How money is created

[M.Dancer]

Rather simplistic don't you think......I will suggest calamity.

I don't think that the rise in prices at Walmart or Toys Arrr us will have that effect.

A rising yuan will effect their exports, but on the otherhand our exports would become more affrdable.

Hardly an end to the world scenario.

[M.Dancer]

Again you all strayed from the original intent of this post. I do not care how other countries use their monitary system. Frankly it could afftect me less. I don't care how investments or stocks work. I don't care where your paycheck came from. All I care about is the creation of money and how that gets to the general public. If money is not CREATED through debt, tell me where it comes into circulation from. Look for yourself. It's not a conspiricy because this is how the system works. Resessions and depressions are a by-product of this system.

In my opinion this system needs to change.

Your opinion seems to consist mainly about not caring how the pieces work. Why should it change? It works darn well, even the parts you don't understand or care about.

[M.Dancer]

Even though that has never happened in history it could happen in the future.

Gold also feels the effects on inflation and deflation.

Consider Spain in the age of conquest...so much new gold that the price of gold dropped quite a bit.

[M.Dancer]

The money that is in your hand was loaned by someone initially in order for it to be in existence, money is created out of debt.

Logic bomb.

If it wasn't in existence till it was loaned, what was it before it was loaned?

Money is created by labour and enterprise. The company I work for has in its almost 20 years of opration, never had a loan.

[M.Dancer]

When a company is making billions of dollars other companies are losing just as much.

What shear nonsense.

There is not a finite source of wealth. When one company is making billions of dollars you can be sure right beside them are the competitors all making money too....

But here is a truism...

When one company is losing billions of dollars, a lot of other companies are too...

When GM and Chrysler were walking hat in hand, even the companies that weren't on deaths door were hurting....Ford, Toyota...all of them had to contend with negative growth.

Your premise is 100% flawed.

[Pliny]

Gold also feels the effects on inflation and deflation.

Consider Spain in the age of conquest...so much new gold that the price of gold dropped quite a bit.

Yes. Supply and demand will vary the price. If gold were like water in supply it would never have been adopted as a medium of exchange or become money.

The age of conquest would have been a period of high inflation.

But in all of history gold has yet to drop to zero.

[Pliny]

Money is created by labour and enterprise.

Labour and enterprise would create wealth; not money.

[Pliny]

Your opinion seems to consist mainly about not caring how the pieces work. Why should it change? It works darn well, even the parts you don't understand or care about.

It does work pretty well but better for some than others, and we could do without these incessant wars, the roller coaster economy and pork barrel politicians lining their pockets.

[M.Dancer]

It does work pretty well but better for some than others, and we could do without these incessant wars, the roller coaster economy and pork barrel politicians lining their pockets.

There have always been others...nevertheless, even the poorest in Canada are far richer than the poor were 100 years ago.

As for wars, wars have always been with us...I don't know what roller coaster economy means...over the long period, it has alwasy gone up. I can't imagine an economy that doesn't have players who misread consumer demand, default on loans, speculate poorly or flood the marketplace with unwanted commodities...no fix will remove any of the above.

[M.Dancer]

Labour and enterprise would create wealth; not money.

Tomatoes, potatoes...whether you translate wealth into money, or something else negotiable, without wealth, without labour and enterprise, there is no money.

[Michael Hardner]

The money that is in your hand was loaned by someone initially in order for it to be in existence, money is created out of debt.

You yourself may not have personally took out the loan to create that money but someone else did.

Maybe, maybe not. Isn't money circulated ? It could have been used to pay back a debt, pay out a bank dividend, given as a gift, deposited in a bank account and loaned out again.

[maple_leafs182]

Logic bomb.

If it wasn't in existence till it was loaned, what was it before it was loaned?

Nothing, it didn't exist, this is how new money comes into existence.

Money is created by labour and enterprise. The company I work for has in its almost 20 years of opration, never had a loan.

Thats great, but all money in existence is created out of debt. In order for Canada to have money, it loaned it from the Bank of Canada. The Bank of Canada made the money it loaned Canada out of thin air.

It then charges interest on the money it loaned out, the problem is, if the Bank only loaned out $10 and with interest we have to pay back $11, where will the 1 dollar come from to pay the Bank of Canada back, no where, it doesn't exist. It's perpetual debt. Impossible to pay back the Bank of Canada without going into more debt.

Meaning $1 = $1+interest or 1=1A. Unless a=0, this is impossible.

1=1A

1=1(0)

1=0

A would have to equal 1 for the equation to work, not 0.

Maybe, maybe not. Isn't money circulated ? It could have been used to pay back a debt, pay out a bank dividend, given as a gift, deposited in a bank account and loaned out again.

Your not getting what I'm saying.

Nobody would have any money unless some1 initially loaned the money to bring it into existence.

There have always been others...nevertheless, even the poorest in Canada are far richer than the poor were 100 years ago.

Define richer.

[cybercoma]

Logic bomb.

If it wasn't in existence till it was loaned, what was it before it was loaned?

Money is created by labour and enterprise. The company I work for has in its almost 20 years of opration, never had a loan.

