Harper to prorogue parliament AGAIN?

[ToadBrother]

Well you said they needed to spend time in their constituencies or are you unaware of just how much time is spent by MPs in Ottawa, I have yet to meet anyone who can be in two places at once.

They have these things called constituency offices, and they are given a rather generous fly-home benefit. But I doubt, to be honest, that you're being serious. But it's hard to know with partisans. Some people wear their favorite team on their chests, and some people seem to shove it deep into their craniums.

[nicky10013]

In three weeks the liberals and the NDp will be whining about something else, in fact I'm sure it will be as soon as Harper appoints new senators to fill the vacancies.

And I thought he wouldn't appoint anyone until the body was reformed. I'll say it again, hypocrite and a liar.

[Alta4ever]

They have these things called constituency offices, and they are given a rather generous fly-home benefit. But I doubt, to be honest, that you're being serious. But it's hard to know with partisans. Some people wear their favorite team on their chests, and some people seem to shove it deep into their craniums.

How many people can they talk to between late friday night and sunday night and spend a least an hour with the family?

Do you live in Reality because a vast majority of the Mps live beyond driving distance of Ottawa. some mps have hours loong flights only to have to drive a couple of hours once they get off the jet.

[nicky10013]

Funny how this poll lists 65% of Canadians either aren't following this story or are not following it closely.

A better stat is the 70% including 35% of COnservatives who believe this thing is undemocratic.

[Alta4ever]

And I thought he wouldn't appoint anyone until the body was reformed. I'll say it again, hypocrite and a liar.

Well since the then liberal dominated senate couldn't pass a two paragraph bill to reform it, I guess when it is re-introduced now a CPC dominated senate will.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Alta4ever

[ToadBrother]

How many people can they talk to between late friday night and sunday night and spend a least an hour with the family?

Do you live in Reality because a vast majority of the Mps live beyond driving distance of Ottawa. some mps have hours loong flights only to have to drive a couple of hours once they get off the jet.

Well, perhaps we should reconstitute Parliament like the Chinese assembly. You know, meet once a year or maybe every couple of years. After all, it's not like MPs ever have the balls to say "f--- you" to the leaders, unless, of course, those leaders are crashing and burning (rather reminds me of the amusing story of Beria's reaction when he thought Stalin had died, but I digress). I mean, that's just about how much importance you and your Tory cronies seem to give to Parliament.

[wyly]

My observation is that, at the end of the day, people declare the polls that most reflect their own biases as true, and those that go against them as false.

that's true but Nanos has had past instance of being horribly wrong on some polls, so now when I hear it's a Nanos poll I don't take it seriously...

[Alta4ever]

that's true but Nanos has had past instance of being horribly wrong on some polls, so now when I hear it's a Nanos poll I don't take it seriously...

do you have a cite?

[Alta4ever]

that's true but Nanos has had past instance of being horribly wrong on some polls, so now when I hear it's a Nanos poll I don't take it seriously...

In the last election Nanos was 2% off on the CPC vote percentage and a fraction of a % off the other parties vote percentage

Edited January 7, 2010 by Alta4ever

[Alta4ever]

Well, perhaps we should reconstitute Parliament like the Chinese assembly. You know, meet once a year or maybe every couple of years. After all, it's not like MPs ever have the balls to say "f--- you" to the leaders, unless, of course, those leaders are crashing and burning (rather reminds me of the amusing story of Beria's reaction when he thought Stalin had died, but I digress). I mean, that's just about how much importance you and your Tory cronies seem to give to Parliament.

So 23 days they miss, they will still be sitting 118 days, hardly the extreme you seem to think it is.

[Riverwind]

A better stat is the 70% including 35% of COnservatives who believe this thing is undemocratic.

The poll asked whether people agreed with the decision. The answers say absolutely nothing about whether people believed the decision was democratic or not.

I have noticed that political partisans of all stripes are quick to label the use of constitutionally legimate parlimentary procedures as 'undemocratic' when these procedures are inconvenient for them. I am fairly certain that none of the people complaining today had a problem with the 'undemocratic' formation of a coalition government a year ago.

[Alta4ever]

A better stat is the 70% including 35% of COnservatives who believe this thing is undemocratic.

Prorogation

As you may know, Prime Minister Stephen Harper has prorogued Parliament, that is, suspended all

activities and delayed the return of MPs and Senators. Have you followed this story in the media?

