Welfare should be elmiinated

[Oleg Bach]

One last thing. If we want to eliminate welfare...first we have to ELMIINATE the bad spellers first. Then we get rid of all those that needed corporate welfare - all those that are in need of anything - we are all needy..Even the strongest during their life or end of life will cry out in need...I hope that person has been kind - if not they can get their own glass of water while shriveling in old age. Why not eliminate pensions and get that over with now.?

[Renegade]

They're neither 100% selfish or selfless. But it's pointless for us to try to investigate what is inside a person's heart. We need to address the arguments directly, and in a public forum where people can buy in to the process. Currently, the House of Commons is the best place to debate such things.

The only reason we got into a discussion of what is inside a person's heart is because you brought up global conflcits as evidence of public motivations (ie what's in their heart).

Popular support is enough to continue.

Well, maybe the correct way to interpret the data is that the lack of popular support is what has caused it to decline over the last number of years. If that trend continues, it will largely be irrelevant or disappear.

I don't think, though, that it's at all practical a solution for the near term, and in fact I think that if we could imagine how a libertarian solution would unfold today, it would likely result in a situation similar to ours anyway, albeit more efficiently managed.

I would qualify your statement. I don't think complete libertarinism is practical in every situation, however there are many where it is very applicable.

[Michael Hardner]

The only reason we got into a discussion of what is inside a person's heart is because you brought up global conflcits as evidence of public motivations (ie what's in their heart).

Apologies. With these long discussions, you can't always remember what the original point was. I think that there's popular support for helping people in other countries, but as to whether the politics behind that, or the actual individual acts are selfish/selfless is somewhat unknowable ? How's that ? Couched in enough mitigations to say almost anything, it is.

But whether or not there is/isn't such a thing as a selfless act - acts that are intended to help others remain as a popular endeavor of collectives, especially government and there's no reason to think that any community collective wouldn't take part in that. Do you agree ?

[Topaz]

IF you want welfare gone than you better make the Feds pay people who have worked, mostly the part timers, EI benefits, when they can't find jobs. These people work, pay EI and yet can't collect it, why? Better yet if the Feds won't then, let the provinces take it on. All part timers pay soto the province, what they would normally go to the Feds, which goes into a provincial EI for them when business have to lay off.

[Oleg Bach]

What is in a persons heart is important. In the system we live in there is a type of auto pilot that allows the social machine to run itself with out to much real governance. I call it the whip the slave scenario. You have a person who is within high management - He whips the slaves that are in middle management. Middle management in turn is more than prepared to abuse those lower down the food chain. Lower down the common person needs a whipping boy also - that would be the poor - and the poor indeed push around the poorest of the poor and that is the welfare recipent. Instead of their being mutal co-operation, loyalty and love within the citizenry..there is resentment and hate..so those at the very top really don't have to control us - we consume each other.

Seeing money is our god and a sense of social status is what gives us a sense of importance it looks as if we will continue knocking down the lower guy on the pole. I see gross disloyalty within families also. Those that suck up to the state do not realize that once the lowest person is knocked down this disease spreads up the social climbing pole. Eventually as they say "they came for me" - If you believe you are immune to abuse and poverty - think again - in time all of you will witness or be part of the abuse - and you will understand that you are no better than the lowly welfare client.

We have a parsitic system that is in a state of auto-cannibalism...Consumer do not realize they are being consumed as they consume - good luck to any haters out their that believe that those at the top of the system are your friends and that you are part of a "class" - These people that oversee our system don't care if you are black or white - rich or poor - you are simple foder for the machine. It might be good advice to show some loyalty and care to your fellow humans if you are to surive in the long run. Welfare hate is a devide and conquer mechanism. There are ways and means to knock down the most arrogant and seemingly secure - Offend the tax dept..go to court and fight for a just cause - insult a bankster and you will NOT go unpunished. There is a very nasty hotel above the local strip joint..rooms are 500 dollars a month -no running water no kitchen or private bathroom - The welfare department grants these people a place to live an okays this hotel for habitation..this leaves the wefare case 70 dollars to survive the month..which means after a week they are protein starved most of the time.

What bothers me is that the drug addicts and drunks that reside in this place are supply drugs by the government - Those on so called anti-psychotics take all their medication in a day - some lose consciousness for a few days - every month there is an ambulance that takes out either a dead person or someone close to death - GREAT SYSTEM WE HAVE - the hidden shame of Toronto..the disposed of grand children of the people that built the infrastructure and those that worked in the factories to make our rich richer..it's a very slow and incrimental killing field if you ask me - but out of sight and out of mind.

[Renegade]

But whether or not there is/isn't such a thing as a selfless act - acts that are intended to help others remain as a popular endeavor of collectives, especially government and there's no reason to think that any community collective wouldn't take part in that. Do you agree ?

