When will Harper add senate seats out west?

[Smallc]

Which is why I said, that change needs to happen. Polls show that a majority of Canadians support the change. Lets find out for sure. Lets have a referendum for EEE. We won't open any other part of the Constitution, that will never even be an option. If the majority of people in a province vote to change the Senate to EEE, then I don't see why the provincial governments would stand in the way.

Edit: One other thing would have to be changed - the floor that has the HoC seats at least equal to the Senate seats. If PEI is suddenly going to get 10 Senators (because from what I hear, about 100 is necessary for the Senate to operate properly) they sure as heck aren't getting 10 HoC seats.

Edited March 7, 2010 by Smallc

[Smallc]

Oh, and I've heard the American left crying for Senate reform for at least the last month now. I remember you telling me you didn't think American's disliked their system. It seems that a large number of them do.

[punked]

Which is why I said, that change needs to happen. Polls show that a majority of Canadians support the change. Lets find out for sure. Lets have a referendum for EEE. We won't open any other part of the Constitution, that will never even be an option. If the majority of people in a province vote to change the Senate to EEE, then I don't see why the provincial governments would stand in the way.

Edit: One other thing would have to be changed - the floor that has the HoC seats at least equal to the Senate seats. If PEI is suddenly going to get 10 Senators (because from what I hear, about 100 is necessary for the Senate to operate properly) they sure as heck aren't getting 10 HoC seats.

Lets have a referendum on getting rid of the Senate, it doesn't work in the States why would it work here. Get rid of it PEI should not have the same say as Ontario sorry PEI that is life. If you give PEI-NS-NB-Newfoundland and the Territories the same say as all the other provinces you will get what they have in the states 20-30% of the population holding the rest hostage too get goodies and votes. It is a dumb idea.

[Smallc]

Territories

The territories are not provinces and really should not have Senate seats at all. PEI on the other hand is as equal as Ontario as far as the idea of Confederation is confirmed. The Senate is important, whether or not you believe it is.

Edit: Getting rid of the Senate could be a question, but then you're less likely to get the majority result in one direction or another.

Edited March 7, 2010 by Smallc

[Smallc]

This article by Jim Travers (IMO, a very smart man) is interesting though.

[punked]

The territories are not provinces and really should not have Senate seats at all. PEI on the other hand is as equal as Ontario as far as the idea of Confederation is confirmed. The Senate is important, whether or not you believe it is.

Edit: Getting rid of the Senate could be a question, but then you're less likely to get the majority result in one direction or another.

But it really isn't on the same level as Ontario. Their population should not be abused by Ontario but they should not be allowed to hold the country hostage as many small states in the US do. That system is broken and I would not want it here.

[Smallc]

But it really isn't on the same level as Ontario.

Not on the level of population, but there is a house for that. As far as Constitutional change is concerned, or a potential Senate, they are on the same level.

[punked]

Not on the level of population, but there is a house for that. As far as Constitutional change is concerned, or a potential Senate, they are on the same level.

I agree but anything that is passed in the house is run through the Senate. So all of sudden all work stops that is a dumb idea. If it was only about constitutional change I could care less about the Senate but that is not their only job.

[Smallc]

So who will do their job if they're gone?

[punked]

So who will do their job if they're gone?

No one needs too do their job. Figuring out if bills are constitutional? That is the job of the House committee looking at the bill, and then the courts. Representing the people of different provinces that is the job of MPs. No one needs to do their jobs, our MPs and courts need too do their jobs better that is all. We don't need some old political hack (yes man) getting 150 000 a year for showing up too work 15 days a year.

[Smallc]

Oh, you aren't one of those people that thinks parliamentarians only work when they're in Parliament, are you?

Who will look at the legislation again, without the partisan charged atmosphere of the Commons? Who will ensure that regional and language interests are considered?

[punked]

Oh, you aren't one of those people that thinks parliamentarians only work when they're in Parliament, are you?

Who will look at the legislation again, without the partisan charged atmosphere of the Commons? Who will ensure that regional and language interests are considered?

I am one of those types that knows Senate members never work. I know my MP works, but my Senator tours the country raising money for the conservative party on my dime.

As for your second two questions no one does that now so I don't see how things will change. Make MPs do their jobs right, and the courts are there too fix anything that does fit our laws as they stand. That is what you need.

