The COST of proroguing Parliament

[Smallc]

And in this case, he's protecting the men and women of the Canadian military who were being used as pawns by the radical left.

Wow, you have no problem eating up and spitting out talking points (no matter how silly they are) do you?

[ToadBrother]

Wow, you have no problem eating up and spitting out talking points (no matter how silly they are) do you?

I suspect he's one of the Tory astroturfers. The other one I heavily suspect of being an astroturfer is blueblood. Both seem to just endlessly repeat the sheer garbage coming from Tory HQ.

[William Ashley]

He could wish for the sun, moon and stars too, but he wouldn't get those any more than he would get this. Prorogation is a Reserve Power. Parliament cannot pass laws modifying Reserve Powers and Royal Prerogatives, only an amendment to the Constitution can do that. Harper, or any PM, could safely ignore such a law, since it is an unconstitutional interference with the Sovereign's powers.

Or, in simpler words, either Layton is a moron, or he's just grandstanding.

LIMIT THE PM'S ABILITY... NOT THE GGs OR QUEENS hence no constitutional issue the post of PM isn't even in the constitution.

The fact you mention this as a reserve power demostrates how fraut it is with misuse to prorogue for political reasons, as the monarch isn't suppose to show political favour and exercise their duties non partisan.

Toad you are making yourself circumspect to having any clue how the system operates more than the fantasy you've created in your mind.

Ignoring any Canadian law would be gross negligence on the part of the PM, and would be grounds for his removal from the post by parliament and the GG. The PM isn't a publically elected position. I'd rather have publically elected officials share power than delegate it to one non elected person, that is why parliament should have more say into how government operates than one unelected person hoarding powers to use for political purposes. This what makes the Queen and representatives role as non partisan all the more important. The PM lobbing reserve powers as powers of the PMO is absurd. Both the PM and PMO should be answerable to the somewhat democratically elected house of commons, reserve powers arn't the PM's perogative there is no such thing as the Prime Ministers Perogrative.

Edited January 23, 2010 by William Ashley

[blueblood]

I suspect he's one of the Tory astroturfers. The other one I heavily suspect of being an astroturfer is blueblood. Both seem to just endlessly repeat the sheer garbage coming from Tory HQ.

Yet I do not own a party membership card. It's not that I love the tories, it's that I despise the Liberals and NDP and their garbage policies.

That would be like me calling you a Liberal astroturfer. So you get to repeat "garbage" coming out of the Liberal war room, and berate people who don't like the left wing parties, sounds like a do as I say not as I do. Politics is a two way street, somebody has to show the other side.

[ToadBrother]

LIMIT THE PM'S ABILITY... NOT THE GGs OR QUEENS hence no constitutional issue the post of PM isn't even in the constitution.

The fact you mention this as a reserve power demostrates how fraut it is with misuse to prorogue for political reasons, as the monarch isn't suppose to show political favour and exercise their duties non partisan.

You know, it's like dealing with people who have cotton in their ears. It's a Reserve Power, and therefore, save only in the most extraordinary situations, is done by the Sovereign or the Vice-Regal In Council. That means on the advice of the Prime Minister for those that are a little slow to the punch. That cannot be modified without constitutional amendment.

I suspect Layton's excuse for ignoring that. What's yours?

[ToadBrother]

Yet I do not own a party membership card. It's not that I love the tories, it's that I despise the Liberals and NDP and their garbage policies.

That would be like me calling you a Liberal astroturfer. So you get to repeat "garbage" coming out of the Liberal war room, and berate people who don't like the left wing parties, sounds like a do as I say not as I do. Politics is a two way street, somebody has to show the other side.

What things have I repeated from the Liberal warroom. Being a political junky, I've made it my business to know how our system works, so I'm not just some slackjawed moron aping talking points. You'll note I've not called for anything idiotic like trying to change the PM's ability to advise the GG to prorogue Parliament, so I'm afraid your attempt to paint me as your alter ego is misguided.

I don't hate any of them, particularly, or rather I think they're all equally distrustworthy. The 2008 prorogation was an abuse of process, pure and simple.

[Argus]

Um, Parliament was prorogued in December. The recess is lasting until the beginning of March. Maybe you don't know what prorogation is either.

Let's say that it never happened. What, exactly, would be different now? What would have happened that did not happen?

Answer - nothing. They were scheduled to go on break, and went out at that time. They would still be out on break had Harper not prorogued parliament. All the proroguing did was add a month of blessed quiet where the opposition and government can't voice scripted insults and mock indignation at each other across the aisle. Boohoo. I'm all broken up about that.

[nicky10013]

Yet I do not own a party membership card. It's not that I love the tories, it's that I despise the Liberals and NDP and their garbage policies.

That would be like me calling you a Liberal astroturfer. So you get to repeat "garbage" coming out of the Liberal war room, and berate people who don't like the left wing parties, sounds like a do as I say not as I do. Politics is a two way street, somebody has to show the other side.

If you hate garbage "Liberal" policies you must have hated the first 3 Tory budgets.

