Speaking of Quagmires

[M.Dancer]

Canada ends peacekeeping mission in Bosnia after nearly two-decade deployment under NATO

By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS (CP) – 1 day ago

Canada has completed its nearly two-decade peacekeeping mission in Bosnia, where around 40,000 Canadian troops have served.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5goOp73I2rq8w9nNZjzWONDan1Xfg

It would probably please Robert Fowler to hear that Canadian soldiers may go from fighting in Afghanistan to a more “traditional” UN peacekeeping mission in Africa after 2011. You remember the more “traditional” peacekeeping missions, don’t you? Watching scores of people get slaughtered while standing behind United Nations barricades with strict rules of engagement.

But then again, deploying our military to where it can be least effective in curtailing human rights abuses seems to be what pleases Canada’s “troops out” crowd the most. Canada’s military just finished a 19-year deployment in Bosnia-Herzegovina with little fanfare back here at home. Indeed, you would be hard pressed to find Canadians who actually knew that Canada was involved in a UN/NATO mission in Bosnia at all.

http://network.nationalpost.com/NP/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2010/03/30/adrian-macnair-back-to-the-good-old-days-of-peacekeeping-failures.aspx

The thing about traditional peacekeeping, and why it won't work today is traditional peacekeeping requires the belligerents to want peace. The role of the Peacekeeper is to monitor and ensure that the withdrawing forces are not mistaken for agressive redeployments. Once completed the role of the Peacekeeping for is to monitor the ceasefire line, to report and to confront breaches in the ceasefire agreement with the goal being to reduce tension.

The current conflicts do not meet those requirements, peacekeeping is fundamentally different from peace enforcement.

[Michael Hardner]

The thing about traditional peacekeeping, and why it won't work today is traditional peacekeeping requires the belligerents to want peace.

Interesting articles and links... but "why it won't work today" where ? It will work some places, but I presume you're saying not in Afghanistan ?

[eyeball]

...peacekeeping is fundamentally different from peace enforcement.

And just as fundamentally useless.

[Born Free]

And just as fundamentally useless.

Please explain.

[M.Dancer]

Interesting articles and links... but "why it won't work today" where ? It will work some places, but I presume you're saying not in Afghanistan ?

There isn't a peacekeeping role in Afghanistan.

Where won't it work?

Somalia

Ethiopia

Sudan

Congo

Yemen

The thing you have to remember, in every traditional peacekeeping mission, the mission was preceded by an agreement between the belligerents. They wanted a way to disengage, which isn't easy without an overseer. Someone has to say to the Y side that at 4:00 PM tomorrow, X side's armour will move down the highway then turn away, that it is not an aggressive move...and at the same time assure X that when their armour is facing the wrong way, they will be safe.

[M.Dancer]

And just as fundamentally useless.

Of course. Because Bosnia and Croatia are fighting all out war and the Greeks and Turks in Cypruss are huddled in their shelters to avoid the artilley bombardments...

[Michael Hardner]

Of course. Because Bosnia and Croatia are fighting all out war and the Greeks and Turks in Cypruss are huddled in their shelters to avoid the artilley bombardments...

This needs a <sarcasm> tag ?

[M.Dancer]

This needs a <sarcasm> tag ?

Probably for eyeball and the other burnouts.

[eyeball]

Please explain.

Whack a mole I guess. I just don't see the military industries giving up their golden goose that easily. There's too much profit to be made conflict.

[Born Free]

Whack a mole I guess. I just don't see the military industries giving up their golden goose that easily. There's too much profit to be made conflict.

Morris made the point you are clearly missing re Bosnia/Cyprus. Being a skeptic is OK but willfully ignoring evidence is something else entirely...

[eyeball]

Morris made the point you are clearly missing re Bosnia/Cyprus. Being a skeptic is OK but willfully ignoring evidence is something else entirely...

I didn't miss it I just think peace in these regions has a lot more to do with people there just tiring of fighting than it does peacekeeping.

And lets face it these place are not exactly sitting on or in the way of shit-whacks of strategic resources.

[M.Dancer]

I didn't miss it I just think peace in these regions has a lot more to do with people there just tiring of fighting than it does peacekeeping.

And lets face it these place are not exactly sitting on or in the way of shit-whacks of strategic resources.

Hello Captain obvious. Yes it is true that people weary of war often prefer peace. Where Peacekeeping comes in is to facilitate that endeavour...probably to subtle for you.

If sitting on or in the way of strategic resources as you say, gets in thew way of peace, why are so many peaceful nations sitting on or in the way of strategic resources and why are so many piss poor dirt holes filled with strife?

That;s a rhetorical question by the way, I don't expect you to have an intelligent answer.

