Obama administration gives in to Israel and the Israeli lobby

[naomiglover]

Hillary Clinton, May, 2009:

"The US wants to see a stop to settlements – not some settlements, not outposts, not natural growth exceptions. That is our position. That is what we have communicated very clearly."

link

Hillary Clinton, November 2009:

"What the prime minister has offered in specifics of a restraint on the policy of settlements, which he has just described – no new starts, for example – is unprecedented in the context of the prior two negotiations..."

link

Edited November 13, 2009 by naomiglover

[DogOnPorch]

Hillary Clinton, May, 2009:

link

Hillary Clinton, November 2009:

link

So what? If the nation of Palestine is ever formed, these settlers can make fine citizens, I'm sure. Or are you for ethnic cleansing of the West Bank area of Christians and Jews?

[naomiglover]

So what? If the nation of Palestine is ever formed, these settlers can make fine citizens, I'm sure. Or are you for ethnic cleansing of the West Bank area of Christians and Jews?

Finally we have an opportunity to get rid of the burden of the settlements. Billions of tax money have been wasted into those meaningless prestige projects which has brought nothing but more conflict, costed the lives of so many Israelis and made Israel a pariah in the world politics. If the settlers don´t want to move, fine, give them Palestinian passports and we can stop wasting our tax money on them. Mazel Tov to your new life as Palestinians.

[DogOnPorch]

Makes sense to me.

[naomiglover]

And it makes sense to me DogOnPorch... and it makes sense to me.

Netanyahu 'agrees to settlement freeze' in tense talks with Obama

Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu tried to put on a brave face following the demonstrably low-key fashion in which he was received on Monday at the White House. However, Israeli officials have admitted that the nature of the meeting was “a reprimand” to the prime minister and that Mr Netanyahu conceded on a number of issues, including the settlement freeze and the release of Palestinian prisoners.

No official account of the meeting between Mr Netanyahu and President Barack Obama, which took over an hour-and-a-half on Monday evening, has been released by either the American or Israeli sides.

Both Mr Netanyahu and Defence Minister Ehud Barak, who participated in part of the meeting, cancelled their customary briefings to the Israeli press following the meeting.

Mr Netanyahu gave a short interview to Israel Radio before leaving Washington in which he denied that the meeting was tense, terming it instead “positive and focused”.

“In the future it will be understood how important this meeting was,” he added.

http://www.thejc.com/news/world-news/21893/netanyahu-agrees-settlement-freeze-tense-talks-obama

[DogOnPorch]

And it makes sense to me DogOnPorch... and it makes sense to me.

Netanyahu 'agrees to settlement freeze' in tense talks with Obama

Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu tried to put on a brave face following the demonstrably low-key fashion in which he was received on Monday at the White House. However, Israeli officials have admitted that the nature of the meeting was “a reprimand” to the prime minister and that Mr Netanyahu conceded on a number of issues, including the settlement freeze and the release of Palestinian prisoners.

No official account of the meeting between Mr Netanyahu and President Barack Obama, which took over an hour-and-a-half on Monday evening, has been released by either the American or Israeli sides.

Both Mr Netanyahu and Defence Minister Ehud Barak, who participated in part of the meeting, cancelled their customary briefings to the Israeli press following the meeting.

Mr Netanyahu gave a short interview to Israel Radio before leaving Washington in which he denied that the meeting was tense, terming it instead “positive and focused”.

“In the future it will be understood how important this meeting was,” he added.

http://www.thejc.com/news/world-news/21893/netanyahu-agrees-settlement-freeze-tense-talks-obama

A 'freeze' implies that Jewish settlers don't have kids. But, be frank...would you rather there were no Jewish settlers in the West Bank?

[Oleg Bach]

So what? If the nation of Palestine is ever formed, these settlers can make fine citizens, I'm sure. Or are you for ethnic cleansing of the West Bank area of Christians and Jews?

That term "ethnic cleansing" is the most wicked of modernist terms- It hints that something is dirty and needs to be washed. That it is a possitive thing. When the media started using the term is was a horrific bit of Orwellianism that the west assisted in perpetrating - It is GENOCIDE..MASS MURDER...I never want to hear the softend term "ethnic cleaning again...those using it are stupid.

[DogOnPorch]

That term "ethnic cleansing" is the most wicked of modernist terms- It hints that something is dirty and needs to be washed. That it is a possitive thing. When the media started using the term is was a horrific bit of Orwellianism that the west assisted in perpetrating - It is GENOCIDE..MASS MURDER...I never want to hear the softend term "ethnic cleaning again...those using it are stupid.

