Ban the Burka?

[Muddy]

it's not commonly known, the Germans are a small minority...

Wyly , German speaking people have been there forever. But is German an official language of Belgium? I can`t see it because the Germans were hated during the wars so fiercely.

[William Ashley]

Absolutely disgusting and mindless policy.

[Mr.Canada]

Absolutely disgusting and mindless policy.

Can you please expand on this? Making a smear like this isn't enough to warrant us taking you very seriously.

[William Ashley]

Can you please expand on this? Making a smear like this isn't enough to warrant us taking you very seriously.

Here is an exceprt of a recent letter to Michael Ignatieff

I'll make this brief.

Why are you supporting a ban on cultural dress? It is utterly paranoid and only serves to infringe peoples comfort when there are scanners able to scan through clothing available that if "national security" was the issue, this measure wouldn't offend the cultural aspect.

In mind though if security is based on recognition rather than prevention the security is flawed anyway.

... the fact you would infringe peoples rights on a basis that didn't hold fundamental to national security, and instead reinforced poor security policies. People can mask their apperance in other ways such as demonstrated through the rasta wig in motreal, makeup, and other methods.

Also the medical issue of someone being wrapped due to burns, or a skin condition, or even celebrity status, actuall impairs personal and public safety operations.

I was very opposed to this same move in France, and I don't understand what rationality there is to this other than hate of a specific culture and their practices.

[William Ashley]

Here is an exceprt of a recent letter to Michael Ignatieff

I'll make this brief.

Why are you supporting a ban on cultural dress? It is utterly paranoid and only serves to infringe peoples comfort when there are scanners able to scan through clothing available that if "national security" was the issue, this measure wouldn't offend the cultural aspect.

In mind though if security is based on recognition rather than prevention the security is flawed anyway.

... the fact you would infringe peoples rights on a basis that didn't hold fundamental to national security, and instead reinforced poor security policies. People can mask their apperance in other ways such as demonstrated through the rasta wig in motreal, makeup, and other methods.

Also the medical issue of someone being wrapped due to burns, or a skin condition, or even celebrity status, actuall impairs personal and public safety operations.

I was very opposed to this same move in France, and I don't understand what rationality there is to this other than hate of a specific culture and their practices.

and no I'm not talking airport scanners.

[Mr.Canada]

and no I'm not talking airport scanners.

Women are forced to wear the burka by their families or face severe punishment, in Saudi Arabia, it's the law. Women must wear one or face the death penelty.

The Burka is a form of opression, plain and simple. It turns women into walking prisons devoid of value, individuality or identity.

It makes it very easy for fugitives to hide from the police.

In Belgium a burka clad women was arressted for recruiting suicide bombers

Canada is a secular society and is proud of its liberal values. The burka serves niether of these ends.

It isn't permissable to walk into a bank wearing a balaclava, this is the same thing.

It makes fraud way too easy as they can apply for welfare under various names without having to prove their identity.

So at the end of the day. The integrity of our system and the safety of our citizens trumps any politically correctness.

[William Ashley]

Women are forced to wear the burka by their families or face severe punishment, in Saudi Arabia, it's the law.

Canada and Quebec are not Saudi Arabia, women have protection of the law in Canada.

Women must wear one or face the death penelty.

This is not true in Canada or Quebec, what is your point?

The Burka is a form of opression,

Just like teared jeans are what hoodlums wear. And ball caps arn't appropriate for formal occassions. Is there a no ball caps rule in Quebec? Fact is it isn't it is cultural dress. You take what it means in one place, it doesn't mean it means that somewhere else. Jews where caps all the time as formal wear, so does the pope. Is there a no jewish caps or pope hats rule in Quebec. Jews use to stone people and throw them off cliffs, is suddently the jewish cap no longer a sign of cultural or religious adherance - oh all jews are oppressed and persecuted.

plain and simple.

Not so simple some countries don't require the burka and women still wear it because they like it or the protection it offers.

You know even men use to wear face scarves and it is still pratical in some regions to wear coverings. Canadians in winter wear face protection all the time, people could get frost bite, what if it is a cold day? The point is - why not? They arn't going to be beat up at work for not wearing one, why should they for wearing one. It is absurd.

