Wilders on Trial

[wyly]

While it's certainly true millions of those evil white conservative types have less open-minded views towards gays I rather doubt a sizeable number feel the appropriate remedy for their discomfort is to kill them. Likewise while some surely are less appreciative of female equality I don't think any of them would shove girls back into a burning building because they weren't dressed conservatively enough.

just as I doubt there are sizable number that feel the appropriate remedy for female equality/immodesty is to shove them into burning buildings...until 1969 homosexuality was a criminal offense which could result in up to 14yrs in prison, people who still hold that view are still alive to pass on their beliefs...

[DogOnPorch]

just as I doubt there are sizable number that feel the appropriate remedy for female equality/immodesty is to shove them into burning buildings...until 1969 homosexuality was a criminal offense which could result in up to 14yrs in prison, people who still hold that view are still alive to pass on their beliefs...

Sodomy laws haven't disappeared...just watered down and are rarely if ever enforced. For example, anal sex is legal between two adults...but not three or more. Go figure. There were also very few cases re: sodomy pre-1969...the Klippert case being the most prominent and the one that set Canadians to thinking about how unjust those laws actually were.

[Peter F]

You're a bigot who doesn't expect "brown people" to live up to the expectations you have of white people.

Well it should be easy to find the posts that I have made to lead you to this conclusion.

If you cannot find such posts then you are a liar.

You make excuses for misbehaviour of every imaginable part because you see it as your job to protect "brown people" in a paternalistic, head-patting fashion, from what you consider the unfair judgement of white people.

Bullshit! It is not I who buys the racial grouping thing; That is you - not me. You are the one who judges Brown folks

on behalf of White folks. It is you who equates the misbehaviour of a brown person as a reason White folks need to protect ourselves from Brown Folks. I have certainly criticized such racist talk. I have consistently held the position that the actions

of an individual are the actions of the individual and not the actions of the individuals race.

Of course you see that as making 'excuses' for the race your trying to tie the misbehaviour to.

So, again, you are lying.

Brown people, in your mind, are so inferior, that we have to tolerate whatever they do because they're simply incapable of meeting the standards we hold white people to.

Bullshit! Again I do not now, nor ever have, hold your racial-grouping beliefs. It is you that holds race determines behaviour/misbehavior. Not I.

The entire sentence is a concoction of yours. You made it up. There is no basis of fact to it.

You are lying.

As for me, because I ignore skin pigmentation but judge all peoples everywhere by the same standards, you're outraged and call me the bigot for not being as "tolerant" and "understanding" of the "issues" they face.

Bullshit! You do not ignore skin pigmentation at all. See Visible Minority's thread and your panic over the threat to this country's whiteness.

You are lying.

Clear enough?

Very.

[wyly]

Sodomy laws haven't disappeared...just watered down and are rarely if ever enforced. For example, anal sex is legal between two adults...but not three or more. Go figure. There were also very few cases re: sodomy pre-1969...the Klippert case being the most prominent and the one that set Canadians to thinking about how unjust those laws actually were.

and the biases against homsexuals haven't disappeared either...nor has racism...it's relatively easy for a government to change laws but very difficult to change entrenched cultural prejudice...

Edited March 15, 2010 by wyly

[Argus]

and the biases against homsexuals haven't disappeared either...nor has racism...it's relatively easy for a government to change laws but very difficult to change entrenched cultural prejudice...

Especially when we're bringing in hundreds of thousands of people with those entrenched cultural prejudices every year.

[wyly]

Especially when we're bringing in hundreds of thousands of people with those entrenched cultural prejudices every year.

which should fit them right in with conservatives...luckily what modifies cultural prejudices is education, young immigrants meld quickly with other young people and those old beliefs die off with their parents for the most part...

[DogOnPorch]

and the biases against homsexuals haven't disappeared either...nor has racism...it's relatively easy for a government to change laws but very difficult to change entrenched cultural prejudice...

...and it's going to get harder for the gay community in Canada...not easier. Expect a slide in women's rights, as well. Much of the planet is tolerent towards neither.

