Professor: Why would we stand in silence at 11am on Remembrance Day?

[Smallc]

Smart political move? Expensive without doubt, yet worth every penny.

It's not just a political move. It's a smart move for Canadian identity and a recognition of what has been done for us in our name. We can afford it.

[Wilber]

I think that is wrong.

Being a westerner, like you I had always assumed Remembrance Day was a national stat. It's not. Check it out.

[g_bambino]

I think that the day should become a federal statutory holiday. I think that Canadians should start a writing and calling campaign to get parliament to make a it a stat holiday.

Ah, but then a holiday is regarded as a day for relaxation and/or celebration. I don't think we want either for Remembrance Day, though I understand the sentiment behind the proposal. There isn't even any guarantee that people would attend ceremonies; my feeling is most would sit in the comfort of their homes and watch coverage of remembrance ceremonies, as though it was any other news event.

[punked]

Being a westerner, like you I had always assumed Remembrance Day was a national stat. It's not. Check it out.

And you are right which is just dumb. If we give the queen a Holiday surly we can give all those soldiers who served past and present one. I am as anti-war as you get but I am pro soldier, those who serve this country deserve to be honored.

[g_bambino]

...we give the queen a Holiday

We certainly do, but how many people know why they have that day off? Not many, I'd say; most probably think it's some colonial celebration someone forgot to take off the books. Why, then, would a Remembrance Day holiday necessarily improve awareness of the day and its meaning? I'm not trying to be contrary; these questions merely seem valid.

[capricorn]

I think that the day should become a federal statutory holiday. I think that Canadians should start a writing and calling campaign to get parliament to make a it a stat holiday.

This may interest you Smallc.

There's a part of Ed Pigeau that hopes Wilma McNeill's 20-year battle to make Nov. 11 a statutory holiday in Ontario is successful.

But, the president of the Ontario Command of the Royal Canadian Legion says the organization currently prefers the status quo.

"When I was young we got Remembrance Day off (school) and we did not go to the cenotaph," said Pigeau.

That's why it is important to have the education programs that currently exist inside the schools so the youth will grow to understand the sacrifices that veterans have made for this country, he said.

Most students at the elementary school level take part in education programs that include poster, poem and essay assignments with a Remembrance Day theme.

Pigeau said that is why the provincial command does not currently support making Nov. 11 a statutory holiday, despite the fact that Ontario remains one of only two provinces still objecting.

A resolution can be brought forward any time by a legion branch at the convention. The last time it happened, about six years ago, it was voted down, Pigeau said.

"We think we've assisted in teaching Canada's youth the value of these soldiers' sacrifices."

However, McNeill said there is no reason why the same education programs could not be offered leading up to Remembrance Day.

"I'm not giving up. I believe in this so strongly," she said.

Since writing her first letter to then premier David Peterson in 1989, McNeill has lobbied hard to create a national holiday for veterans like her husband Ed.

She wrote her first letter as an employee at a local LCBO outlet, disgusted that alcohol would still be sold on a day reserved for remembrance.

She has written hundreds of letters over the years to all levels of government. Her most recent, addressed to Prime Minister Stephen Harper and Premier Dalton McGuinty, asks why the two can't come together on this issue like they did in bailing out the troubled auto industry.

"This is a matter of respect," McNeill stressed.

"I'm sick and tired of getting letters (of response) when most of the times the politicians don't even bother to look at (my letters)."

McNeill said she has a lot of local and provincial support from various veterans groups, but it's been a losing war so far in getting the support from the provincial legion command.

She's asked to speak at their convention but has been rebuffed, she said.

So, McNeill is forging ahead with another petition campaign to help her in her lobby. She will be at Bayside Mall today, Sept. 18 and 25. The petition can also be signed at Schuyler's at Northgate Plaza or any of the local Southwest Credit Union locations.

Pigeau said he respects McNeill's tenacity and admits that some day the legion command may support her lobby.

But, more people are attending the cenotaphs in recent years and the status quo seems to be working well, he said.

Still, he does not discount the fact that there seems to be a growing movement across the province to make Nov. 11 a statutory holiday.

"There's part of me that hopes (Wilma McNeill) is successful."

Yet, the province controls that decision, not the legions, he said.

But, the province says without the support of legion command it will not likely budge on this issue.

http://www.theobserver.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1735902

I would prefer the status quo mostly because of the school issue. Our kids learn a lot about Remembrance in school. Otherwise they would end up going shopping with mom and dad, and a learning opportunity would be lost.

