Born Free Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 Yes of course....any luck backing up your assertions? No? Are you ready to consider why? My assertions? About you? There is a body of evidence on that topic. What other assertions would you be referring to Morris? Quote
ToadBrother Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 a fight is two parties having it out, a beating is victim unable to defend themselves/torture...there is a dfference, if I tie you to a chair and a couple of goons start kicking and punching you, do you call that a fight? As with all things, it is as much intent as it is what's done (though I don't think anybody could call waterboarding a "fighting" technique. As you have said, torture's purpose is to extract information, or at the very least to overawe, demoralize and render psychologically submissive. I'm not defending beatings. Beatings are very bad. But torture, that's a whole different ball of wax, and has long been recognized as such. The only reason I can see to equate what happened to this guy to torture is because the comparison servers a political end. Quote
M.Dancer Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 My assertions? About you? There is a body of evidence on that topic. What other assertions would you be referring to Morris? Is this a lame assed effort to divert the topic because you are unable to back up your assertions (about the topic)? Yes yes it is.... Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Born Free Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 Is this a lame assed effort to divert the topic because you are unable to back up your assertions (about the topic)? Do you even know what you are bitching about? You asked about my assertions....I asked what assertions? Cant you read? Quote
M.Dancer Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 Since it is painfully apparent you suffer from the amnesia which afflicts those who cannot back up their statements, i will help you along. This isnt about that Morris. Its about what happened in Afghanistan. Criminals arrested in Canada have been known to end up in Syria and tortured.... Name one -Did CSIS interrogate tortured Detainees? -As an add-on from previous allegations...Did Canadian forces turn over prisoners to Afghan authorities knowing that they would be likely tortured and did nothing to ensure that torture wouldnt take place? Prove either of those. Nicky was unable to prove the first... you cannot prove the second and that last part of your asswertion is demonstarbably false. Sure they do. Provide one citation from either the US, Canada, the UK etc etc....where they say they are covered by the 3rd convention... Waiting... Correct. So do other conventions which the terrorists are covered. Yet you are unable to support why the terrorists are afforded protection under the 3rd convention. waiting Why would Canada issue a citation acknowledging the 3rd & 4th convention regarding prisoner/datainees? Makes no sense. We've aready signed on to it. Pathetic dodge... I dont need to support anything. Its already covered by the GC. Dodge.. Do you even know what you are bitching about? You asked about my assertions....I asked what assertions? Cant you read? Dodge... That's pretty slimey BF. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Army Guy Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 Not to the person on the receiving end... In legal terms there is a big difference... I would never kid you about General Boyle being complicit in altering documents. I dont hold an entire organization to task. Just the leaders. So should you. Truth Duty Honour. First, I'm not painting everyone. Surely you must know that by now. I'm asking that our leaders (government and military) be held to the highest of standards. Please dont play that card.."you werent in the military so you cant possibly understand". It simply doent work. Lets just say that I am close to a retired Col. and we both share the same view on this issue. I won't play that card "you wer'nt in the military" if you don't lecture me on Truth, duty and honor, i've been living it for almost 30 years now... In your statement you had said One CDS had done it, so they are all capable of doing it....in fact you did paint all the leadership within the Forces with the same brush....Thats after i pionted out that the current chain of command was still junior officers when the somolia incident happend....how does that translate into todays leaders....and what does that say about your friend the Col, i mentioned that because the forces has suffer a black eye inregards to another Col, who raped and murdered some girls....does that translate all Cols are murders and rapists...we both know it does not, nor does it prove that it will not happen again..... My piont is there are a great many soldiers within our military that does live and and die living up to truth duty honor....and there will always be those that push that aside for thier own good....the last CDS and the current CDS are soldiers...of high standing and are examples of truth duty and honor.... Truth Duty Honour. We expect it from our soldiers and I expect it from the top brass. There is sufficient probable cause that they need closer inspection. So my question is how does a beating of a taliabn suspect translate into a closer inspection of the CDS and military....when it was it's own members that a) corrected the situation....and went on TV and corrected misinformation he had given out the day before....when if they are as bad as everyone suspects...why not just phone the Afghan police and tell them to make this guy disappear, or collect him themsleves and make him disappear....and then why go on TV and correct the misinformation....and go again'st party stance....why risk it all thats the question i ask... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Born Free Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 Since it is painfully apparent you suffer from the amnesia which afflicts those who cannot back up their statements, i will help you along. Name one Surely you knew I was merely doing what you do as a past time.... ie. being facetious with you. We both know about Canadian authorities being complicit in helping a Canadian to be shipped off to Syria and tortured. Surely you must know about that. It cost the tax payers a lot of moola. It seems that Canada has a habit of looking the other way on this stuff. Prove either of those. Nicky was unable to prove the first... you cannot prove the second and that last part of your asswertion is demonstarbably false. First..given that you cant read..I will help you. They were questions...not assertions. Second, I believe another poster stated that it will be proven one way or the other just as soon as the government stops hiding the documents and opens the books (so to speak) and answer questions while under oath. Third, I'll let you do the hunting for the citations you are asserting dont exist. The GC is very clear on the handling of detainees. That's pretty slimey BF. If by my emulating your style of communicating with other posters is deemed by you as being slimey... perhaps you should stop doing that. Quote