Political Allegiance

Total Con Lib NDP BQ Grn

Yes, very closely 11% 10% 22% 17% 14% 8%

Yes, moderately closely 23% 26% 30% 22% 26% 39%

Yes, but not too closely 31% 40% 27% 43% 22% 28%

No, I have not followed this story at all 34% 24% 21% 18% 39% 26%

Looks like that other then the liberal party (4% difference) The majority of each of the other parties doesn't seem to think this topic warrants much attention since they either aren't following it closely or are even following it at all.

[nicky10013]

Looks like that other then the liberal party (4% difference) The majority of each of the other parties doesn't seem to think this topic warrants much attention since they either aren't following it closely or are even following it at all.

From the Globe and Mail

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/blogs/bureau-blog/prorogation-has-hit-a-nerve/article1422003/

Most Canadians are aware that the Prime Minister has suspended Parliament until after the winter Olympics and they are, by and large, not pleased with the decision, polls released Thursday suggest.

Although there was strong suspicion among pundits and Parliament watchers that Canadians would pay little attention to the prorogation announced by Stephen Harper’s office, two-thirds of respondents to an EKOS poll this week said they knew about the move – 52 per cent of them saying they were “clearly aware.”

And, among those who said they know that Parliament will not sit again until early March, the margin of disapproval is two to one.

“This has morphed out of dusty constitutional law texts into the mainstream of public opinion,” EKOS president Frank Graves said. “The public decisively say they are familiar with this and, when you go on to find out what they think about it, they’re opposed and they tend to concentrate in the strongly opposed category.”

Nearly two-thirds of the 1,744 respondents to the EKOS poll agreed with the statement: “The elected House of Parliament is the proper place to conduct the business of the nation and suspending Parliament is antidemocratic.”

The Conservatives have given the opposition a two-month opportunity to attack the government without leaving themselves much or an opportunity to change the page, Mr. Graves said.

Meanwhile, an Angus Reid online poll also released Thursday suggests prorogation has been rejected even by Conservative supporters. Thirty-five per cent of respondents who voted Conservative in the last election said they disagree with the decision to suspend Parliament.

Not surprisingly, the move was panned even more decisively by supporters of the opposition parties.

Across the country, 53 per cent of the 1,019 respondents to the Angus Reid poll said they disagreed with prorogation. That compares to the 19 per cent who said they supported it. About 28 per cent were undecided.

The rejection of the decision to suspend Parliament was highest in Ontario (59 per cent) and lowest in the Prairies (50 per cent in Alberta, 48 per cent in Manitoba and Saskatchewan).

Two in five Canadians who took part in the Angus Reid poll said they believe prorogation was invoked in order to curtail an inquiry into the treatment of Afghan detainees. About one quarter of respondents (23 per cent) agreed with the federal government’s position that prorogation was necessary to recalibrate, consult and deliver the next stage of the economic plan.

The EKOS poll also suggests the issue has eroded the strong base of Conservative support that has, at times in the past year, seen the party skirt majority territory.

Just 33.1 per cent of respondents said they would mark their ballots for the Conservatives if the election were held this week.

While close to the margin of error, that’s a drop of 2.8 per cent since December. And it means the Tory lead over the Liberals, which was as high as 15 percentage points in October, is now about 5.

“Those are the worst numbers we’ve seen for them in at least six months,” said Mr. Graves.

“It’s very difficult to attribute it to anything other than prorogation because it was a period when nothing much else was happening.”

The drop for the Tories suggested in the EKOS poll has not been a boon to the other parties. The Liberals climbed by just 1.1 per cent to 27.8 per cent in voter support. The NDP actually fell a little to 16 per cent. The Bloc Quebecois remained virtually unchanged at 9.8 per cent. And the Greens saw a slight increase of 2.2 per cent, which brought them to 13.4 per cent.

But Mr. Graves said the numbers suggest that Canadians know what prorogation means and are not happy about it. And the Conservatives should be worried.

“Clearly this has hit a nerve,” he said.

Mr. Harper and his party “must be hearing footsteps,” the pollster said. “Instead of pondering how their majority is going to work out, they are closer to sitting on the other side of the House.”

A poll of this size is expected to reflect the opinions of all Canadians within 2.4 percentage points 19 times in 20.

It suggests that support for the Conservatives is once again spiralling downward in Quebec, where just under 15 per cent of respondents said they would vote for Mr. Harper’s party. EKOS attributes that to three factors: the detainee issue (as well as broader opposition to the Afghanistan mission), disappointment with the perceived tepid federal performance on the climate change file, and lingering fallout from the gun registry.