[Smallc]

Ah, but then a holiday is regarded as a day for relaxation and/or celebration. I don't think we want either for Remembrance Day, though I understand the sentiment behind the proposal. There isn't even any guarantee that people would attend ceremonies; my feeling is most would sit in the comfort of their homes and watch coverage of remembrance ceremonies, as though it was any other news event.

Well, in fairness I actually watch Remembrance Day from home because I prefer the national ceremony to a local one, but I agree that the day could be turned into one that people don't pay attention to.

[RB]

What happened in my classroom at York University on November 11th was appalling. It was a Middle East politics class, and this is the conversation that took place on the morning of November 11th:

.............

What have we come to?

York is my alma mater and my favorite university, I am still a student there. While I don't speak for the school, I do not believe there is any legal requirement that demand observances for Nov. 11. Most schools organize activities to honor Remembrance for a whole week sometimes. You can choose to get involve.

Remembrance Day ceremony set for Wednesday at flagpole York University

This year, the Remembrance Day ceremony will be held Wednesday, Nov. 11, at 10:45am. It will be an opportunity to honour and remember all members of the Canadian Forces who serve and have served in times of war, military conflict and peace.

Opportunity seize, you can choose to get involve.

Edited November 15, 2009 by RB

[Guest TrueMetis]

This may interest you Smallc.

http://www.theobserver.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1735902

I would prefer the status quo mostly because of the school issue. Our kids learn a lot about Remembrance in school. Otherwise they would end up going shopping with mom and dad, and a learning opportunity would be lost.

Most people in my town go to the legion on Remeberance day and the ones who don't observe the moment of silence at 11. Ever seen a dozen people just stop what they were doing and just remain silent for a few minutes? It's really an incredible thing.

[Smallc]

This may interest you Smallc.

http://www.theobserver.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=1735902

I would prefer the status quo mostly because of the school issue. Our kids learn a lot about Remembrance in school. Otherwise they would end up going shopping with mom and dad, and a learning opportunity would be lost.

Yes thinking about it now, I agree that it in fact shouldn't be a holiday. That said, I like the idea of having he morning as a time to remember, as we do here (I got the whole day off). I like to watch Remembrance Day from Ottawa, and I do it every year.

[Wilber]

We certainly do, but how many people know why they have that day off? Not many, I'd say; most probably think it's some colonial celebration someone forgot to take off the books. Why, then, would a Remembrance Day holiday necessarily improve awareness of the day and its meaning? I'm not trying to be contrary; these questions merely seem valid.

Holiday is certainly the wrong word but making it a national day off would do a lot to emphasise its importance. Having last Wednesday off didn't do much for anyone's weekend plans I'm sure.

[noahbody]

I would prefer the status quo mostly because of the school issue. Our kids learn a lot about Remembrance in school.

I always had it as a statutory holiday and we still did all the poster and essay contests, so there's really no school issue.

Otherwise they would end up going shopping with mom and dad, and a learning opportunity would be lost.

The malls should be respecting the day too.

[g_bambino]

Holiday is certainly the wrong word but making it a national day off would do a lot to emphasise its importance. Having last Wednesday off didn't do much for anyone's weekend plans I'm sure.

Perhaps. But, how does one emphasise to the public that their day off isn't meant to be a time to sit around the house and watch hockey? It would probably take much more than merely granting everyone a day free of employed work; specific television and radio programming, forced closure of entertainment venues, advertising campaigns, and more.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

I think we should make it a national day of mourning and respect. Let business decide what it wants to do, don't legislate that but it should be a national holiday.

[Gabriel]

With respect to the discussion about how the government should treat this day, I'm of the same opinion as some others in this thread who seem to be suggesting that you can't FORCE people to honour and respect the service of military persons (past and present). Making it a national holiday doesn't necessarily compel people to take the appropriate perspective of what the day is meant to represent. Consider for example, one of our resident extremists - KeyStone, who puts his despicable perspective on display by suggesting that Remembrance Day glorifies war. People who aren't mentally ill realize that Remembrance Day doesn't come close to glorifying war, if anything, it is entirely the opposite. Talk to a veteran and see how much they "glorify" war. What is glorified is the service and sacrifice of countless people for the greater good. Mandating days off or whatever else cannot get through to lunatics - you can't legislate morality. People will always reserve the right to be despicable and hold reprehensible views of anything and everything. What the government should do is continue doing what it is currently doing, offering memorial ceremonies and opportunities for Canadians to learn about and honour Canada's distinguished military history.

[wyly]

honestly very few people care, the number of people who attend ceremonies are a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of the population and most of those are kids in schools who are forced to attend, for me and the majority it's a shopping day, family day or get ready for winter day..moment of silence? only a handful of people stop what they're doing, I've heard that request for silence in malls and no one stops what they're doing...