Ethnic Cleansing...that's exactly what most pro-Palestinians want re: West-Bank and Gaza. They don't like to use those words, either. That would make them monster-like.

One more time...for Oleg...Ethnic Cleansing.

[Oleg Bach]

Ethnic Cleansing...that's exactly what most pro-Palestinians want re: West-Bank and Gaza. They don't like to use those words, either. That would make them monster-like.

One more time...for Oleg...Ethnic Cleansing.

Palistinians that attempt to control Palistine for selfish reasons are "monster like." In turn those that control Israel for selfish reasons based in power mongering - are also monster like..so we have two sets of monsters - any real solutions my friend in these regards?

[Oleg Bach]

There is no Jewish lobby that effects the decisions of the American administration. They guys in control are going to do what they want to do no matter what. Whether they are Jewish or not it's about buisness. Sure they love to say that the Jews lobbied and change the course of American policy..not so! The gaggle of enterprizing elites create policy that generates profits for the group - that consists of all sorts of persons..who don't give a damn about race or religion as long as they get a piece of the pie...rule number on in all civilized mafia operations - "No one gets hurt as long as EVERYBODY gets paid".

[DogOnPorch]

There is no Jewish lobby that effects the decisions of the American administration. They guys in control are going to do what they want to do no matter what. Whether they are Jewish or not it's about buisness. Sure they love to say that the Jews lobbied and change the course of American policy..not so! The gaggle of enterprizing elites create policy that generates profits for the group - that consists of all sorts of persons..who don't give a damn about race or religion as long as they get a piece of the pie...rule number on in all civilized mafia operations - "No one gets hurt as long as EVERYBODY gets paid".

Today is history. Today will be remembered. Years from now the young will ask with wonder about this day. Today is history and you are part of it. Six hundred years ago when elsewhere they were footing the blame for the Black Death, Casimir the Great - so called - told the Jews they could come to Krakow. They came. They trundled their belongings into the city. They settled. They took hold. They prospered in business, science, education, the arts. With nothing they came and with nothing they flourished. For six centuries there has been a Jewish Krakow. By this evening those six centuries will be a rumor. They never happened. Today is history.

Edited November 13, 2009 by DogOnPorch

[myata]

Netanyahu 'agrees to settlement freeze' in tense talks with Obama

I could not find any news about resolution of the settlements issue in the media. The article quotes the old one of temporary freeze on the new settlement projects. As we all know by now, there are several massive (in the thousands of units) projects that are being build even as we speak.

Which goes to the approach we discussed previously and at lenght with another poster here. In the absense of real progress, one could always shuffle some words around and make it look as if there is. If Obama gives in to reducing his strategy to the oldtime word games, his international appeal, complete as it is with advance Nobel prize could diminish very quickly.

Edited November 13, 2009 by myata

[DogOnPorch]

I could not find any news about resolution of the settlements issue in the media. The article quotes the old one of temporary freeze on the new settlement projects. As we all know by now, there are several massive (in the thousands of units) projects that are being build even as we speak.

Which goes to the approach we discussed previously and at lenght with another poster here. In the absense of real progress, one could always shuffle some words around and make it look as if there is. If Obama gives in to reducing his strategy to the oldtime word games, his international appeal, complete as it is with advance Nobel prize could diminish very quickly.

If only he'd stick it to the Jews.

[naomiglover]

A 'freeze' implies that Jewish settlers don't have kids. But, be frank...would you rather there were no Jewish settlers in the West Bank?

Considering the type of people most the settlers are, yes. I would rather that they were not there. Their only intention is seeing Greater Israel and to prevent a Palestinian State.

Having the settlers in the Palestinian territory is like having Hamas settlers in the Israeli territory. Both the settlers and Hamas do not recognize a two-state solution.

[DogOnPorch]

Considering the type of people most the settlers are, yes. I would rather that they were not there. Their only intention is seeing Greater Israel and to prevent a Palestinian State.

Having the settlers in the Palestinian territory is like having Hamas settlers in the Israeli territory. Both the settlers and Hamas do not recognize a two-state solution.

There are already Arab-Israelis. So I'll just check you down as a "YES" for ethnic cleansing.

[naomiglover]

There are already Arab-Israelis. So I'll just check you down as a "YES" for ethnic cleansing.

The Arab-Israelis accept the country of Israel so it's not a fair comparison.

It's not ethnic cleansing if they are removed because they are there illegally as recognized by everyone (except for Israel0.

If they want to remain there under the Palestinian law, then go for it. I doubt that will ever sit well and that the settlers will ever agree to something like that and they will continue to cause havoc in the territories.