[eyeball]

Yes it is true that people weary of war often prefer peace. Where Peacekeeping comes in is to facilitate that endeavour.

And as you pointed out traditional peacekeeping usually deals with retreating armies while diplomats deal with the politicans. All the same I suspect ordinary people on the ground who are caught up in these affairs usually weary of the fight long before the rest do.

If sitting on or in the way of strategic resources as you say, gets in thew way of peace, blah blah blah?

That;s a rhetorical question by the way.

No it isn't, it's just your usual strawman bullshit.

In any case I notice the two conflicts you cite involved people and regions that were caught up in the super conflict between the ususal suspects. If there is anyone who should be charged with the job of cooling off the world's hotspots it's the arsonists who set most of them on fire in the first place.

Truth, reconciliation and reparation - that's how to make peace. Keeping it is a matter of instilling some basic ethics and morals in the super-powers. Until we figure out how to do that traditional peacekeeping will be as ultimately useless as traditional peacemaking and we'll remain stuck...in a quagmire.

[Born Free]

Until we figure out how to do that traditional peacekeeping will be as ultimately useless as traditional peacemaking and we'll remain stuck...in a quagmire.

Sorry you feel that way...

[wyly]

And just as fundamentally useless.

I disagree eyeball...outwardly it may look useless as the mission is to separate two sides who don't want to fight which sounds redundant... but it serves to lessen tension, these people don't want to fight but when they constantly have their guard up a misunderstanding can escalate into bloodshed...having the troops there lets both sides unwind and cool off knowing there won't be a surprise attack...

Edited April 5, 2010 by wyly

[M.Dancer]

In any case I notice the two conflicts you cite involved people and regions that were caught up in the super conflict between the ususal suspects.

I cited three places but I can always count on you to be wrong and no the super powers had nothing to do with ancient animosities between Serbs and croats, croats and bosnians or bosnians and serbs.

And Greece and turkey haven't been super powers in eon.

And of course, I didn't get an intelligent response from you so...I am not disappointed.

[eyeball]

I disagree eyeball...outwardly it may look useless as the mission is to separate two sides who don't want to fight which sounds redundant... but it serves to lessen tension, these people don't want to fight but when they constantly have their guard up a misunderstanding can escalate into bloodshed...having the troops there let's both sides unwind and cool off knowing there won't be a surprise attack...

Sounds good in theory and yes there are a few examples of this working in the short term but I remain skeptical. It's beyond ironic that the great powers aren't interested in fighting each other face to face don't you think?

Given the state of affairs in Ethiopia where the US and China are both working to prop up the same corrupt undemocratic regime I'd say we're in new unexplored territory now. Co-dominion seems to be the new emerging shape of what seems to constitute world order. I can't help but note the two examples where peacekeeping is being held up as a success involved regions where independence and separatist breakaway sentiments seemed to be the main bones of contention.

[eyeball]

I cited three places but I can always count on you to be wrong and no the super powers had nothing to do with ancient animosities between Serbs and croats, croats and bosnians or bosnians and serbs.

You cited Yugoslavia and Cyprus.

And Greece and turkey haven't been super powers in eon.

So what? This has nothing to do with what I said.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

It seems to me that there will always be conflict somewhere, its just human nature.

[eyeball]

...the super powers had nothing to do with ancient animosities between Serbs and croats, croats and bosnians or bosnians and serbs.

Who said they did?

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Who said they did?

Serbia and Croatia fought a religious war in my view. After all there was genocide based on religious origins.

[eyeball]

It seems to me that there will always be conflict somewhere, its just human nature.

Stoking or exploiting conflict at the national or cultural level however is more in the nature of a rogue state.

Of course you've got your rogues and then you've got your super-rogues.

[eyeball]

Serbia and Croatia fought a religious war in my view. After all there was genocide based on religious origins.

I suspect the Treaty of Versailles had a lot more to do with the modern violence that ensued.

Before World War II, major tensions arose from the first...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslav_Wars

[M.Dancer]

In any case I notice the two conflicts you cite involved people and regions that were caught up in the super conflict between the ususal suspects.

I cited three places but I can always count on you to be wrong and no the super powers had nothing to do with ancient animosities between Serbs and croats, croats and bosnians or bosnians and serbs.

And Greece and turkey haven't been super powers in eon.

And of course, I didn't get an intelligent response from you so...I am not disappointed.

Who said they did?

You. Having a good buzz?

[eyeball]

You.

Excuse me but, I said the usual suspects had something to do with the ancient animosities between Serbs and croats, croats and bosnians or bosnians and serbs? I can see where you've tried to imply I said something like this but...

Anyone else remember the days when Morris wasn't such a lame-assed lying sack of poop?