MPP hints at motion at Queens Park to make Toronto 11th Province

[bush_cheney2004]

That's not the only factor that comes into play, obviously.

Whatever the factors, they are not the same as in gun fearing Canada, which oddly enough, still has plenty of guns.

[Michael Hardner]

Whatever the factors, they are not the same as in gun fearing Canada, which oddly enough, still has plenty of guns.

"Whatever the factors"... is what we're talking about. The rural advantage is real in Canada and the US. The Gun issue is one example.

[bush_cheney2004]

"Whatever the factors"... is what we're talking about. The rural advantage is real in Canada and the US. The Gun issue is one example.

No....it is only another example of drawing a false parallel. "Advantages" exist in non-rural areas as well. The Americans don't look to Canada's representative quandry for examples of what is already clearly defined.

[Michael Hardner]

No....it is only another example of drawing a false parallel. "Advantages" exist in non-rural areas as well. The Americans don't look to Canada's representative quandry for examples of what is already clearly defined.

I would never argue that living in the city has no advantages. After all, I live in Toronto - the largest city in the world.

However, the fact is that there's a rural advantage in government representation... bigger cities are under-represented in Parliament... low population states get as much pull in the US Senate as New York and so on.

[bush_cheney2004]

I would never argue that living in the city has no advantages. After all, I live in Toronto - the largest city in the world.

Many would argue that living in the GTA is decidedly a disadvantage.

However, the fact is that there's a rural advantage in government representation... bigger cities are under-represented in Parliament... low population states get as much pull in the US Senate as New York and so on.

So what....this "advantage" is by design in the USA. There is no comfort to be found there for your continued domestic squabbling.

[Michael Hardner]

Many would argue that living in the GTA is decidedly a disadvantage.

Luckily, they would be absolutely wrong.

So what....this "advantage" is by design in the USA. There is no comfort to be found there for your continued domestic squabbling.

Ok. First argument done and conceded: new argument "The advantage is by design in the USA."

Who "designed" it then ?

[bush_cheney2004]

Luckily, they would be absolutely wrong.

So the "ROC" is absolutely wrong?

Ok. First argument done and conceded: new argument "The advantage is by design in the USA."

Who "designed" it then ?

Article 1, Section 3 of the US Constitution. The "advantage" that you speak of was key in achieving ratification by all states, large and small.

[Michael Hardner]

So the "ROC" is absolutely wrong?

Don't make me repeat myself.

Article 1, Section 3 of the US Constitution. The "advantage" that you speak of was key in achieving ratification by all states, large and small.

I don't see that the advantage was designed specifically to help rural areas for any reason. Do you have anything else ?

[bush_cheney2004]

Don't make me repeat myself.

..this only confirms GTA arrogance.

I don't see that the advantage was designed specifically to help rural areas for any reason. Do you have anything else ?

That's the point that you keep missing...the framework for US Senate in a bicameral Congress was designed for ratification by varied interests regardless of "rural areas", a term that would have applied to most of America at the time.

[Michael Hardner]

..this only confirms GTA arrogance.

Caution, knave, lest I deign thee banished.

That's the point that you keep missing...the framework for US Senate in a bicameral Congress was designed for ratification by varied interests regardless of "rural areas", a term that would have applied to most of America at the time.

Ok - I'm confused as to your point now. Are you now saying that they didn't design the system to give an advantage to rural America ?

[bush_cheney2004]

Ok - I'm confused as to your point now. Are you now saying that they didn't design the system to give an advantage to rural America ?

No, they designed the "system" to win support by states large and small, all of which were "rural" by today's standards. This was known as the Connecticut Compromise. Any talk of "advantage" is wishful thinking on your part.

The Americans found a workable solution for them....Canada still argues about theirs.

Edited March 21, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[Smallc]

The Americans found a workable solution for them....Canada still argues about theirs.

I've heard enough American's arguing about the Senate over the last few weeks to know that you're talking out of...ummm...places other than your mouth. Canda's solution is just as workable as America's. All the provinces signed on, and all the provinces are still here.

[bush_cheney2004]

I've heard enough American's arguing about the Senate over the last few weeks to know that you're talking out of...ummm...places other than your mouth. Canda's solution is just as workable as America's. All the provinces signed on, and all the provinces are still here.

As usual, you're coming in on another ass-end of the discussion....representation. Canada's solution is on temporary vacation whenever the PM says so!

[Smallc]

[Michael Hardner]

Any talk of "advantage" is wishful thinking on your part.

Your quote: "This "advantage" is by design in the USA."

You seem to be going out of your way to get into an argument with me. I was saying that rural voters generally get the advantage - in Ontario and elswhere - and you bounded into the discussion to say the advantage is by design. Now you're making some kind of awkward pirouette... taking back the comment about the design, as you dance offstage.

So, my response is .. Ok, I guess there was no advantage "designed" into the system after all then and thanks for stopping by.

Now, back to Canada... Toronto continues to get no respect from the rest of Canada and continue to elect Liberals and NDP. Is Harper even trying to get Toronto on his side ?

[bush_cheney2004]

Your quote: "This "advantage" is by design in the USA."

Advantage is in quotes, as clearly I take exception to your mischaracterization just to score parallel brownie points in Canada over issues like "guns"...oh my!

You seem to be going out of your way to get into an argument with me. I was saying that rural voters generally get the advantage - in Ontario and elswhere - and you bounded into the discussion to say the advantage is by design. Now you're making some kind of awkward pirouette... taking back the comment about the design, as you dance offstage.