M.Dancer Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 Surely you knew I was merely doing what you do as a past time.... ie. being facetious with you. We both know about Canadian authorities being complicit in helping a Canadian to be shipped off to Syria and tortured. Surely you must know about that. It cost the tax payers a lot of moola. It seems that Canada has a habit of looking the other way on this stuff. In other words you were either lying or you were mistaken. First..given that you cant read..I will help you. They were questions...not assertions. Okay...I will file that under stupid questions Third, I'll let you do the hunting for the citations you are asserting dont exist. The GC is very clear on the handling of detainees. ??? You are correct They are very clear. No prove the terrorists are cobered by the 3rd convention. If by my emulating your style of communicating with other posters is deemed by you as being slimey... perhaps you should stop doing that. If you wish to emulate me you will have to try harder to sound like you know what you are talking about. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Born Free Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 In legal terms there is a big difference... Really? Not to the guy receiving the beating/torture/etc. I won't play that card "you wer'nt in the military" if you don't lecture me on Truth, duty and honor, i've been living it for almost 30 years now... First..you did play that card. Second, yer playing it again..... In your statement you had said One CDS had done it, so they are all capable of doing it.... Surely you arent saying subsequent CDC chiefs arent capable of doing it again are you? Tell me you jest. By the time one gets to the top of the food chain, these guys are as much a politician as they are military guys. So my question is how does a beating of a taliabn suspect translate into a closer inspection of the CDS and military.... Pretty much in the way a beating of two Somalis translated into an inquiry of what transpired in the bowels of the offices occupied by the top brass. One not need to be a member of the military to understand this stuff. Shit happens and when it does, one should find a way to stop it from happening again before it becomes an even a bigger pile of shit. NOTE: Please observe that my condemnation has been limited to only the top brass and that you shouldnt take my concerns quite so personal. Think of it this way...I was a senior manager in a Canadian Chartered Bank. Public criticism (some of it deserved) of my President &/or CEO was never seen by me as a slight on us grunt employees. Cheers, Quote
Army Guy Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 a fight is two parties having it out, a beating is victim unable to defend themselves/torture...there is a dfference, if I tie you to a chair and a couple of goons start kicking and punching you, do you call that a fight? No your right according to the UN defination of torture, here it is... ...any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him, or a third person, information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in, or incidental to, lawful sanctions.—UN Convention Against Torture[1] but it could also fit under assualt. Similar to the United States, there are many different ways in which an assault can occur. Generally an assault occurs when a person directly or indirectly applies force intentionally to another person. An assault can also occur when a person attempts to assault another or threatens to do so without the consent of the other person.... we all know that is a fact the miltary took pictures of the detainee before they turned him over to the Afghans, they suspected detainees were being tortured... Taking pictures is SOP for identification, also to proove that prisoner was not abused on our end....and to also prove the staus of the prisoner just prior to hand over....this policy came about from the first bunch of changes remember the Taliban prisoner claiming he was beat up by Canadian soldiers...the claim by Ottawa univerisity prof which was proven false...but got everyone panties in a knot....Ya we call them cover your ass changes...and not cover your ass from the enemy changes....cover your ass from your own countrymen changes...It's nice to be loved though.... the military is not a private club where big boys can play soldier it's a job... if esprit de corps is genuine then you accept group punishment for group behaviour, but then esprit de corps is BS when it's not convenient...the military is no different than any other employer, if the boss wants to rearrange a dysfunctional department/regiment he has a right to do so... No it is a club, one that not everyone can join, or play....and while it may be a job to you, to us in the club it is a life stlye choice....I guess your right, about group punishment, this group numbered about a dozen....and the disbandment effect thousands of serving and past serving soldiers , some who had given thier lives for this very same regt....It was disbanded which in our world is a great dishonor...not a slap in the face but serveral kicks to the nuts.... As for the military being no different than any other employer , i guess you don't get it...we are different and leave it at that....Your right the boss has a right to do anything within reason...close regts down, fire , hire anyone he wants...order the military to take away freedoms and liberties....but before the Boss did all that one would think he done it for the people and what was in the best interest of the country....not just because he could...or it served his party at the time.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Born Free Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 (edited) In other words you were either lying or you were mistaken. I never lie nor was I mistaken. Do some reading on the subject and you might learn sumpthin' Okay...I will file that under stupid questions Once you learn the difference between an assertion and asking a question... you can file that too... You are correct They are very clear. No prove the terrorists are cobered by the 3rd convention. What terrorists? Perhaps you should read Article 4 of the GC. If you wish to emulate me you will have to try harder to sound like you know what you are talking about. Given that you called me "slimey" in an earlier post.... I can safely say that I definitely emulated you to perfection. Edited March 10, 2010 by Born Free Quote