[wyly]

...and it's going to get harder for the gay community in Canada...not easier. Expect a slide in women's rights, as well. Much of the planet is tolerent towards neither.

the conservative generation is beginning their great die off, and the conservative immigrants coming in have little actual hold on their children, I see the evidence in my home on a regular basis, all colours of kids, all religions, all friends and no problems other than typical teenage issues...

[DogOnPorch]

the conservative generation is beginning their great die off, and the conservative immigrants coming in have little actual hold on their children, I see the evidence in my home on a regular basis, all colours of kids, all religions, all friends and no problems other than typical teenage issues...

Oh please...stop...lol.

Yeah...you're a regular McDonald's commercial, there, hombre.

[DogOnPorch]

Wilders in the UK...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMx9CbicWuM

[Oleg Bach]

Christianity never quite made it to the world in full force or form- it was hyjacked by the Romans and state-ified..the bit that did get though brought great prosperity and a measure of peace and social civility..Judaism is nice - but it like that other Jewish religion called Christianity got hyjacked by the Zionist - some of which like the concept and are not even Jewish - a banker once said to me that Judaism is a "state of mind" - I believe he meant Zionism - it's a club and a way of doing buisness.

[Argus]

the conservative generation is beginning their great die off, and the conservative immigrants coming in have little actual hold on their children, I see the evidence in my home on a regular basis, all colours of kids, all religions, all friends and no problems other than typical teenage issues...

Hmm, the boomers were the ultra liberals of their time, and now they're consercatives. You see a trend there?

I don't know many teenagers. I know a lot of people in their twenties and early thirties, though, and few of them are especially eager to embrace multiculturalism or people with "quaint" religious and social beliefs.

[bloodyminded]

Hmm, the boomers were the ultra liberals of their time, and now they're consercatives. You see a trend there?

I don't know many teenagers. I know a lot of people in their twenties and early thirties, though, and few of them are especially eager to embrace multiculturalism or people with "quaint" religious and social beliefs.

Are the baby boomers conservative?

[jbg]

I appreciate your posting the Steyn video, because once again, he exposes himself as a servile little nationalist who adores notions of Western powers ruling through force and brutality.

******************

His views on the British Empire--which was forged through arrogant brutality, force, coercion, racism, and untrammelled greed--can be heard right before the 2-minute mark in this video, and then again around the 4-minute mark.

A wonderful thing, this history of slaughter and slavery and nationalist excesses. It's all positive, in Steyn's considered view.

And how does he know this? Why, because as a ruddy-faced British youth, his teacher would point proudly to all the red areas on the map, which signified British exploitation and violence around the globe.

And the pre-colonial African, Asian and Chinese empires didn't rule through "force and brutality" and "slaughter and slavery and nationalist excesses"? And the Muslims of Nigeria and Sudan aren't in modern times ruling in a manner that makes British colonial practices look like a walk in the park?

What a sordid little dink, yes? Yes.

I'll put your personal attacks to one side as rhetoric.

Later in the video, her excoriates anti-war protesters as ridiculous--totally related to "multiculturalism," for some reason; presumably, anyone not under the deep, dark spell of multiculturalism will automatically think all Western-led wars are inherently glorious.

You know, the standard view of the shrinking little coward.

So you prefer to allow cultures that celebrate brutality and slaughter to prevail over ones that are there for every earthquake, famine or national disaster?

(For some unstated reason, tea-party protesters are absolved of all the innate sins of the protester.)

How are the tea party protesters brutal? Frankly those that ridicule the tea partyists are making a big mistake at least in our country. Tea parties had a lot to do with how we're a free country. And the ones that preferred for the King or Queen to do it for them had an option; they moved north.

Steyn is here preaching obedience to the State as a primary virtue. No doubt his teacher beat that opinion into him with a strap across his ass, in that old British martial tradition of punishing young boys' buttocks.

Sure beats schools where no one is learning.

[bloodyminded]

And the pre-colonial African, Asian and Chinese empires didn't rule through "force and brutality" and "slaughter and slavery and nationalist excesses"? And the Muslims of Nigeria and Sudan aren't in modern times ruling in a manner that makes British colonial practices look like a walk in the park?

I'm not sure how this (which I agree with, by the way) is relevant. I'm not the one extolling the virtues of theft, invasion, colonialism and murder. Mr. Steyn is.