[William Ashley]

You know, it's like dealing with people who have cotton in their ears. It's a Reserve Power, and therefore, save only in the most extraordinary situations, is done by the Sovereign or the Vice-Regal In Council. That means on the advice of the Prime Minister for those that are a little slow to the punch. That cannot be modified without constitutional amendment.

I suspect Layton's excuse for ignoring that. What's yours?

Are you blind? The PM is not the GG limiting the PM's supposed powers is not limiting the PM's powers. Comprendo?

[CANADIEN]

I'm willing to be none of you even know what prorogue meant a month ago, and certainly couldn't spell it to save your life.

Interesting, isn't it, that you use prorogue a a noun, when it is actually a verb (the word being prorogation)?

In fact, it's fairly clear you STILL don't know what it means. The fact parliament is not sitting does not stop the government from governing, as evidence the numerous decisions made in the last month. Btw, for all you people and your snivelling about democracy being suspended, the prorogue hasn't actually had any affect yet. Yes, that's right. They are still on their traditional winter break. The prorogue has not actually STARTED yet!

You obviously don't know what you are talking about. The parliamentary session ceased the moment the prorogation decree was signed by the Governor General. No amount of "oh but they were on vacation anyway" will change that fact.

Nor will it change the fact that, as a result of the government action, ALL bills presented during the session and not signed into law will have to be resubmitted. Most importantly, the government is hiding from one of its responsibilities in our Parliamentary system - standing in the House of Commons to answer questions from Members of the House of Commons. OUR ELECTED members of Commons. Our elcted Parliament has been prevented from doing its job not only during an extended holiday period, as is customs, but until the government feels like owing up to its obligations to Parliament. Feel free to make a fool of yourself with assinine comments like "they were not going back until the end of January anyway".

Now, I am not one to call the government's decision undemocratic. What I will call it an insult to Parliament. Most importantly, I call the way it should be called - the coeardly action of a government that cannot stand to be questioned or face scrutiiny in Parliament.

Edited January 23, 2010 by CANADIEN

[CANADIEN]

Nothing would have changed, Argus? Oh really?

Let's see...

1) bills that have died in Parliament as a result of prorogation would still be standing, and the whole work would not have to be done again

2) the Government would not have shown its cowardise.

Guess prorogation was a good thing after all.

Edited January 23, 2010 by CANADIEN

[Argus]

Nothing would have changed, Argus? Oh really?

Let's see...

1) bills that have died in Parliament as a result of prorogation would still be standing, and the whole work would not have to be done again

The bills would not have moved a single inch closer to being made law since Parliament would not have been sitting regardless.

In any event, virtually all those bills will be re-introduced and fast-tracked through unanimous consent to the point they were at when parliament dissolved. They always are. There is the possiblity the Opposition will prevent this in order to impress dullards, but it's hard to see how they can explain why they want to hold hearings and debates on a bill they already held hearings and debates on three months earlier.

2) the Government would not have shown its cowardise.

The government was under no particular pressure prior to the holiday. The somewhat desperate attempt of the opposition to dig up dirt about the AFghan mission was not resonating with the public, who were underwhelmed with MPs who showed frantic dedication to the protection of Afghan terrorists but none for the well-being of Canadian soldiers.

Guess prorogation was a good thing after all.

The only propaganda on this issue has been anti-prorogation so I guess it did work - on you anyway.

[CANADIEN]

The government was under no particular pressure prior to the holiday. The somewhat desperate attempt of the opposition to dig up dirt about the AFghan mission was not resonating with the public, who were underwhelmed with MPs who showed frantic dedication to the protection of Afghan terrorists but none for the well-being of Canadian soldiers.

Which is why the Government has been in hiding from questions. As I said, the one good thing about this prorogation is that it exposes the cowardly side of the current Government.

[Smallc]

The bills would not have moved a single inch closer to being made law since Parliament would not have been sitting regardless.

No, but in this case, they moved farther away...as in they died.

[Wilber]

The bills would not have moved a single inch closer to being made law since Parliament would not have been sitting regardless.

Not so, all those bills that had been passed by the Commons and were before the Senate are also dead.

[Argus]

No, but in this case, they moved farther away...as in they died.

Never fear. They will be resurected by Easter!

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Never fear. They will be resurected by Easter!

You had better hope so Argus. If they are not Harper will have a lot of egg on his face.

[Wilber]

Never fear. They will be resurected by Easter!

Really, there were some government bills that were either before the Commons or the Senate that I wanted to see passed. Now I wonder whether they will ever come to be. They are gone and will have to be resurrected by a government that has weakened itself by this bone headed move, before an opposition that will now be more aggressive because of it. The issue of Afghan prisoners had little traction with the public and will still be there when Parliament resumes so instead he handed them one that does on a silver platter. Harper has no one to blame but himself for this.

Edited January 24, 2010 by Wilber

[Smallc]

Really, there were some government bills that were either before the Commons or the Senate that I wanted to see passed.

Not to mention those bills that only needed the Governor General to give assent.

[ToadBrother]

Are you blind? The PM is not the GG limiting the PM's supposed powers is not limiting the PM's powers. Comprendo?

You clearly do not know what "in council" means. But to anyone with even a modicum of understanding of how our constitution has worked for a few centuries now, the meaning is clear.