Canadian Political Polls

[Smallc]

Maybe not, but they will be. They'll be damned by both sides, no matter which way any individuals vote.

What's even worse is that there'll be a ton of behind the scenes arm-twisting, much of which will be based on 'good of the party' arguments (as opposed to 'what your constituents want')

That's probably why so many NDP members have been switching their votes. I'm starting to think that by the 11th, there will be enough votes for the registry to survive.

[nicky10013]

What do you mean by "principles"?

The NDP have urban and rural members who line up on both sides of this issue.Even Andrew Coyne said last night on the At Issue panel that Layton and the NDP should'nt be vilified for allowing members to vote their conscience...

Frankly, it was just a joke to rile up punked.

[nicky10013]

That's probably why so many NDP members have been switching their votes. I'm starting to think that by the 11th, there will be enough votes for the registry to survive.

Yup. A big shift in the urban vote could render some interesting individuals in the NDP caucus vulnerable. I doubt Jack Layton would be in trouble, but Olivia Chow is always under threat from whatever Liberal running in Trinity-Spadina.

[Smallc]

Yup. A big shift in the urban vote could render some interesting individuals in the NDP caucus vulnerable. I doubt Jack Layton would be in trouble, but Olivia Chow is always under threat from whatever Liberal running in Trinity-Spadina.

Oh, it's not just that. If the registry survives, the NDP will put many seats in danger in rural Canada. The Conservatives will benefit. If it dies, they'll risk losing many urban seats to the Liberals. Not so good for them, I don't think.

Edited September 11, 2010 by Smallc

[nicky10013]

Oh, it's not just that. If the registry survives, the NDP will put many seats in danger in rural Canada. The Conservatives will benefit. If it dies, they'll risk losing many urban seats to the Liberals. Not so good for them, I don't think.

I know. I also read an article in the Globe and Mail saying that if the Conservatives end up winning the vote, they'll end up losing in the long run. Their biggest means of soliciting donations has been sending out 10%ers trumpeting hatred for the gun registry. If they lose the registry they'll lose a big money-making machine. It's easy to speculate that they'll come up with an easy issue, but there really isn't an issue that's as polarizing as this one.

[Evening Star]

Oh, it's not just that. If the registry survives, the NDP will put many seats in danger in rural Canada. The Conservatives will benefit. If it dies, they'll risk losing many urban seats to the Liberals. Not so good for them, I don't think.

I dunno, do you think this issue is crucial enough to urban voters that they will switch allegiances because of it? AFAIK, the NDP has always been split this way on gun control, right? I'm an urban NDP voter, federally, and I lean towards supporting the registry, though I'll be the first to admit both that it's not the most important issue to me and that I am not extremely knowledgeable about it. It would be one thing if my MP was to vote against the registry but I sure as hell wouldn't change my vote just because Jack Layton allowed his rural caucus to vote against the registry if they wanted to. (Honestly, even my own MP's vote on this one issue would probably not be enough to get me to vote Liberal, especially considering that the NDP has owned my riding for the past decade anyway.)

[bloodyminded]

That's probably why so many NDP members have been switching their votes. I'm starting to think that by the 11th, there will be enough votes for the registry to survive.

NDP popularity waxes and wanes. But unless and until the Liberals move noticeably leftward, or another leftist party gains momentum, the NDP will never dissolve. If you look at their numbers, and then add in those who would prefer them but vote out of practicality (ie to keep the Conservatives out), leftish citizens are not a trivial portion of the population. Arguably, there are more leftists than there are conservatives.

[Keepitsimple]

Call me contrarian but I still think this will be a test for Ignatieff - not of his leadership, which regardless is suspect - but of the current solidarity of the Liberal Party. I predict that the vote will pass because a few Liberals don't show up.

[punked]

Still think the Gun registry will die because 3-8 Liberals don't show because they have the Norwalk or something of the sort. End of story then they blame the NDP.

[Jack Weber]

Frankly, it was just a joke to rile up punked.

Ok then....

Well played!!

[nicky10013]

Ok then....

Well played!!

Was it well executed? Probably not. However, I suppose the internet is probably the last place one should expect tone to come across properly.

[capricorn]

Call me contrarian but I still think this will be a test for Ignatieff - not of his leadership, which regardless is suspect - but of the current solidarity of the Liberal Party. I predict that the vote will pass because a few Liberals don't show up.

Ignatieff is in a beggin' mood.

Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff is issuing a plea to the N-D-P to save the long gun registry.

Ignatieff made the last minute pitch Saturday while on the last leg of his Liberal Express tour near Sudbury, Ont.

M-Ps will vote on a private member's bill proposing to scrap the registry later this month and at least some N-D-P votes will be needed to defeat it.

Ignatieff urged N-D-P leader Jack Layton to vote to keep the registry because he said police forces want it.

http://www.680news.com/news/national/article/100328--ignatieff-implores-ndp-to-save-long-gun-registry

This, after accusing Layton and the NDP of having "No Darn Principles".

Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff says the NDP will stand for “no darn principles” if leader Jack Layton and the New Democrats fail to support the long-gun registry in a crucial vote this fall in Parliament.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/854605--support-long-gun-registry-or-ndp-has-no-darn-principles-ignatieff-tells-layton

Betcha he doesn't feel so clever now over those comments.

[nicky10013]

Ignatieff is in a beggin' mood.

http://www.680news.com/news/national/article/100328--ignatieff-implores-ndp-to-save-long-gun-registry

This, after accusing Layton and the NDP of having "No Darn Principles".

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/854605--support-long-gun-registry-or-ndp-has-no-darn-principles-ignatieff-tells-layton

Betcha he doesn't feel so clever now over those comments.

I'd actually like to hear the sound clip. Doubt he was begging. Also love the quotation marks around the word implore to make it sounds as if he were. I guess we shouldn't doubt the authors though, CFRB is only one of the most conservative radio stations in Ontario.....oh wait...

[capricorn]

I'd actually like to hear the sound clip. Doubt he was begging. Also love the quotation marks around the word implore to make it sounds as if he were. I guess we shouldn't doubt the authors though, CFRB is only one of the most conservative radio stations in Ontario.....oh wait...

The "authors" of what 680 posted on their news site, minus the headline, is The Canadian Press.

By the way, CFRB is not 680.

Edited September 11, 2010 by capricorn

[nicky10013]

The "authors" of what 680 posted on their news site, minus the headline, is The Canadian Press.

By the way, CFRB is not 680.

Whoops, my bad. From the crap I hear on all of 640, 680, 1010, they're all the same. Furthermore, the headline is exactly what makes this article sound like he's begging.

[capricorn]

From the crap I hear on all of 640, 680, 1010, they're all the same.

For you to know that, you must be an avid listener.

[nicky10013]

For you to know that, you must be an avid listener.

Unfortunately my father is.

[capricorn]

I'd actually like to hear the sound clip. Doubt he was begging. Also love the quotation marks around the word implore to make it sounds as if he were.

Well, it looks like he did in fact "implore" the NDP and the 680 news headline was correct all along.

"I implore the NDP, even at this late hour to show some sense and leadership and line up because right now they’re lined up with Stephen Harper against the police," said Ignatieff.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/Canada/1201312.html

[bloodyminded]

Harper and Layton one one side...Ignatieff and the police on the other?

Oh, Iggy, Iggy.

[Pliny]

.... What is this 'special interest groups' stuff actually supposed to mean? People use the words, but seem to intend them to mean 'everyone who disagrees with me on any subject'. How else should we define the term?

Perhaps the 'special interest groups' are actually the ones who want to end the long-gun registry and the long-form census.

That would teach us that special interest groups are devoted to ideology instead of information, and tells us how frightened some people are of informed, pragmatic governance.

Although there are a lot of people who wish to see the long-gun registry gone and perceive it as ineffective, superfluous and an unnecessary expense they are not an organized group. They are citizens who view it that way. Likewise, there is not an organized group wishing to end the long-form census nor do I believe there is one wishing to keep it. Right now individuals have to listen to the pros and cons. An interest group may form later.

The gun lobby wishing to end the long-gun registry would be a special interest but that is not the entirety of their interest. They are an organized group and members or people that support their cause would benefit.

Special interest groups are recognized organizations that lobby both government for legislation and the electorate for the support of their interests.

The gun lobby as a special interest is actually attempting to keep government from too much regulation on guns. Their "benefit" may not be perceived as a benefit by others but as a danger to the "common good".

The gun control lobby as a special interest wants laws and restrictions, all manner of regulation and, ideally, want nobody to have a gun. Their perceived benefit is safety and security and for the common good of society.

Women, unions, corporations, industries, gays, and the myriad other groups that lobby for money and support for their causes are special interest groups.

Most of them I am against because they are about favour and privilege for themselves at the cost of someone else.

[punked]

Harper and Layton one one side...Ignatieff and the police on the other?

Oh, Iggy, Iggy.

Remind me how Layton is going to vote. You seem to be Lying.

[nicky10013]

Remind me how Layton is going to vote. You seem to be Lying.

Despite how he's voting, he's still not whipping the vote. Looks like Harper is in bed with socialists. Just like how Harper was in bed with Layton on EI. Seems to me there's a conservative-socialist coalition.

Edited September 12, 2010 by nicky10013

[bloodyminded]

Remind me how Layton is going to vote. You seem to be Lying.

I think you misunderstood (not that there's much meat to my post, granted).

I was laughing at Iggy's comment, not at Layton.

[punked]

Despite how he's voting, he's still not whipping the vote. Looks like Harper is in bed with socialists. Just like how Harper was in bed with Layton on EI. Seems to me there's a conservative-socialist coalition.

Don't worry we will see some Liberals break with their party. You seem to think there is more leadership there then there really is.

[capricorn]

You seem to think there is more leadership there then there really is.

You could say there is more leadership there because the Liberal Party has two leaders, Ignatieff and Rae.