[Smallc]

I am one of those types that knows Senate members never work.

Since that isn't correct, you obviously don't know.

I know my MP works, but my Senator tours the country raising money for the conservative party on my dime.

I'm sure your Senator does more than that.

As for your second two questions no one does that now so I don't see how things will change.

The Senate does that now for the most part.

[punked]

Since that isn't correct, you obviously don't know.

I'm sure your Senator does more than that.

The Senate does that now for the most part.

Andrew Thompson was a Senator for 8 YEARS and went to work 12 times.

Philippe Gigantes once read his entire book in the Senate just too get the French transcript so he could publish a French version.

Raymond Lavigne is still collecting $130,000 from the Canadian government even though he has never caste a vote in the Senate in 3 years. He is standing trail for misuse of his seat as a Senator, he sent his staff paid for by you and I too cut trees at his vacation home.

Those are just some examples of the Senate working. It also might interest you too know Under the Senate rules not only are Senators allowed too sit on the boards of companies and work, for them, they are also allowed to lobby government for those companies. Section 15 of the conflict of interest code of the senate.

It is a stupid broken system, with stupid broken rules, government by political yes men. No thank you get rid of it no one needs it.

[Smallc]

Or rather, you think no one needs it. What it might need is some reform, it doesn't need to go away. Oh, BTW, you said that one of those Senators is being held accountable for his actions. That doesn't seem broken at all.

Edited March 7, 2010 by Smallc

[punked]

Or rather, you think no one needs it. What it might need is some reform, it doesn't need to go away. Oh, BTW, you said that one of those Senators is being held accountable for his actions. That doesn't seem broken at all.

He is the second Senator EVER too be put to trail for misuse of his Senate seat, he got to collect 130,000 dollars for the 3 years but hasn't been allowed to vote ever. His seat can not be filled, and no one is really sure if him sending his Federal employees too his vacation home to cut down trees was really a violation. That doesn't sound broke too you? What world do you live in? We don't need it, the provinces got rid of their Senates 100 years ago and none of them have fallin apart there is no reason why we should have them.

[Smallc]

You've argued this before, but the Provinces are NOT federations. In a federation, regional interests must be balanced with popular interests. I know as a populist you don't like that idea, but that's the way every single federation or subdivided unitary state works.

Edited March 7, 2010 by Smallc

[punked]

You've argued this before, but the Provinces are NOT federations. In a federation, regional interests must be balanced with popular interests. I know as a populist you don't like that idea, but that's the way every single federation or subdivided unitary state works.

However when you have Yes men appointed by and indebted too a political leader their are yes men first and representatives of a province second. Not only that when you have members of the government who can sit on business broads and Lobby government for those companies you have someone who holds too many conflict of interests too even count. They slow this country down and do nothing too help our situation. We dont need them.

[Smallc]

However when you have Yes men appointed by and indebted too a political leader their are yes men first and representatives of a province second.

And that has nothing to do with the Senate, and everything to do with Prime Ministers that abuse their positions. As for the other rules, yes, they should be changed. And as for slowing the country down, well, that's their job in some cases. As I said, as a populist, you probably don't like that, but it's the way governments have to work.

[groupeii]

Grow your population first. You westerners are worse than a scavenging dog.

[Wilber]

Population of Maritime provinces plus Newfoundland Labrador, 2.3 Million. Senators 30

Population of BC, 4.5 Million. Senators 6

This is headed nowhere good.

[eyeball]

So who will do their job if they're gone?

How about us?

[Smallc]

Population of Maritime provinces plus Newfoundland Labrador, 2.3 Million. Senators 30

Population of BC, 4.5 Million. Senators 6

You know as well as I do that a Senate is never divided by population. Also, you can't add N + L to the Maritime region, because they're too different regions....though they probably should be combined. Some of the complaining would disappear.

[Alta4ever]

Nope the only way too add Senate seats is too change the Constitution. Wont happen.

This is completely false you only have to change the constitution to removeseats. Addition of seats is possible as mulrooney did it in the 80s.

[Smallc]

No, there is a clause in the Constitution that allows for an equal number of Senators (1 or 2) to be given to each of the 4 major regions for special circumstances. To add to the number of seats permanently, constitutional change is required.