Welfare should be elmiinated

[Oleg Bach]

Oleg,

Am I to understand that you didn't file ?

This doesn't make otherwise, as you should be able to average income over several years if you're in an up-and-down type of industry from what I understand. Or, if you want to get really smart you can incorporate yourself, then pay yourself a level salary in good years and bad.

There were years when I made my money playing the streets at Young and Dundas - we were very good..and worked very hard...no taxes payed on the sacks of change and bills...Later I and my partners lobbied the TTC - to allow the licencing of subway musicans..I was a pioneer in that area.

No I did not file - not for twenty five years - I simply never had a real job..I either painted great art or played music..and had various woman support my sorry ass..they all thought I was going to be famous and make them rich...I took on the film thing once my children arrived - and finally decided to become part of the mainstream and I filed though this accountant..It was a huge mistake - I should have never filed.

I'm to old to do what you suggested - I might start gigging again and maybe become the house band at a nice club - the best I can do it to etch out a hand to mouth existance - Cash - pay rent by food and survive - doing what I love...at least my family own plots at the Aurora cemetary - at least I have a hole in the ground that I own - other that that I own nothing...sure I would like to work - but....they don't want me..so I will have to literally stay under ground untill I am underground in my own ground....LOL>

[Michael Hardner]

Ok, my friend, well you didn't file so surely you regret that mistake ?

[Oleg Bach]

Ok, my friend, well you didn't file so surely you regret that mistake ?

I do regret not doing what was expected of me. I paid dearly for the insult to the feds - that of ignoring the bureaucrats all my life. I figured no income - no income tax..sounded logical to me. I really have a problem with forms and with math - kind of a mental barrier for me...If I could go back in time I would have done things by the book - but I was never one to be part of the team...I was always an observer of sorts.

I really don't understand - Why should I file when I have not earned what they assume? I don't think it's about the money with the feds - it's about submission and compliance...even if you don't have a penny they want the paperwork...I would say that by not filing I have made THEM money. If I did file for all those underpaid years I would have recieved quite a few refunds - I did not take the refunds - so again they made money - so what's the problem?

[Michael Hardner]

By your own admission, you made money in some years.

In effect, you're asking to be in charge of deciding on your own whether or not you should pay income tax. Kind of like Conrad Black wants to do.

[Oleg Bach]

By your own admission, you made money in some years.

In effect, you're asking to be in charge of deciding on your own whether or not you should pay income tax. Kind of like Conrad Black wants to do.

If you have finished setting up this trusting soul it would be appreciated if you refrained from attempting to convict me for the electronic record. NO - I made less than the poverty standard most of my life....If I made 4 thousand dollars in one year - let the one who made 400 thousand dollars pay the tax...WHY do you expect people with nothing to support those like yourself with everything? I have a right to surive in my meger poverty stricken little world - YOU choose to be rich - I choose to be poor - in the end it will not matter much will it? Most with resourses and finacial power hate me because I remained free - and NOW you want to punish this old man for doing what you did not have the guts to do?

[Oleg Bach]

To further your education Mike...If we bail out those on top of the entitlement heap with tax dollars - is that not in effect paying a tribute to those that have the power to jail you if you do not pay tribute?

From my experience it seems to be the case that those who sit high on the heap..usually got their start through crimminal activity - either done by a forefather or by themselves? So who is the real and true crimminal - the one with an iron fist the kind that ill gotten gains can buy - or me who likes to paint pictures of angels and play an orignal piano tune to the delight of those that seek something higher than material gain and human dominance?

I suggest you run for public office and curb the uncaught Conrads of the world - I am sure there are many - go hunt game that is worthy of your preditorial disposition - but that might mean hunting yourself...it's all very humourous in the big picture...If you want money from me then employ me.

[Oleg Bach]

So what's next - the trial of Oleg Bach for not filing a tax return - should I wait in great anticipation and fear for the feds to come to the door and haul away this poor welfare parasite, to be dealt accordingly by the federals and spite filled big buisness crowd? They know where I live.....send me a notice and I will gladly argue my case in court - but the welfare department had better supply me with a bus pass - litigation is not cheap...ha!

[Michael Hardner]

Sorry, Oleg, but you're dodging and missing the point - which I guess explains why you got in such trouble in the first place.