I've respect for those veterans of WW2 who are still alive they went through hell for reasons they did not understand beyond their control, the dead don't know they're dead and don't care,feeling sorry for them does no good...even my father the WW2 vet refused to attend ceremonies, the last thing he wanted to do was attend a remembrance for something he wanted to forget,even refusing to accept his medals for fighting in what he considered an imperialistic war for power...

remembrance day is nothing but a ceremonial glorification for war and the military, much the same mindset that creates war in the first place...when the last WW2 vets are dead so should all the ceremonies die...

[Smallc]

remembrance day is nothing but a ceremonial glorification for war and the military, much the same mindset that creates war in the first place...when the last WW2 vets are dead so should all the ceremonies die...

What an absolutely disgusting thing to say. People from this country fight around the world in the name of liberty and freedom, so that people that have so much less than us can have just a little more, so that they can live just a bit better lives, and you can't even take the time to remember them. What's worse, is that you disparage those people who do remember them saying that we're glorifying war. It's obvious that you have next to no understanding of Remembrance Day.

[Gabriel]

What an absolutely disgusting thing to say. People from this country fight around the world in the name of liberty and freedom, so that people that have so much less than us can have just a little more, so that they can live just a bit better lives, and you can't even take the time to remember them. What's worse, is that you disparage those people who do remember them saying that we're glorifying war. It's obvious that you have next to no understanding of Remembrance Day.

Absolutely correct. It just drives me nuts that this guy lives among us in our country.

[Guest TrueMetis]

honestly very few people care, the number of people who attend ceremonies are a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction of the population and most of those are kids in schools who are forced to attend, for me and the majority it's a shopping day, family day or get ready for winter day..moment of silence? only a handful of people stop what they're doing, I've heard that request for silence in malls and no one stops what they're doing...

Bullshit, over half my town attends those ceremonies and over half of Canada wears the Poppy.

I've respect for those veterans of WW2 who are still alive they went through hell for reasons they did not understand beyond their control, the dead don't know they're dead and don't care,feeling sorry for them does no good...even my father the WW2 vet refused to attend ceremonies, the last thing he wanted to do was attend a remembrance for something he wanted to forget,even refusing to accept his medals for fighting in what he considered an imperialistic war for power...

Then your dad is rare amongst the vets, the vets that I heard talk when on about how it is incredibly important to remember so this doesn't happen again, those who fail history are doomed to repeat it.

remembrance day is nothing but a ceremonial glorification for war and the military, much the same mindset that creates war in the first place...when the last WW2 vets are dead so should all the ceremonies die...

Shows what you know about Canada and the meaning of rememberance day.

Edited November 15, 2009 by TrueMetis

[wyly]

What an absolutely disgusting thing to say. People from this country fight around the world in the name of liberty and freedom, so that people that have so much less than us can have just a little more, so that they can live just a bit better lives, and you can't even take the time to remember them. What's worse, is that you disparage those people who do remember them saying that we're glorifying war. It's obvious that you have next to no understanding of Remembrance Day.

It's obvious that you have no understanding of the causes of war. War is never about freedom and liberty, that's just what it becomes as a justification for war.

[Smallc]

So educate me then. What is war about?

[wyly]

Absolutely correct. It just drives me nuts that this guy lives among us in our country.

It drives me nuts that people like you are so historically ignorant that you are still allowed to vote thereby sending more people to their deaths in future wars.

[Smallc]

So again then, what is war really about. Educate us.

[wyly]

Bullshit, over half my town attends those ceremonies and over have of Canada wears the Poppy.

as I said a tiny minority...Calgary city of a million at two locations combined about 11,000 and many at the largest were military, vets, cadets, an underwhelming participation by Canadians...Canadians don't care it's hypocrisy and conformity that gives a false illusion...

Then your dad is rare amongst the vets, the vets that I heard talk when on about how it is incredibly important to remember so this doesn't happen again, those who fail history are doomed to repeat it.

and history is in the cause of war plays no part in the remembrance ceremony, only that people die because of it...so you are correct we will repeat the error and have in Afghanistan...

Shows what you know about Canada and the meaning of rememberance day.

no you have delusions as to the valor of war I don't...why don't we have ceremonies for dead native Canadians who fought the invading settlers?...we choose to glorify who suit our agenda...

[Smallc]

why don't we have ceremonies for dead native Canadians who fought the invading settlers?

What about ceremonies for the natives that fought along side the settlers? You have a very narrow view that clouds the way you see things.