No, I am right here, more than happy to point out your questionable conclusions that can't hope to stand on their own (without the obligatory references to another nation's decisions and constitution). That happens a lot around here...apparently Canada lacks gravitas on its own in their minds.

So, my response is .. Ok, I guess there was no advantage "designed" into the system after all then and thanks for stopping by.

Your response is muddled in the face of historical fact. Invoking "New York" will not help your cause in a comparative backwater like Toronto.

Now, back to Canada... Toronto continues to get no respect from the rest of Canada and continue to elect Liberals and NDP. Is Harper even trying to get Toronto on his side ?

See above.

Edited March 21, 2010 by bush_cheney2004

[nicky10013]

Advantage is in quotes, as clearly I take exception to your mischaracterization just to score parallel brownie points in Canada over issues like "guns"...oh my!

No, I am right here, more than happy to point out your questionable conclusions that can't hope to stand on their own (without the obligatory references to another nation's decisions and constitution). That happens a lot around here...apparently Canada lacks gravitas on its own in their minds.

Your response is muddled in the face of historical fact. Invoking "New York" will not help your cause in a comparative backwater like Toronto.

See above.

I'd like to know why living in the GTA is a disadvantage. As per usual, any point you come up you don't address.

Furthermore, have you ever been to Toronto? If so, what makes it a backwater? I've been to London, Paris and New York, 3 of the 4 cities labelled the most important global cities. London and New York, discounting size by population, London, New York and Toronto are fairly similar in terms of large population of immigrant communities, culture, urban life etc. Financially, Toronto is no where near as important as the two on a global scale but is still Canada's largest in terms of banking and money which is the same situation shared by New York and London.

Listen, I know the arguments. If there's anything that's true it's that Torontonians hate Toronto as much as the rest of Canada. Despite it's importance no where near the level of New York or London, Toronto is a world class city. That's not me shoving it down the throat of other Canadians, just my opinion. Just look at the facts. If you come to a different conclusion that's your prerogative.

[bush_cheney2004]

I'd like to know why living in the GTA is a disadvantage. As per usual, any point you come up you don't address.

Ask the people who leave.

I hate the Skydome and the CN Tower too

I hate Nathan Phillips Square and the Ontario Zoo

The rents too high, the air's unclean

The beaches are dirty and the people are mean

And the women are big and the men are dumb

And the children are loopy 'cause they live in a slum

The water is polluted and the mayor's a dork

They dress real bad and they think they're New York

In Toronto, Ontario

Furthermore, have you ever been to Toronto? If so, what makes it a backwater? I've been to London, Paris and New York, 3 of the 4 cities labelled the most important global cities. London and New York, discounting size by population, London, New York and Toronto are fairly similar in terms of large population of immigrant communities, culture, urban life etc.

Yet comparisons are made to New York or Paris...not Toronto. Having been to Toronto on business, it is clear why. Montreal has more soul than Toronto.

Financially, Toronto is no where near as important as the two on a global scale but is still Canada's largest in terms of banking and money which is the same situation shared by New York and London.

Largest compared to what? Spain's economy is bigger than Canada's...so is California's.

Listen, I know the arguments. If there's anything that's true it's that Torontonians hate Toronto as much as the rest of Canada. Despite it's importance no where near the level of New York or London, Toronto is a world class city. That's not me shoving it down the throat of other Canadians, just my opinion. Just look at the facts. If you come to a different conclusion that's your prerogative.

Correct...Toronto is no New York, London, or Paris....even when it pretends to be.

[Smallc]

And the women are big and the men are dumb

I believe Toronto is one of the thinnest cities in North America.

Largest compared to what? Spain's economy is bigger than Canada's

That goes back and forth. It's rather irrelevant though, as usual.

Edited March 21, 2010 by Smallc

[bush_cheney2004]

I believe Toronto is one of the thinnest cities in North America.

...in many ways. It's a nice place to be from based on the refugees who OD in Hollywood.

That goes back and forth. It's rather irrelevant though, as usual.

The point you missed is that Spain or California (with larger economies than all of Canada), do not have pretender wannabe cities like Toronto.

[Smallc]

...in many ways. It's a nice place to be from based on the refugees who OD in Hollywood.

Someday, you'll actually make a point. Not today though it seems.

The point you missed is that Spain or California (with larger economies than all of Canada), do not have pretender wannabe cities like Toronto.

Sure, as long as you don't count LA or Madrid.

[bush_cheney2004]

Sure, as long as you don't count LA or Madrid.

World class cities in their own right with no need to pretend they are New York (like laughable Toronto).

[Smallc]

World class cities in their own right with no need to pretend they are New York (like laughable Toronto).

Toronto is a world class city in it's own right. It doesn't require your stamp of approval.

[DFCaper]

Yet comparisons are made to New York or Paris...not Toronto. Having been to Toronto on business, it is clear why. Montreal has more soul than Toronto.

Largest compared to what? Spain's economy is bigger than Canada's...so is California's.

Correct...Toronto is no New York, London, or Paris....even when it pretends to be.

I do agree, Montreal is a way cooler city to visit than Toronto. Plus the cost of living makes lifestyles closer to 3rd world than a rural lifestyle.

I think Canada's problem with Toronto is mostly a result of the media. How many times did I have to hear about some Marlies during the Canuck's game last night. That the Other Toronto AHL team. Plus the Leaf fans in general. The Leafs are a National embarrassment, but still get most of the National coverage. And when there's any snow, it's a breaking story. I'm sorry, but 2" of snow in February shouldn't be breaking news across a northern country. If you want to be the leader in Canada, try being a bit like Canada. Win at Hockey and enjoy the snow... And try and have your own culture, instead of being of foreign cultures..

[Smallc]