But their troubles don’t stop there. They have also lost their double digit lead in Ontario and the poll suggests that the Liberals are ahead in Ontario for the first time in several months.

Edited January 7, 2010 by nicky10013

[Alta4ever]

From the Globe and Mail

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/blogs/bureau-blog/prorogation-has-hit-a-nerve/article1422003/

Most Canadians are aware that the Prime Minister has suspended Parliament until after the winter Olympics and they are, by and large, not pleased with the decision, polls released Thursday suggest.

Did you read the report

its says

Q. [if aware of Stephen Harper’s decision to prorogue Parliament] Do you support or oppose Stephen Harper’s decision to prorogue Parliament until early March?

So that means the 41% that strongly opposed were only of the 67% that new of the issue. so whats 41% of 67% 0.41*67=27.47% are opposed

Edited January 7, 2010 by Alta4ever

[nicky10013]

From the Globe and Mail

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/blogs/bureau-blog/prorogation-has-hit-a-nerve/article1422003/

Most Canadians are aware that the Prime Minister has suspended Parliament until after the winter Olympics and they are, by and large, not pleased with the decision, polls released Thursday suggest.

My point exactly.

[Alta4ever]

ame='Alta4ever' date='07 January 2010 - 07:12 PM' timestamp='1262907879' post='497797']

My point exactly.

go back and re read it, I hit the post button before it was done. It has been edited.

[JB Globe]

Let's not forget guys like Andrew Coyne, who always seems to lean to the right. He's just about the most pissed of at all, and the inspiration of my rereading a bit of history on Charles I's similar attitudes towards Parliament.

Coyne is conservative but he's not a party-hack who drank too much Kool-Aid and takes Harper's talking points LITERALLY at face value.

He understands that in some cases, it's best to oppose your guy when he's doing something really bad, in an effort to get him to change course before he brings the whole ship down with him.

He also cares more about Parliamentary democracy in this country than he does Harper's own self-interest.

[JB Globe]

Posted before I saw another post that said the exact same thing, whoops.

Edited January 8, 2010 by JB Globe

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Posted before I saw another post that said the exact same thing, whoops.

Looks like most Canadians don't like this action after reading the latest poll.

[Alta4ever]

Looks like most Canadians don't like this action after reading the latest poll.

I guess this needs to be reposted for both yours and others benefit.

Did you read the report

its says

Quote

Q. [if aware of Stephen Harper’s decision to prorogue Parliament] Do you support or oppose Stephen Harper’s decision to prorogue Parliament until early March?

So that means the 41% that strongly opposed were only of the 67% that new of the issue. so whats 41% of 67% 0.41*67=27.47% are opposed

http://www.scribd.com/doc/24917646/EKOS-prorogation-report-January-7-2010

Edited January 8, 2010 by Alta4ever

[nicky10013]

I guess this needs to be reposted for both yours and others benefit.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/24917646/EKOS-prorogation-report-January-7-2010

You've got to do that little arithmetic to the pro-roguers as well.

Furthermore, the people who say they are aware are also probably the likely voters. You can disregard the "I don't know-ers" because they probably won't vote anyways. Either way, it's a terrible picture for the Conservatives and their die hard supporters like you.

Edited January 8, 2010 by nicky10013

[Alta4ever]

You've got to do that little arithmetic to the pro-roguers as well.

So you don't dispute that when the numbers are actually looked at only 27% actually care that parliament was prorogued.

[nicky10013]

So you don't dispute that when the numbers are actually looked at only 27% actually care that parliament was prorogued.

I do, I just find it hilarious that you're holding the poll accountable, but only half the poll.

[Alta4ever]

I do, I just find it hilarious that you're holding the poll accountable, but only half the poll.

Ekos itself is holding only half the poll accountable do I need to bold it for since you seem to be incapable of reading.

[if aware of Stephen Harper’s decision to prorogue Parliament] Do you support or oppose Stephen Harper’s decision to prorogue Parliament until early March?

Right here ekos removes 41% of the respondents

Edited January 8, 2010 by Alta4ever

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Ekos itself is only holding the half the poll accountable do I need to bold it for since you seem to be incapable of reading.

[if aware of Stephen Harper’s decision to prorogue Parliament] Do you support or oppose Stephen Harper’s decision to prorogue Parliament until early March?

Right here ekos removes 41% of the respondents

You folks know how this works. The question is designed to provide the desired answer. What the poll means is that of the people who actually give a damn enough to be aware of whats going, that a large majority of those folks did not approve.