[DogOnPorch]

The Arab-Israelis accept the country of Israel so it's not a fair comparison.

It's not ethnic cleansing if they are removed because they are there illegally as recognized by everyone (except for Israel0.

If they want to remain there under the Palestinian law, then go for it. I doubt that will ever sit well and that the settlers will ever agree to something like that and they will continue to cause havoc in the territories.

WTFC? If the Arabs don't like living with Jews, they can move back to Jordan or Egypt.

[Gabriel]

The Arab-Israelis accept the country of Israel so it's not a fair comparison.

What a surprise - you know nothing about internal conflicts within the Israeli population. The Arab-Israeli population's feelings towards Israel can hardly be oversimplified to "acceptance of the country of Israel". Why do you speak so arrogantly about things you know nothing about? You don't have any contacts in Israel, so stop speaking as if you understand the social dynamics of the country.

[naomiglover]

What a surprise - you know nothing about internal conflicts within the Israeli population. The Arab-Israeli population's feelings towards Israel can hardly be oversimplified to "acceptance of the country of Israel". Why do you speak so arrogantly about things you know nothing about? You don't have any contacts in Israel, so stop speaking as if you understand the social dynamics of the country.

I lived in Israel until the end of my teens. However, that doesn't mean that someone who has never been to Israel does not know the simple fact that:

The Arab-Israelis accept the state of Israel within the legal and internationally recognized borders.

[naomiglover]

WTFC? If the Arabs don't like living with Jews, they can move back to Jordan or Egypt.

?

You were doing so well and then you go into another one of your fits.

[Gabriel]

I lived in Israel until the end of my teens. However, that doesn't mean that someone who has never been to Israel does not know the simple fact that:

The Arab-Israelis accept the state of Israel within the legal and internationally recognized borders.

So you left in order to avoid serving the country, obviously. Typical behaviour of a terrorist supporter. That being said, I'm not sure I even believe you (about 99% of what you say is a lie). It is a deliberate misrepresentation to describe Israeli-Arabs as fully accepting the State of Israel, as it completely overlooks major integration and loyalty issues that are known to affect them. Like you, the avoid serving their country, are disloyal, and support the enemy. Did you convert to Islam, as well?

As for me, I've been to Israel several times, and am in regular contact with friends and family there. I know a thing or two about the internal issues in the country.

I also find it interesting how quickly and easily you are able to generalize Israeli settlers (not that I disagree with your assessment), yet will never levy the same generalizations to segments of the Arab/Muslim/Palestinian population. Anyone who is honest and partially knowledgeable recognizes that anti-semitic/anti-Israeli/pro-terrorism opinions are common and strong among thee Palestinian population (and indeed, among the Israeli-Arab population). Of course you'll never acknowledge these facts, however, as these facts can't be reconciled with your beloved "innocent" civilians.

[DogOnPorch]

?

You were doing so well and then you go into another one of your fits.

Ethnic Cleansing.....it's what terrorist supporters seek. Christians...Jews...no matter when they arrived. Raus! Raus! Schnell! Schnell!! Heraus!! Gehen Sie hinaus!! (kick to the ass...blow from the whip) It'd be Poland all over again if some were in charge. Plumes of smoke from deep in the forest.

[Gabriel]

Ethnic Cleansing.....it's what terrorist supporters seek. Christians...Jews...no matter when they arrived. Raus! Raus! Schnell! Schnell!! Heraus!! Gehen Sie hinaus!! (kick to the ass...blow from the whip) It'd be Poland all over again if some were in charge. Plumes of smoke from deep in the forest.

It's Arab/Muslim land, remember? We stole it from them, apparently. I guess the terrorist supporters won't be happy until every square inch of the Middle East is turned into a tyrannical religious dictatorship, unified under a homogenized culture of extremism and terrorism and resistance to freedom of democracy. Nevermind that Israel is the one candle lit in the sea of darkness - naomi (a coward deserter to ran away from his responsibilities, assuming he's telling the truth about growing up in Israel) and his terrorist friends want to extinguish it.

[DogOnPorch]

The father of the Palestinian Arab cause was a Nazi who had personally seen to the death of nearly every Jew in The Balkans. Hundreds of thousands. It was one of those sad facts of the times...the end of WW2...that he was allowed to escape the hangman's noose at Nuremberg via help from sympathetic countries in the Middle-East...and the lack of British taste for riots.

The building in the centre of this Google Map image in Oybin, Germany is the Grand Mufti's former villa...a gift from Himmler. A minor tourist attraction, still...close to the action in the Eastern occupied areas, as you can see.