It turns women into walking prisons devoid of value, individuality or identity.

Get real the opposite is true in Canada demonstrating pride in their minority culture or unique fashion sense. Also if women want to dress conservatively what is the issue? Just cause it ain't a womans suit doesn't make it any less devoid of individuality value and identity.

It makes it very easy for fugitives to hide from the police.

Yeah cause people are commiting crimes in their offices all the time?

And no it doesn't how many people wear burkas? Hey some woman in a burka just robed me... You know if people are going to break the law they can conciel their identity anyway.... Also the fact they wear the burka if what you say is true means they are law abiding people, not criminals.

In Belgium a burka clad women was arressted for recruiting suicide bombers

Yeah how many people wear burkas when was the last time some guy with a beard was arrested for having a firearms cache - in Canada?

Canada is a secular society and is proud of its liberal values.

Yeah their secular values that attack a cultural choice in dress. That ain't a secular value - it is a sectarian xenophobic value.

The burka serves niether of these ends.

Wrong it gives people the choice in dress, that is what a liberal society would support.

It isn't permissable to walk into a bank wearing a balaclava, this is the same thing.

And why not? who the hell cares. It is a pretty clear sign and I'm sure that walking into a bank wearing a balaclava will create more security rather than less. What about jains, or people with hay fever, or people who are hiding from the pig flu. It is a little jaded to target one peice of clothing and not gas masks, security masks, medical masks, other religions religious wear etc.. it is hateful against a specifc culture - it is hate legislation.

It makes fraud way too easy as they can apply for welfare under various names without having to prove their identity.

That is what ID is for - you just need to have a woman and a private room to verify the identity if it is in doubt. With online registration and stuff.. this isn't a standard anymore anyway. Applications can be mailed in. Also wearing it doesn't mean you follow the religious or cultural rules. It is fashion - I feel this way about all dress codes that don't breach other laws. BTW except in some extreme cases IDing is rather stupid and further enhances a totalitarian police state. There are other biometics that can be confirmed without facial recognition. Such as finger scanning, magnetic resonance, retina, and dna.. all data that is more accurate than visual identification. Even things like chemical traces and perfum can be used for identification. Visual identification is very much secondary in todays age of identity alternation capacities. Visual identification is not "secure". There are other more prudent means of securing facilities which do not involve visual identification.

So at the end of the day. The integrity of our system and the safety of our citizens trumps any politically correctness.

No it is a sign of a regressive and hateful society. it is unfortunate people are letting the world fall to shame one law at a time.

There are other issues for visiting dignitaries and business people who we ought to not offend. If them, why not our own people at the same level of rights.

Edited April 3, 2010 by William Ashley

[Mr.Canada]

Well 80% of Canadians want it banned in order to get publicly funded services so it will most likely be the case sooner or later. You're in the minority. No big surprise the mind of the socialist is mentally ill as it will always find and side with a percieved victim. The mind of the socialist needs a victim to latch onto and survive much like a parasite needs a host.

[bush_cheney2004]

Canada and Quebec are not Saudi Arabia, women have protection of the law in Canada.

Still....

In 1991, Gwen Jacob was arrested for walking down a street in Guelph, Ontario while topless. She was acquitted in 1996 by the highest court in Ontario.

The Topfree Equal Rights Association (TERA) is a Canadian organization with an interest in helping women in both Canada and the United States who have legal troubles exercising their rights to go 'topfree' where men are able to.

[Guest TrueMetis]

Still....

In 1991, Gwen Jacob was arrested for walking down a street in Guelph, Ontario while topless. She was acquitted in 1996 by the highest court in Ontario.

The Topfree Equal Rights Association (TERA) is a Canadian organization with an interest in helping women in both Canada and the United States who have legal troubles exercising their rights to go 'topfree' where men are able to.

What's your point? That her rights were protected?

[bush_cheney2004]

What's your point? That her rights were protected?

The point is obvious...that she was "arrested" at all. Maybe the Saudis can ditch the burka in favor of just pasties.