If you're poor then you don't have to pay. But you have to file to prove it to them. Your problems are your own fault, it seems. Hopefully, you got something good out of it while you were in the game - made some good films, created good art, made some friends, and raised a family.

[Shady]

Any idea how we ended up with a government run social safety net?

Women's suffrage.

[Oleg Bach]

Sorry, Oleg, but you're dodging and missing the point - which I guess explains why you got in such trouble in the first place.

If you're poor then you don't have to pay. But you have to file to prove it to them. Your problems are your own fault, it seems. Hopefully, you got something good out of it while you were in the game - made some good films, created good art, made some friends, and raised a family.

Yes - I did not expect to stay on set for 18 years..It was a lark..but - it was a job that was interesting..a job I did not mind getting up for at four in the morning and doing 30 consecutive days without rest..I loved the people - I fit in, finally...I fed the kids - but I could never say no to the agent - I burned out eventually and broke down - last thing I needed was to be harrassed by the government over nothing of any relevence.

I guess it was a real job in a way - like fisherman - I worked for 9 months and had three off - but people were jealous of me because I was happy...I suffered a few personal attacks..legal problems - I really thought that everyone was happy as I was - I had no idea that most of those that surrounded me hated me...It was like being Peter Pan - and I was not aging - Until they arrested me...a drunken crazed doctor who was a friend of my wife - made sure that I suffered - envy is poison...I never knew that it existed.

[Oleg Bach]

Mike..You are a pro writer. I did not know that or I would have shown you more distain from the get go. Just kidding you. I have to admit I did take the route less traveled and had an adventure. It's not quite over yet - I might just rebuild my career..will be hosting a show in a neat part of town - Might invite you up when my chops are in full bloom - you can buy me a drink..okay - a sandwhich will do..second thought..I remember the old writers that used to hang out at the old Pilot Tavern...a drunken bunch..older guys..now I am the older guy..and you are probably the young kid...Say hello to that hyper active little twerp Moore for me...back in the day as a copy boy at the Globe my job was to pick up a bottle for Needham..blind as bat he was...over and out.

[Michael Hardner]

Thanks for the compliment. You remind me of a great many people hanging onto liferaft Toronto for dear life... then realizing you can't really let go anyway.

I'm glad you got something out of your experience and encourage you to keep passing wisdom on.

[Argus]

So, if I'm understanding you correctly, you want to ensure that poor people have very limited options, so that the wealthy can exploit them as near-slaves.

Nooo, we already have that situation. The wealthy are pretty much free to exploit whomever they wish. I want the middle class to share in the fun!

But, just as importantly, I think it would be better to have the middle class paying the poor to do work for them rather than paying the poor through their taxes to do nothing. It would get some work done. I wouldn't have to rake my own lawn. And the poor would have more of a work ethic and more incentive to attempt to get ahead in life.

One of the many innumerable flaws in your suggestion, is that most of the wealthy people don't really want the 'welfare class' in their homes. Do you really want someone incapable of getting a minimum wage job looking after your kids, or being alone in your home when you are not there?

With recommendations I could. I do employ a cleaning lady who comes in now and then and cleans up around the old house because I'm too ... busy. And the lack of welfare would provide serious motivation to do a good job and respect their betters in hopes of getting more work.

[Strangles]

Slums will start dotting the outskirts of our cities faster than we can figure out what went wrong.

[Shwa]

Slums will start dotting the outskirts of our cities faster than we can figure out what went wrong.

Why the outskirts? The only difference between the poor and middle class nowadays is the size of the container and the quality of the crap. I know people that live in 2500 sq foot houses that shop at WalMart. Surely that is a sign...

[Pliny]

Why do we limit peoples' choices in this way ? Because people will make poor choices, and others will take advantage of it.

A good education is the remedy. What has been substituted for a good education but claimed to be equal,i.e., the public system, is sadly lacking.

[Pliny]

So, if I'm understanding you correctly, you want to ensure that poor people have very limited options, so that the wealthy can exploit them as near-slaves.

One of the many innumerable flaws in your suggestion, is that most of the wealthy people don't really want the 'welfare class' in their homes. Do you really want someone incapable of getting a minimum wage job looking after your kids, or being alone in your home when you are not there?