I'll put your personal attacks to one side as rhetoric.

Steyn is actualy making a profit from crude insults and belligerent rhetoric aimed at everybody who disagrees with his view (ie the majority of people). So when Steyn is the subject, consider me here as following his illustrious lead.

So you prefer to allow cultures that celebrate brutality and slaughter to prevail over ones that are there for every earthquake, famine or national disaster?

First of all, to "prevail" doesn't necessitate imperial slaughters, surely.

Second, let's look at the recent natural disaster in Haiti. We owed them big time for any aid we gave...and in fact, I consider such aid wildly insufficient, since France, the U.S. and Canada were the ones to fuck over Haiti in the first place.

How are the tea party protesters brutal? Frankly those that ridicule the tea partyists are making a big mistake at least in our country. Tea parties had a lot to do with how we're a free country. And the ones that preferred for the King or Queen to do it for them had an option; they moved north.

I didn't say the tea party protesters were brutal. I said that I found it interesting how Steyn denigrates the ignorance of protesters (in a political fiction, by the way, that I would bet money he's making up out of whole cloth)...and yet there are certain protesters who get a free pass from him. That's because he's not writing from principle, nor even from his own beliefs...he's a partisan attack dog, pure and simple.

Well, not so pure...but definitely simple.

Edited March 20, 2010 by bloodyminded

[Argus]

Are the baby boomers conservative?

The free love generation turned into the me generation then the "greed is good" generation. Now they bitch about their high taxes just like everyone else.

[scribblet]

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2010/10/wilders_not_guilty_of_inciting.php on all count.

[Jack Weber]

Are the baby boomers conservative?

As their hair turns blue....Increasingly so,I believe...

[Argus]

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2010/10/wilders_not_guilty_of_inciting.php on all count.

That is nothing new. The Dutch Prosecutors office didn't want to try him in the first place. A panel of judges ordered a trial. So the fact the prosecutors still don't think he broke any laws is not a deciding factor. In the strange world of Dutch justice the judges not only get to order a trial against the wishes of the public prosecutor they get to decide the result.

[RNG]

That is nothing new. The Dutch Prosecutors office didn't want to try him in the first place. A panel of judges ordered a trial. So the fact the prosecutors still don't think he broke any laws is not a deciding factor. In the strange world of Dutch justice the judges not only get to order a trial against the wishes of the public prosecutor they get to decide the result.

Whatever they are doing, it is way better than our human rights tribunals. Kangaroo court anyone?

[ToadBrother]

Whatever they are doing, it is way better than our human rights tribunals. Kangaroo court anyone?

I don't find it much different. While I imagine the Dutch justice system isn't that different from ours (in both cases judges obviously have the right to overrule prosecutors), clearly this was politically-motivated. While I find Wilders a rather detestable and hate-mongering man, all this trial has done has given him the additional boost as some sort of martyr for far-right Dutch nationalism. As always, these kinds of trials ultimately do the opposite of what they intend. A guy like Wilders needs this kind of publicity. There's nothing better than being a political martyr.

[jbg]

I don't find it much different. While I imagine the Dutch justice system isn't that different from ours (in both cases judges obviously have the right to overrule prosecutors), clearly this was politically-motivated. While I find Wilders a rather detestable and hate-mongering man, all this trial has done has given him the additional boost as some sort of martyr for far-right Dutch nationalism. As always, these kinds of trials ultimately do the opposite of what they intend. A guy like Wilders needs this kind of publicity. There's nothing better than being a political martyr.

The Canadian justice system is "adversarial" whereas the Dutch and all other European continental systems are "inquisitorial". This is a huge difference inasmuch as the duty of both the defense and prosecutors is to search for the truth, not advocate for their side.

[ToadBrother]

The Canadian justice system is "adversarial" whereas the Dutch and all other European continental systems are "inquisitorial". This is a huge difference inasmuch as the duty of both the defense and prosecutors is to search for the truth, not advocate for their side.

I realize that, but still our judges do retain the right to override Crown Prosecutors, though I think it's used very sparingly. I imagine a judge could conceivably order charges reinstated, for instance.

Edited October 20, 2010 by ToadBrother