

INDIA is third-world because they have 160 million Muslims whose incomes, education and status rank way beneath the majority Hindus.

There are 160 million Muslims because starting in 700 AD, the Islamic MidEast launched a massive invasion and extermination campaign .. where they demplished Hindu civilization and slaughtered an estimated 80 million Hindus.

You should know that before Islam, Hindu India's GNP and leve of advacement far exceeded Europe. At that time, we were third world while they were first world.

OUR ancestors, Europeans, lived further away from the toxic Sandy Arabia (where the sh*thole ideology originated), so we escaped the holocaust which nearly wiped out Hindu civilization.

Hence we get to beat our chests smugly and assert our superior first world status. All because of a twist of geography.... the fact that Muslim invaders were so far away that they were exhausted and easily defeated by Charles Martel at Tours. ALso at the gates of Vienna.

People who know nothing about the history of nations (or their own history for that matter) .. should not even be allowed to opine about issues like ...duuuhhhh.. 'why is india third world, while canada is first world'.

But we have democracy... so everyone is allowed to have an opinion... so opinions are as common as the a^^holes who spout them.

DOnt worry tho: we Canadians have stupid LIberals, who have allowed those very same Muslims to immigrate here..so we shall soon be third world ..our smug chest-thumping days are coming to an end .. just as Hindu chest thumpers were silnced after 700 AD.

So, your argument is that, since the 8th century, the evolutionary shift of power around the globe has basically been caused by rampaging muslims?

Edited April 13, 2010 by dizzy