Actually it opens doors and improves their options. Welfare, on the other hand, does not offer them options. It ensures they wish to remain on welfare.

One of the flaws in your rebuttal is that the "welfare class" would not exist in my suggestion. And the fact it even exists and is a growing class is a clear demonstration of the problem with government solutions.

That was good though - "Innumerable flaws".

Edited November 12, 2009 by Pliny

[Thomas Kwon]

there should be two types of welfares..

a short term welfare that anybody is eligible for,

and a longer welfare that people must be castrated and have no children to be eligible for.

[Guest TrueMetis]

there should be two types of welfares..

a short term welfare that anybody is eligible for,

and a longer welfare that people must be castrated and have no children to be eligible for.

Your a sick person.

[Pliny]

This is silly. It is like no one has picked up a history book.

Servants were slaves, indentured slaves, and serfs. The rich got richer, the poor became even poorer. The poor will continue to breed regardless of income (see Africa, India etc).

They will then cause social strife and unrest, etc etc.

Communism is the monster that emerged when there were too many poor and too few rich.

Pick up a damn book.

I've got one for you.

Although it is true that if people are oppressed and kept poor they tend to rebel if they get the chance. You don't need a book to see that. Only the rich can start revolutions though and it was Peter Schiff that financed Trotsky in New York and sent him off to start the revolution - the grand socialist experiment. I think the poor wouldhave been content to thorw off the oppression not start an international movement. Especially one that proved to be more oppressive than the Tsar. It made everyone poor.

[Pliny]

"Before the existence of government run social safety nets people had to look after themselves and the community was very important to each individuals welfare. They all helped each other."

So then if we had this form of Community Utopia, why did the government step in and provide that safety net? Any idea how we ended up with a government run social safety net?

You never commented on my compelling argument?

No one said it was a Utopia. Everyone tacitly understood they had to work, like it or not. No one lived on the avails of others without those others willingly supporting them. The social safety net provided an opportunity for some to not have to work and those who previously had willingly supported them now had their burdens eased. Sounds like a good idea, right? Now there are those that choose not to work and it seems couldn't if they tried - they are the welfare "class", as someone called them, and it is a growing industry. The ones that had their burdens eased by not having to support another person also now didn't have to work as hard. The work ethic is destroyed. We all want to win a lottery today as we did when the social safety net was established. Unfortunately, someone still has to work to produce our essentials for us. The things we are entitled to like food, clothing, shelter, an education, healthcare...oh and don't forget entertainment.

You had to be a bigger person all around, in those days. The social safety net produces sloth, detachment from society and community and degradation - rich or poor.

[Michael Hardner]

Pliny

A good education is the remedy. What has been substituted for a good education but claimed to be equal,i.e., the public system, is sadly lacking.

You can't educate people out of being too trusting. Take it from me.

I mean it - TAKE IT FROM ME. I won't likely complain. My science degree doesn't give me the ability to not trust a friendly saleslady and as such, I own much of Florida's swamps.

[Shwa]

"You never commented on my compelling argument?"

No because you didn't answer my question which is: why did the government step in and provide that safety net?

Hint: it is a really easy question to answer.

[Pliny]

Pliny

You can't educate people out of being too trusting. Take it from me.

I mean it - TAKE IT FROM ME. I won't likely complain. My science degree doesn't give me the ability to not trust a friendly saleslady and as such, I own much of Florida's swamps.

Is that a comment on the value of your science degree?

You know, it is hard not to be nice. We are educated to be courteous, caring and sharing. We aren't educated to ask the tough questions or in any way be confrontational. We must be cognizant of the difference between what we know and what we think we know, between theory and actuality, between truth and what we accept or believe is truth. Global warming is a theory. We can exercise some caution in it's assumptions but should we start reconstructing the global economic structure in some fevered attempt to correct perhaps what is a natural event; and what damage would we do in that attempt?

I have invested in failures because of trusting the source and ignoring my own senses.

At least you own some swamp land - some have nothing to show.

[Pliny]

"You never commented on my compelling argument?"

No because you didn't answer my question which is: why did the government step in and provide that safety net?

Hint: it is a really easy question to answer.

So are you going to comment on my compelling argument?