Shady Posted December 21, 2009 Report Posted December 21, 2009 Spare me, you sound like a 19th-century colonialist who was just 'helping' the poor little helpless brown and black people around the world by robbing them of their natural resources. Complete strawman. Espousing freedom now is in no way comparable to what some 19th-century colonialist might have done 200 years ago. Oh, and Freedom is earned. No. Freedom is a human right. Somehow I doubt any Western nation would've embraced freedom if it was forced on them through shock and awe by some external force. Well then you doubt history. Because some Western nation's did need force to enforce the ideals of freedom. 1) Freedom forced on a nation at the end of the barrel of a gun is not the same thing as fighting for that right from within. But what if the population yearning for freedom doesn't have the power to fight back its oppressor? 2) Just like the colonialists of times gone by, Stop bringing up your colonialist strawman. Quote
bloodyminded Posted December 21, 2009 Report Posted December 21, 2009 Well, I guess we can apply that principle to Arab's as well. Perhaps the results of the several wars initiated by them on Israel over the past 60 years has resulted in the situation they now find themselves in. And since Israel's behavior because of it was easily predictable, the Arab and Muslim countries involved, are ultimately responsible for the plight of the Palestinian's and the area as a whole. Even if I agreed with you...this sounds like nothing more than a concession on your part, albeit with a note of petulance. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Shady Posted December 21, 2009 Report Posted December 21, 2009 Even if I agreed with you Why wouldn't you agree with me? It's your premise. Quote
bloodyminded Posted December 21, 2009 Report Posted December 21, 2009 Why wouldn't you agree with me? It's your premise. Well, no, it's not my premise that all the evils of the I-P conflict are completely the fault of the Palestinians. However, it does appear that you are agreeing with me. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Shady Posted December 21, 2009 Report Posted December 21, 2009 Well, no, it's not my premise that all the evils of the I-P conflict are completely the fault of the Palestinians. However, it does appear that you are agreeing with me. My premise wasn't that all the evil of the I-P conflict are completely the fault of the Palestinians. I was just applying your premise to their situation. Just as I imagine that you don't believe that all the evil of the Iraq war is completely the fault of the US/UK. Quote
bloodyminded Posted December 21, 2009 Report Posted December 21, 2009 My premise wasn't that all the evil of the I-P conflict are completely the fault of the Palestinians. I was just applying your premise to their situation. Just as I imagine that you don't believe that all the evil of the Iraq war is completely the fault of the US/UK. The analogy doesn't work. One is an historical conflict, quite old, and much of it about land. The other was a country choosing to to attack a state, and within months performing that task. I don't see them as at all the same. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 22, 2009 Report Posted December 22, 2009 The analogy doesn't work. One is an historical conflict, quite old, and much of it about land. The other was a country choosing to to attack a state, and within months performing that task. I don't see them as at all the same. No...the analogy is fine if "historical" conflict be your game. Iraq was invaded, sanctioned, strangled, and attacked numerous times during the period 1991 - 2002. The invasion of 2003 involved several nations and existing policy. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bloodyminded Posted December 22, 2009 Report Posted December 22, 2009 No...the analogy is fine if "historical" conflict be your game. Iraq was invaded, sanctioned, strangled, and attacked numerous times during the period 1991 - 2002. The invasion of 2003 involved several nations and existing policy. Let's be clear, then: you beliueve that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is accurately analogous with the war on Iraq? Just to clarify the parameters here. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 22, 2009 Report Posted December 22, 2009 Let's be clear, then: you beliueve that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is accurately analogous with the war on Iraq? Just to clarify the parameters here. With regard to existing historical enmity....yes. Other parameters are on/off point to varying degrees. Your characterization of the "war on Iraq" is devoid of such context for reasons only known to you. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bloodyminded Posted December 22, 2009 Report Posted December 22, 2009 With regard to existing historical enmity....yes. Other parameters are on/off point to varying degrees. Your characterization of the "war on Iraq" is devoid of such context for reasons only known to you. No, I understand the context. In fact, I accept it in your rough sketch earlier. It still has nothing whatsoever in common with the I-P conflict. If everything is analogous, then there are no analogies. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
ironstone Posted December 22, 2009 Report Posted December 22, 2009 You're completely entitled to opinion, though I will humbly disagree. IMO, there is a direct and linear correlation between the amount of information that is available to the public and the (lack of) support for a war. I brought up Vietnam earlier... compare that to WWI, WWII, vs. Iraq. You'll see a steady decline with the amount of information that is available. Before TV, there was almost complete support for almost all wars. By the time TV was completely proliferated in every household (Vietnam), dissent had started. By the time internet came around, support was pretty much 50/50. You'll also note that in present day totalitarian regimes where information is limited, nationalism is still prevalent. Sure, there will always be people who buy into any type of violence if you make it an 'us' vs. 'them'... but the more information people have available to them, the more the independent thinkers can say 'nah, I don't buy it, you say this, but with my own eyes I see something else.' I wonder how much public opinion would change if people the world over actually got their information from COMPLETELY unbiased news sources.By that I mean,actual reporting of ALL the cold,hard facts as they are and not the censored,put our own left/right spin on the story stuff we mainly get now. Quote Beware the Brookfield industrial complex...