I'm not sure that I do. Public sentiment can be somewhat contradictory depending upon how the issue is positioned. The public seems to avoid wanting to make hard choices that decision makers have to.

For example:

If you asked the public "Do you think that the government should help the poor and starving overseas?" I'm betting most would say yes.

If you asked the same public "Would you be willing to increase the taxes you contribute, or reduce the social benefits you consume so that more can be devoted to people who are needy overseas?" You would get a different response.

Which better guages public sentiment? The public wants everything but wants to personally pay nothing. They are happy to support programs so long as "someone else" pays.

[Renegade]

IF you want welfare gone than you better make the Feds pay people who have worked, mostly the part timers, EI benefits, when they can't find jobs. These people work, pay EI and yet can't collect it, why? Better yet if the Feds won't then, let the provinces take it on. All part timers pay soto the province, what they would normally go to the Feds, which goes into a provincial EI for them when business have to lay off.

More good evidence that EI isn't really insurance. Maybe the government shouldn't run a program like EI at all or maybe they should stop making it mandatory. Either would have the same effect, as so many people would opt out of EI only those who are high risk and have high probability of collecting benefits would stay in. This in turn would signficantly jack up contribution rates, or cause the system to collapse.

[Shwa]

What is in a persons heart is important...

This is a great post! I may not fully agree on the all the details, but I completely agree with the sentiment. It reminds of the saying that we ought to love people and use things instead of loving things and using people.

Thanks Oleg Bach.

[Griz]

The solution is simple--Ship the whole damn works of you land-squattin, welfare bum terrorists back to Europe

[Pliny]

The solution is simple--Ship the whole damn works of you land-squattin, welfare bum terrorists back to Europe

Wouldn't you miss getting your cheque from the government?

Could you help us out maybe?

You know, show us how to love our neighbours and be compassionate and nurturing, like yourself.

Edited November 21, 2009 by Pliny

[Guest TrueMetis]

The solution is simple--Ship the whole damn works of you land-squattin, welfare bum terrorists back to Europe

Have you ever added somehting to the conversation?

[Oleg Bach]

This is a great post! I may not fully agree on the all the details, but I completely agree with the sentiment. It reminds of the saying that we ought to love people and use things instead of loving things and using people.

Thanks Oleg Bach.

My dad taught me one thing about competion and survival - It was a type of kind loyality to family and others - He would say when it came to cash or food...If I was about to take to much..."THERE ARE OTHERS" _ In other words he did not believe that there has to be losers and winners - that everyone can surive if they are civilized and think of others - I we have empathy and a bit of love to spare. Take the highest and richest man in the country ...even he will be rendered to a nothing in the end - I saw an old judge crying out in the emergancy departement of a hospital - This formerly important man kept crying out the word "abandoned" Even he was no better than some cracked out person that was not even fit to collect wefare. We are born equal and we die equal. Contempt and contention are but part of a game where one human creature attempts to dominate the other - but in the end they all shit their pants!

[Griz]

My dad taught me one thing about competion and survival - It was a type of kind loyality to family and others - He would say when it came to cash or food...If I was about to take to much..."THERE ARE OTHERS" _ In other words he did not believe that there has to be losers and winners - that everyone can surive if they are civilized and think of others - I we have empathy and a bit of love to spare. Take the highest and richest man in the country ...even he will be rendered to a nothing in the end - I saw an old judge crying out in the emergancy departement of a hospital - This formerly important man kept crying out the word "abandoned" Even he was no better than some cracked out person that was not even fit to collect wefare. We are born equal and we die equal. Contempt and contention are but part of a game where one human creature attempts to dominate the other - but in the end they all shit their pants!

Wow! Oleg you're starting to make sense in some of your posts--congrats--keep it up--there's hope for the world yet

[Oleg Bach]

Wow! Oleg you're starting to make sense in some of your posts--congrats--keep it up--there's hope for the world yet

I type in a very quick improvational style - It's not that I am senseless, on the contray if I am diligent I can make good sense. There is hope in the world my friend..It's the only wealth we have in storage. I was just mentioning to some of my friends that the only thing of value in the world are creatures,plants and human beings - Life forms - the rest is crap. I will say something about the welfare system..I have an associate that has been on the mean street of Queen for over 30 years - He runs one of the last cigar stores in the city..He said as far as the poor he has observed - that YOU must agree to being drugged and ruined if you want a cheque - There is one person I heard of lately that looks like a bedraggled Jesus - He is almost incoherant - They gave him cheap housing - and it's just a matter of time before he perishes alone - point being and I will repeat - They execute those that are troublesome or useless..but it is done ever so slowly in cleaver incrimentaions..I would give this guy a year and he will be body bag material.