Money is not created by labour and enterprise. Explain how enterprise CREATES money. It's all traced back to the banks making your savings available to someone else in the form of a loan.

[cybercoma]

What shear nonsense.

There is not a finite source of wealth. When one company is making billions of dollars you can be sure right beside them are the competitors all making money too....

Whoever is giving them the billions of dollars is losing the billions of dollars.

[M.Dancer]

Whoever is giving them the billions of dollars is losing the billions of dollars.

No "gives" billions so no one is losing...

[M.Dancer]

Nothing, it didn't exist, this is how new money comes into existence.

So...by the shear act of loaning what doesn't yet exist, it exists....

Should this thread be moved to religion?

[M.Dancer]

Money is not created by labour and enterprise. Explain how enterprise CREATES money. It's all traced back to the banks making your savings available to someone else in the form of a loan.

Man goes to forest, collects wood. Sells wood to people who need wood.

Labour plus enterprise = money.

People who need wood make chairs, sell chairs to people who need to sit.

Labour plus enterprise = money.

Man creates intraweb, sells access to intraweb tp people who need intraweb.

labour plus enterprise = money

[M.Dancer]

Thats great, but all money in existence is created out of debt.

So if I don't need a loan, I am broke?

In order for Canada to have money, it loaned it from the Bank of Canada.

No..they taxed me.

The Bank of Canada made the money it loaned Canada out of thin air.

Except that the B0f C doesn't loan money...Canada raises money when need by on the bond market.

Your not getting what I'm saying.

I get you don't know what you are talking about...

Nobody would have any money unless some1 initially loaned the money to bring it into existence.

I get the feeling you don't understand the history of money...

Define richer.

Being able to go to school. Not having to endenture yourself. Free medical. TV, Intraweb, libraries, cheap food year round..

[M.Dancer]

One way how money is created.

Money is created from what didn't exist, sold to those who want to have what previously, didn't exist.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/technology/personal-tech/apple/apple-sells-300000-ipads/article1523125/

..and I bet they didn't do it with a loan...

[maple_leafs182]

Except that the B0f C doesn't loan money...Canada raises money when need by on the bond market.

Yes, but where did the first Canadian Dollar come from?

I get you don't know what you are talking about...

I know what you are saying, but that is not how money is created, that is how capitalism or the free trade market works, but not how money is created.

I get the feeling you don't understand the history of money...

I think I have firm grasp on the subject

Being able to go to school. Not having to endenture yourself. Free medical. TV, Intraweb, libraries, cheap food year round..

none of these mean the poorer are richer now then they were 100 years ago.

I get it, technology has evolved, we don't live the same lifestyles as 100 years ago, that still doesn't mean the poor are any richer now.

A documentary on the banking system in Canada and how money is created.

Edited April 5, 2010 by maple_leafs182

[Allen]

Ok a couple posts back I meant 1=1+A not 1+1A. Sorry for the typo. I think even M.Dancer is starting to get it. Except that taxes and bonds are all means of extanging money and not creating it. Think about it, if you never created the money how and people pay for taxes? How would Canada pay for the bonds to which it's earning its currancy?

At the point money becomes available to the private and public sectors, it is loaned to them (All of it). This is where the equation 1=1+A comes from. From there you can make the system as confusing as you would like but this will always ensure the bank is owed more money then what actually exist.

Michael Hardner, money is circulated and can be used in a savings account to gain interest. This is because it is just being loaned out again. While the money is in your savings account, someone is getting deeper in debt.

The problem with this system is recessions and depressions. I'm not saying everyone in this system is in debt. By using this system, it is only a matter of time before another great depression hits. Some believe it will make the dirty thirties look like easy times. This is why it needs to change.

[maple_leafs182]

The problem with this system is recessions and depressions. I'm not saying everyone in this system is in debt. By using this system, it is only a matter of time before another great depression hits. Some believe it will make the dirty thirties look like easy times. This is why it needs to change.

The problem is recession and depressions. Why do we choose to live with a system that essentially creates them, why do we make ourselves suffer from time to time, maybe we were tricked into adopting this current system...

Allen, this is the next great depression, we are living in it. September '07 is when it started.

There is no recovery, we are being lied to.

Buy silver now.

You all should really look into what I am saying, I have no reason to lie.

[Bonam]

The problem is recession and depressions. Why do we choose to live with a system that essentially creates them, why do we make ourselves suffer from time to time, maybe we were tricked into adopting this current system...

Economic cycles happened long before we adopted the current system.

Allen, this is the next great depression, we are living in it. September '07 is when it started.

Yeah, some "depression", LOL. A few dudes in worthless companies that made products no one wanted lost their jobs. A few foolish financial institutions keeled over. Big freaking deal.

There is no recovery, we are being lied to.

You are incorrect by every objective indication.

You all should really look into what I am saying, I have no reason to lie.

Perhaps not, but you apparently have every reason to be wrong.

[maple_leafs182]

What makes you believe we are in a recovery? stock markets are high?

[bush_cheney2004]

What makes you believe we are in a recovery? stock markets are high?

We are in a recovery...maybe you aren't?