Equalization payments

[Smallc]

I don't disagree with that...

That is precisely what Equalization is.

[Guest TrueMetis]

your darn right its my opinion. Or do you think the government should take away that too.

No I think you should stop saying it like it's fact.

[Alta4ever]

The people who wrote the Constitution Act 1982...and the people who currently run the country seem to disagree.

The man who is responsible for the 1982 Constitution was a National Socialist fool. Even a red tory understood that the constitution as written by that fool had major flaws, and was unable to change due to the formula for amendments. It has made it almost impossible to change. Just wait future governments will not be trying to change, provincial governments will break it, because of that fools lack of foresight.

[Smallc]

no one is preventing anyone from the rest of Canada and getting a share of that per capita GDP...and put it in perspective this is an expensive place to live,

Ontario and BC are expensive places to live too. They get by with almost virtually no equalization between them and they contribute large amounts as well. They get by with per capita GDPs just over half that of Alberta's. BCs total economy is worth $100B less than Alberta's. Alberta's economy is worth almost as much as Quebec's with less than half the population. Would it be fair to the rest of the federation if Alberta got to keep all of that money...money that only comes out of sheer luck of where Alberta was places? I don't think it would be. It would create a disparity unheard of in other western countries.

[wyly]

There aren't enough jobs in Alberta for all Canadians,

who said all Canadians? 20-25% of Calagary and Edmonton are immigrants that's 600,000 people, that's a lot of jobs that could've been had by Candians from havenot provinces and a lot did come...

and we shouldn't have to move there if we don't have to.

no one said you did...

I've never seen someone who calls themselves a left winger campaign against equalization.

I never said I was against EQ...

Alberta was lucky to be placed where they were when they were created. That's simply the reality.

yup, but it was...

For Albertans to sit here and lecture the rest of us about where we should go, or what we should do is rather rich.

it's merely advise to to do with as you please..

Take the oil and gas away and Alberta is nothing more than any of the rest of us.

correct, but it has oil and 4 million people who are concerned it's being squandered by others...

[Alta4ever]

No I think you should stop saying it like it's fact.

It is a fact, just one you happen not to agree with.

[Smallc]

The man who is responsible for the 1982 Constitution was a National Socialist fool.

That's another opinion. The Constitution Act 1982 is in fact, I would say, an excellent document. It wasn't only the baby of Trudeau.

Just wait future governments will not be trying to change, provincial governments will break it, because of that fools lack of foresight.

How exactly will they do that?

[Guest TrueMetis]

It is a fact, just one you happen not to agree with.

Do you get to vote in federal elections? If yes than you do get to decide what happens to your tax dollars everytime you vote. If no you aren't a citizen and therefore have no right to vote anyway.

[Alta4ever]

Alberta was lucky to be placed where they were when they were created. That's simply the reality.

And yet Saskatchewan has more resources then alberta and is much less developed hmmmm. And has only just become a have province,hmmmm.

[Smallc]

who said all Canadians? 20-25% of Calagary and Edmonton are immigrants that's 600,000 people, that's a lot of jobs that could've been had by Candians from havenot provinces and a lot did come...

And a lot didn't, because we have jobs here too, and quite frankly, Alberta is the last province I would move to given the attitude that is displayed by so many Albertans.

no one said you did...

No, you just...suggested...

I never said I was against EQ...

And so?...I'm still not sure what you want.

yup, but it was...

And you think gives the rest of Canada no right to any of that wealth?

it's merely advise to to do with as you please..

And if we don't follow it?

correct, but it has oil and 4 million people who are concerned it's being squandered by others...

And quite frankly, that's not really your business. You don't get to decide what Quebec does with its equalization money. You get to elect federal governments, who may or may not change he formula (though there's only so much they can do), but Quebec's internal affairs are their own.

[Alta4ever]

Do you get to vote in federal elections? If yes than you do get to decide what happens to your tax dollars everytime you vote. If no you aren't a citizen and therefore have no right to vote anyway.

I don't get to vote for those who spend the equalization funds provided by my taxes and neither does the representative I elect. I can't vote for a representative to rid us of this abysmal experiment as it is entrenched in the constitution and it is all but impossible to change.

[Smallc]

And yet Saskatchewan has more resources then alberta and is much less developed hmmmm. And has only just become a have province,hmmmm.

The oil was sitting on the surface in Alberta. Not so in Saskatchewan. It's much harder to get in most places.

[Smallc]

I don't get to vote for those who spend the equalization funds provided by my taxes and neither does the representative I elect.

Why should you? It isn't your province. Maybe we should change the Constitution to make resource revenues go straight to the federal government...that would solve the problem.