The infamous letter from the Mufti to the Hungarian Minister of Foreign Affairs. As you might recall, Hungary was an Axis-ally during WW2.

Rome

June 28, 1943

His Excellency

The Minister of Foreign Affairs for Hungary

Your Excellency:

You no doubt know of the struggle between the Arabs and Jews of Palestine, what it has been and what it is, a long and bloody fight, brought about by the desire of the Jews to create a national home, a Jewish State in the Near East, with the help and protection of England and the United States. In fact, behind it lies the hope which the Jews have never relinquished, namely, the domination of the whole world through this Important, strategic center, Palestine. In effect their program has, among other purposes, always aimed at the encouragement of Jewish migration to Palestine and the other countries of the Near East. However, the war, as well as the understanding which the members of the Three-Power Pact have of the responsibility of the Jews for its outbreak and finally their evil intentions towards these countries which protected them until now - all these are reasons for placing them under such vigilant control as will definitely stop their emigration to Palestine or elsewhere.

Lately I have been informed of the uninterrupted efforts made by the English and the Jews to obtain permission for the Jews living in your country to leave for Palestine via Bulgaria and Turkey. I have also learned that these negotiations were successful since some of the Jews of Hungary have had the satisfaction of emigrating to Palestine via Bulgaria and Turkey and that a group of these Jews arrived In Palestine towards the end of last March. The Jewish Agency, which supervises the execution of the Jewish program, has published a bulletin which contains important information on the current negotiations between the English Government and the governments of other interested states to send the Jews of Balkan countries to Palestine. The Jewish Agency quoted, among other things, its receipt of a sufficient number of immigration certificates for 900 Jewish children to be transported from Hungary, accompanied by 100 adults.

To authorize these Jews to leave your country under the above circumstances and in this way, would by no means solve the Jewish problem and would certainly not protect your country against their evil influence - far from it! - for this escape would make it possible for them to communicate and combine freely with their racial brethren in enemy countries in order to strengthen their position and to exert a more dangerous influence on the outcome of the war, especially since, as a consequence of their long stay in your country they are necessarily in a position to know many of your secrets and also about your war effort. All this comes on top of the terrible damage done to the friendly Arab nation which has taken its place at your side in this war and which cherishes for your country the most sincere feelings and the very best wishes.

This is the reason why I ask your Excellency to permit me to draw your attention to the necessity of preventing the Jews from leaving your country for Palestine and if there are reasons which make their removal necessary, it would be indispensable and infinitely preferable to send them to other countries where they would find themselves under active control, for example, in Poland, in order thereby to protect oneself from their menace and avoid the consequent damages

Yours, etc.

Edited November 14, 2009 by DogOnPorch

[KeyStone]

It's a clever (although intellectually dishonest) argument to say that the Palestinians that oppose Israeli settlers want 'ethnic cleansing'.

How about we let Jews live in Palestine, but with the same rights and priveledges as the Palestinians?

I doubt many Jews would be interested.

Palestinians, rarely, if ever get any building permits. Israel administers building permits and denies pretty much everything. Then when some building does occur, they seize that as an opportunity to say that the Palestinans have broken the law, which generally results in their entire home being demolished.

Then of course, there is more land and room for Jewish settlers to build.

Imagine that you are a Palestinian living in the occupied territories.

You are not allowed to build. You have ten people living in your house. Your son needs a home of his own.

Meanwhile, just a few hundred meters away, you see lavish homes being built by the Jewish settlers, along with pools, libraries, schools and hopsitals - all of which of course, is only open to Jews.

Meanwhile, Israel actively encourages Jews from all over the world to move to Israel? Where do you think they intend to put those people?

Do you think you might get a little bit upset?

Honestly, just think about it, instead of your usual kneejerk Israel=good, Arabs=bad reaction.

Research it. Understand what is really going on. Try to imagine what would cause people to be so upset with Israel that they would risk their life and that of their family to lob an ineffective misguided rocket at Israel (not that it is justified).

Try to expand your thinking beyond (they are all brainwashed and want 77 virgins). Do Arabs and Persians that come to Canada behave like that? Do they go around killing Jews for Allah? Why do you think that Arabs in Canada behave differently than the ones in Palestine? It's called desperation. They are being treated unfairly, and they have no hope and nothing to lose.

I realize it's a bit of a Catch 22, but to them it seems that Israel is trying to push the Palestinians into the sea.

Of course, when you have established rabbis, saying that it is OK to kill Palestinian children, because they will grow up to be evil, it doesn't do much to assuage the fears of the Palestinians that they are being systemically eradicated.

Here is a good article for you:

http://www.btselem.org/English/Planning_and_Building/Index.asp