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 22, 2009 Report Posted December 22, 2009 No, I understand the context. In fact, I accept it in your rough sketch earlier. How convenient.....you can offer unsubstantiated claims and retreat at will. It still has nothing whatsoever in common with the I-P conflict. If everything is analogous, then there are no analogies. Analogs come in many shapes and sizes. That Israel is involved in both conflicts begins to unravel your refusal to accept the obvious. I'm beginning to see a myopic trend in your analysis of such interrelated matters. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bloodyminded Posted December 22, 2009 Report Posted December 22, 2009 (edited) How convenient.....you can offer unsubstantiated claims and retreat at will. ?? Accepting your brief sketch of the Iraq situation is which? An unsubstantiated claim, or a retreat? If it's unsubstantiated, then you are saying you were wrong. If it's a retreat, it's an odd one, since I never expressed disagreement with it in the first place. I think you aren't too friendly. But no big deal. Analogs come in many shapes and sizes. That Israel is involved in both conflicts begins to unravel your refusal to accept the obvious. I'm beginning to see a myopic trend in your analysis of such interrelated matters. Perhaps you'd like to be more clear, if you'd sonner have a discussion than fuish around for unspecified debating "points." So, what is this "obvious" that I refuse to accept? And what is my "myopic trend"? Edited December 22, 2009 by bloodyminded Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 22, 2009 Report Posted December 22, 2009 ?? Accepting your brief sketch of the Iraq situation is which? An unsubstantiated claim, or a retreat? Retreat...definitely a retreat from the more simple minded single nation "war on Iraq". I think you aren't too friendly. But no big deal. If you need a friend...get a dog. Perhaps you'd like to be more clear, if you'd sonner have a discussion than fuish around for unspecified debating "points." So, what is this "obvious" that I refuse to accept? And what is my "myopic trend"? Now you are just being obtuse....but here is a hint: What do Katyusha rockets and SCUD missiles have in common? Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bloodyminded Posted December 22, 2009 Report Posted December 22, 2009 Retreat...definitely a retreat from the more simple minded single nation "war on Iraq". Good lord, man. i know you pretend to think you're smarter than everyone else, but think for a moment: you beleive I was unaware of the first Gulf War, the sanctions, Weapons inspectors, no-fly zones, etc? I mean, you don';t have to agree with me. But you're not exactly spreading knowledge and insight. These are all basic facts, no? If you need a friend...get a dog. You're my dog. Now you are just being obtuse....but here is a hint: What do Katyusha rockets and SCUD missiles have in common? They both give you a little hardon thanks to your military fetishism? Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 22, 2009 Report Posted December 22, 2009 Good lord, man. i know you pretend to think you're smarter than everyone else, but think for a moment: you beleive I was unaware of the first Gulf War, the sanctions, Weapons inspectors, no-fly zones, etc? No...I'm just smarter than you. I mean, you don';t have to agree with me. But you're not exactly spreading knowledge and insight. These are all basic facts, no? Again, you are not sure? You lack confidence and knowledge...a bad combination. You're my dog. ...and you're my bitch. They both give you a little hardon thanks to your military fetishism? No...I get a "hardon" even if the wind blows. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bloodyminded Posted December 22, 2009 Report Posted December 22, 2009 No...I'm just smarter than you. Sure, why not? Again, you are not sure? You lack confidence and knowledge...a bad combination. A good insulter knows better than this. It's just weak. ...and you're my bitch. The fantasies of the weak. Cute. No...I get a "hardon" even if the wind blows. Hmm. nope. You need military worship. Hence all the pretty tantrums when your heroes are exposed as less than Jesus with cut abs. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 22, 2009 Report Posted December 22, 2009 Sure, why not? Good...I'm glad that's settled. A good insulter knows better than this. It's just weak. In this case...playing down to my lack of competition. The fantasies of the weak. Cute. Fantasy is very important to you...that's OK. Hmm. nope. You need military worship. Hence all the pretty tantrums when your heroes are exposed as less than Jesus with cut abs. I am the first to "expose" them....Jesus can have your worship instead. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bloodyminded Posted December 22, 2009 Report Posted December 22, 2009 (edited) I am the first to "expose" them....Jesus can have your worship instead. Ah, right, I forgot about your literacy issue. I didn't say you worshipped Jesus...I said you worshipped military men whom you think of as Jesus. Edited December 22, 2009 by bloodyminded Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 22, 2009 Report Posted December 22, 2009 Ah, right, I forgot about your literacy issue. I didn't say you worshipped Jesus...I said you worshipped military men whom you think of as Jesus. ...we would shoot Jesus too. Please slow down and think before you post...this is a marathon.....not a sprint...rookie. Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bloodyminded Posted December 22, 2009 Report Posted December 22, 2009 ...we would shoot Jesus too. Please slow down and think before you post...this is a marathon.....not a sprint...rookie. Sure, you'd shoot him if it looked like people loved him more than they worship that Holy Entity--"The Troops." Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
bush_cheney2004 Posted December 22, 2009 Report Posted December 22, 2009 Sure, you'd shoot him if it looked like people loved him more than they worship that Holy Entity--"The Troops." We shoot anybody....equal opportunity....just ask Lincoln or JFK. It's all good..... Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
bloodyminded Posted December 23, 2009 Report Posted December 23, 2009 We shoot anybody....equal opportunity....just ask Lincoln or JFK. It's all good..... Ha! Ok, then. Quote As scarce as truth is, the supply has always been in excess of the demand. --Josh Billings
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.