M.Dancer Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 NOTE: Please observe that my condemnation has been limited to only the top brass and that you shouldnt take my concerns quite so personal. [cough]bullshit[/cough] -As an add-on from previous allegations...Did Canadian forces turn over prisoners to Afghan authorities knowing that they would be likely tortured and did nothing to ensure that torture wouldnt take place? Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Born Free Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 (edited) [cough]bullshit[/cough] Perhaps one day...but perhaps not... you might learnt to read. It was a valid question and not a condemnation. Whats the matter with you Morris? Edited March 10, 2010 by Born Free Quote
M.Dancer Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 Perhaps one day...but perhaps not... you might learnt to read. It was a valid question and not a condemnation. Whats the matter with you Morris? I so hope to one day learnt to read.... -As an add-on from previous allegations...Did Canadian forces turn over prisoners to Afghan authorities knowing that they would be likely tortured and did nothing to ensure that torture wouldnt take place? by the way what does allegation mean to you? al·le·ga·tion (l-gshn)n. 1. Something alleged; an assertion: allegations of disloyalty. 2. The act of alleging. 3. A statement asserting something without proof: The newspaper's charges of official wrongdoing were mere allegations. 4. Law An assertion made by a party that must be proved or supported with evidence. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Born Free Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 I so hope to one day learnt to read.... by the way what does allegation mean to you? Clearly it means little to you. Be careful about criticizing typos Morris. Its a last resort and you dont want to be in that mode just yet...soon perhaps but not yet... Quote
Alta4ever Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 Clearly it means little to you. Be careful about criticizing typos Morris. Its a last resort and you dont want to be in that mode just yet...soon perhaps but not yet... I don't think he was criticizing typos Quote "What about the legitimacy of the democratic process, yeah, what about it?" Jack Layton and his coup against the people of Canada “The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help.’” President Ronald Reagan
M.Dancer Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 Be careful about criticizing typos Morris. Its a last resort and you dont want to be in that mode just yet...soon perhaps but not yet... And be careful spelling when criticizing reading comprehension Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Born Free Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 And be careful spelling when criticizing reading comprehension Have you read article 4 of the GC? Do you need any help? Oh yes...one more thing....you have made several references to terrorists...I asked you before but you refused to answer my question ie.... what terrorists? Quote
M.Dancer Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 (edited) By framing his allegations in question form, he hopes to avoid being called on it... By framing allegations that have already been answered properly, he repeats falsehoods. Did Canadian forces turn over prisoners to Afghan authorities knowing that they would be likely tortured and did nothing to ensure that torture wouldnt take place? Scurrilous Edited March 10, 2010 by M.Dancer Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Born Free Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 I don't think he was criticizing typos Yes he was. Quote
M.Dancer Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 Yes he was. Actually I was criticizing your vocabulary while making fun of your spelling in the lame insult you leveled at me. I mean...you are the one who claimed you did not make assertions when you clearly did. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Born Free Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 By framing his allegations in question form, he hopes to avoid being called on it... By framing allegations that have already been answered properly, he repeats falsehoods. Scurrilous Speaking of falsehoods. Now run along and read up on Article 4 of the GC. Quote
Born Free Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 Actually I was criticizing your vocabulary while making fun of your spelling in the lame insult you leveled at me. I mean...you are the one who claimed you did not make assertions when you clearly did. More scurrilous lies. Quote
M.Dancer Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 Once you learn the difference between an assertion and asking a question... you can file that too... al·le·ga·tion (l-gshn)n. 1. Something alleged; an assertion: allegations of disloyalty. 2. The act of alleging. 3. A statement asserting something without proof: The newspaper's charges of official wrongdoing were mere allegations. 4. Law An assertion made by a party that must be proved or supported with evidence. English. It's a great tool. Learn it. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
Born Free Posted March 10, 2010 Report Posted March 10, 2010 Actually I was criticizing your vocabulary while making fun of your spelling in the lame insult you leveled at me. Yer a strange man Morris. Quotes by Morris.... : :lol:lol: "Prove either of those. Nicky was unable to prove the first... you cannot prove the second and that last part of your asswertion is demonstarbably false." "You are correct They are very clear. No prove the terrorists are cobered by the 3rd convention." Quote
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