[Alta4ever]

You should be grateful for the opportunity to live in a society that allows you to do so well. You aren't, so I don't think they should have to be grateful to you either.

Oh you believe society allows me to do well? That isn't societies choice it is mine. What I am grateful for is those who have fought and died for me to have that self determination.

[Alta4ever]

Why should you? It isn't your province.

But it is my tax money.

[Smallc]

But it is my tax money.

It's my tax money too. It's everyone's tax money. Albertan's aren't the only ones who pay taxes.

[Guest TrueMetis]

I don't get to vote for those who spend the equalization funds provided by my taxes and neither does the representative I elect. I can't vote for a representative to rid us of this abysmal experiment as it is entrenched in the constitution and it is all but impossible to change.

Which is as it should be.

An analogy if I may. Four people work for a company. Each employee must make at least an average of $100,000 a year for the company. Person A makes $80,000 for the company, person B makes $120,000, Person C makes $160,000 and person D makes $40,000. They all hold the same position and therefore make the same amount, lets say $50,000 a year. Doesn't matter how much they make for the company they all get paid the same amount. This amount is given to them by the employer, who they can try to get a raise out of at the expense of the other employees. The contracts negotiated make what he can do very limited. Once an employee gets the paycheck the other employees have no say in what happens to the money.

Edited March 15, 2010 by TrueMetis

[Smallc]

Oh you believe society allows me to do well? That isn't societies choice it is mine. What I am grateful for is those who have fought and died for me to have that self determination.

If you don't recognize that it is in fact the place you live that contributes to your success, then you're delusional.

[Alta4ever]

The oil was sitting on the surface in Alberta. Not so in Saskatchewan. It's much harder to get in most places.

Conventional drilling is much easier. But why do you people always forget the potash, uranium, natural gas, coal and other resources.

The tar sands in Alberta were not easy to exploit it took nearly 70 year to get it to a point were it was economically viable to exploit them. Alberta's economy is actually more focus on natural gas then oil, but so few seem to realize this.

[Alta4ever]

If you don't recognize that it is in fact the place you live that contributes to your success, then you're delusional.

Self determination is what what decides success. You could live on a gold mine but if you did not have the ability to choose to dig you would have nothing.

[Smallc]

Conventional drilling is much easier. But why do you people always forget the potash, uranium, natural gas, coal and other resources.

The tar sands in Alberta were not easy to exploit it took nearly 70 year to get it to a point were it was economically viable to exploit them. Alberta's economy is actually more focus on natural gas then oil, but so few seem to realize this.

Actually it isn't anymore. It was shown in the Globe article I liked to earlier. The province gets more than double the revenue from oil that it does from Gas.

As for Saskatchewan, they've been getting wealthier since the beginning of potash. With the oil boom, it simply all came together. Alberta got investment first, but it isn't all because of Alberta.

Edited March 15, 2010 by Smallc

[Smallc]

Self determination is what what decides success. You could live on a gold mine but if you did not have the ability to choose to dig you would have nothing.

And if you live in a hellhole, it doesn't matter much what you decide to do with it. In Canada, it matters because of the society we've built. In Zimbabwe, that isn't the case.

[Alta4ever]

Which is as it should be.

An analogy if I may. Four people work for a company. Each employee must make at least an average of $100,000 a year for the company. Person A makes $80,000 for the company, person B makes $120,000, Person C makes $160,000 and person D makes $40,000. They all hold the same position and therefore make the same amount, lets say $50,000 a year. Doesn't matter how much they make for the company they all get paid the same amount. This amount is given to them by the employer, who they can try to get a raise out of at the expense of the other employees. The contracts negotiated make what he can do very limited. Once an employee gets the paycheck the other employees have no say in what happens to the money.

Sorry you example doesn't work.

You don't elect you boss as your representation in the world of private enterprise.

[Alta4ever]

Actually it isn't anymore. It was shown in the Globe article I liked to earlier. The province gets more than double the revenue from oil that it does from Gas.

No shit since the bottom has dropped out of the natural gas market. With ability to extract natural gas from shale has drastically increased the supply, which has driven down the price. That means the royalties that were earned have dropped drastically. That is where the 14 billion dollar error of the last provincial budget came from.

[Alta4ever]

And if you live in a hellhole, it doesn't matter much what you decide to do with it. In Canada, it matters because of the society we've built. In Zimbabwe, that isn't the case.

And when the citizens make the choice of rising up against the oppresion in their society they will again be able to pursue a better living standard. The individuals themselves will have to make the decision to do this, society won't do it for them. They thought they were entitled to what the rich farmers had in Zim, drop them out userped their lands and now, because of their sense of entitlement they don't even have the food to feed themselves in zim any more. (before they drove out the farm owners zim was able to produce enough food stuffs to feed the country)