[Guest TrueMetis]

The point is obvious...that she was "arrested" at all. Maybe the Saudis can ditch the burka in favor of just pasties.

Is arrested and acquitted the same as executed now?

[bush_cheney2004]

Is arrested and acquitted the same as executed now?

So you do support unequal laws for men and women? Interesting.....

[Guest TrueMetis]

So you do support unequal laws for men and women? Interesting.....

The aquittal shows that the laws are not unequal as it was overturned. Or does aquittal mean something else where you live?

[bush_cheney2004]

The aquittal shows that the laws are not unequal as it was overturned. Or does aquittal mean something else where you live?

So the promise of an eventual acquittal is a satisfactory remedy to the inequality between the sexes for going topless?

Canada Criminal Code sections 173 and 174 apply, but are unequally applied in the case of females going topless in public, except when specifically permitted. Why are female breasts subject to public decency laws (but not male breasts)?

Edited April 4, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[Guest TrueMetis]

So the promise of an eventual acquittal is a satisfactory remedy to the inequality between the sexes for going topless?

Canada Criminal Code sections 173 and 174 apply, but are unequally applied in the case of females going topless in public, except when specifically permitted. Why are female breasts subject to public decency laws (but not male breasts)?

You do know what precedent is right? How many women have been aressted in Ontario for going topless? How many were convicted? The case you are talking about showed that you cannot unequally apply that law. Complete a highschool law course than talk to me again.

[bush_cheney2004]

You do know what precedent is right? How many women have been aressted in Ontario for going topless? How many were convicted? The case you are talking about showed that you cannot unequally apply that law. Complete a highschool law course than talk to me again.

Nonsense...there were several more cases after 1991. Can women walk down the street topless in Ontario today without risking arrest? The answer is that a complaint will result in a citation or arrest, but prosecution will be arbitrary.

Now why don't you go back to high school...

[Guest TrueMetis]

Nonsense...there were several more cases after 1991. Can women walk down the street topless in Ontario today without risking arrest? The answer is that a complaint will result in a citation or arrest, but prosecution will be arbitrary.

Now why don't you go back to high school...

The date would have to be 1996 after the aquittal and precendent was formed, but still, prove it.

Edited April 4, 2010 by TrueMetis

[bush_cheney2004]

The date would have to be 1996 after the aquittal and precendent was formed, but still, prove it.

Prove what? That Ontario isn't the only province in Canada?

[Bonam]

I'd find nothing wrong with women walking down the street topless if they want. By all means

[Guest TrueMetis]

Prove what? That Ontario isn't the only province in Canada?

Prove that women have been arrested, charged, and convicted with public indecency because they walked around topless. You might get 2/3. The court ruling in 1996 made it so that women walking around topless is not a indecent act in Ontario. So any officer arresting someone for it is not doing it legally.

[bush_cheney2004]

Prove that women have been arrested, charged, and convicted with public indecency because they walked around topless. You might get 2/3. The court ruling in 1996 made it so that women walking around topless is not a indecent act in Ontario. So any officer arresting someone for it is not doing it legally.

This may be true in Ontario, but the clever dodge is that prosecution is now at the discretion of an Attorney General. This effectively preserves Sections 173 & 174 for "community standards". Other conflicts involving public breastfeeding can probably be found after 1996 in Ontario as well, despite OHRC rulings and precedent.

[msdogfood]

ALL of you know that when this case gets to the supreme court she will win!!.

The court will also slap Quebec around a bet to for being very narwomindid!!!!.

[bush_cheney2004]

This burka owner most definitely did not win:

A young Muslim woman had died after her burkha became snagged in a go-kart.

The 24-year-old woman, who has not yet been named, died a terrifying death today when a fluttering part of her burkha became caught in the wheels of a go-kart she was driving near the town of Port Stephens, north of Sydney.

The Muslim clothing the woman was wearing flew back as she sped around the track and part of it became entangled in the go-kart's wheels.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1264535/Muslim-woman-strangled-burkha-freak-kart-accident.html

[msdogfood]

yes that is bad but not about Ban the Burka!!