Keepitsimple Posted October 22, 2009 Report Posted October 22, 2009 There was a whole bunch of angry Harper-bashing going on when the reality of the Federal deficit hit home. He was criticized for not anticipating it - then criticized for underestimating it......then pilloried again for revising it once more. Now we have Mr. McGuinty's deficit going from zero last year to $14 billion in March, $18 billion in June...and now $25 billion. Doesn't seem to be too much bashing coming from the media. Hmmmmm....wonder why - any thoughts? Ontario's already record budget shortfall has ballooned to a staggering $24.7 billion – billions higher than economists expected – and "difficult choices" loom, warns Finance Minister Dwight Duncan.In the fall economic statement tabled Thursday in the Legislature, Duncan revised the deficit projection upward from the $18.5 billion he had announced in June (and the $14.1 billion in the March budget.) Until earlier this year, the ignominious record was a $12.4 billion shortfall in the 1992 budget introduced by NDP finance minister Floyd Laughren. Link: http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article...to-24-7-billion Quote Back to Basics
Michael Hardner Posted October 22, 2009 Report Posted October 22, 2009 KIS, Oddly the evidence you provided bashes McGuinty more than anything I remember reading about Harper. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
ba1614 Posted October 22, 2009 Report Posted October 22, 2009 It's also funny the amount of press the Ontario Liberals have gotten over funneling cabinet ministers pay through hospitals to skirt government pay guidelines, getting paid more than twice the rate set out in the guidelines. Quote
Topaz Posted October 22, 2009 Report Posted October 22, 2009 The Federal government get more exposure due to being on C-Pac and everyone can watch what is happening. In Ontario, no TV stations carry the provincial government in question period and I think that is wrong and Ontarians should be able to watch it so they know what is going on. Quote
capricorn Posted October 22, 2009 Report Posted October 22, 2009 In Ontario, no TV stations carry the provincial government in question period and I think that is wrong and Ontarians should be able to watch it so they know what is going on. The Legislature has it's own TV channel. I get it on 129, Rogers Cable. I don't know if question period (held in the morning) is broadcast but I expect it is. I've given up watching question period in the House and wouldn't watch the Ontario bozos in action. It's a waste of my time. The highlights make it into the news anyway. Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
Shady Posted October 22, 2009 Report Posted October 22, 2009 Geez, the Ontario Liberals are deficit machines. They've put together a shortfall that rivals the federal deficit, for just a province! Yikes. And not one penny of it can be blamed on economic stimulus spending. Sad. Where's Mike Harris when you need him? Quote
Michael Hardner Posted October 22, 2009 Report Posted October 22, 2009 Shady Where's Mike Harris when you need him? Shaking with rage in the dark, knowing that Bob Rae his old rival wields influence on the national stage while Harris does nothing, apparently. Harris' wiki page indicates no major achievements since 2006, when he testified at the Ipperwash inquiry about saying "I want the F*** Indians out of the park". Harris contradicted his own Attorney General in denying his statement. A real class act. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
madmax Posted October 22, 2009 Report Posted October 22, 2009 Harris contradicted his own Attorney General in denying his statement. A real class act. Harris was a coward or shall I say Politician. Quote
daniel Posted October 22, 2009 Report Posted October 22, 2009 There was a whole bunch of angry Harper-bashing going on when the reality of the Federal deficit hit home. He was criticized ... Whine, whine, whine... righwingers can dish it out but they can't take it back... whine, whine, whine. Quote
capricorn Posted October 23, 2009 Report Posted October 23, 2009 I heard Dwight Duncan on the CBC and when asked, he would not rule out Rae days to help pay the deficit. He said all options will be examined and the tough decisions will have to be made. Yikes! Quote "We always want the best man to win an election. Unfortunately, he never runs." Will Rogers
normanchateau Posted October 23, 2009 Report Posted October 23, 2009 There was a whole bunch of angry Harper-bashing going on when the reality of the Federal deficit hit home. He was criticized for not anticipating it - then criticized for underestimating it......then pilloried again for revising it once more. "Economist" Harper: September 15, 2008: "My own belief is if we were going to have some kind of big crash or recession, we probably would have had it by now." - Stephen Harper October 7, 2008: "I think there's probably a lot of great buying opportunities emerging in the stock market as a consequence of all this panic." - Stephen Harper October 6, 2008: "I know economists will say well, we could run a small deficit but the problem is that once you cross that line as we see in the United States, nothing stops deficits from getting larger and larger and spiralling out of control." - Stephen Harper November 27, 2008: Flaherty predicts recession, offers no stimulus package December 15, 2008: "The truth is, I've never seen such uncertainty in terms of looking forward to the future. I'm very worried about the Canadian economy. Obviously, we're going to have to run a deficit." - Stephen Harper December 16, 2008: Harper says a depression is possible December 18, 2008: Harper says deficit could hit 30 billion Quote
Keepitsimple Posted October 23, 2009 Author Report Posted October 23, 2009 "Economist" Harper:September 15, 2008: "My own belief is if we were going to have some kind of big crash or recession, we probably would have had it by now." - Stephen Harper October 7, 2008: "I think there's probably a lot of great buying opportunities emerging in the stock market as a consequence of all this panic." - Stephen Harper October 6, 2008: "I know economists will say well, we could run a small deficit but the problem is that once you cross that line as we see in the United States, nothing stops deficits from getting larger and larger and spiralling out of control." - Stephen Harper November 27, 2008: Flaherty predicts recession, offers no stimulus package December 15, 2008: "The truth is, I've never seen such uncertainty in terms of looking forward to the future. I'm very worried about the Canadian economy. Obviously, we're going to have to run a deficit." - Stephen Harper December 16, 2008: Harper says a depression is possible December 18, 2008: Harper says deficit could hit 30 billion That's the whole point........that was way back in December.....and the Conservatives were blasted for saying those things. Ontario, with the benefit of an extra 6-9 months, did not "foresee" their deficit which now sits at $25 billion and counting. Quote Back to Basics
Smallc Posted October 23, 2009 Report Posted October 23, 2009 Almost every province was talking about deficits by then. It was pretty much accepted, as was the federal deficit. Quote
Battletoads Posted October 23, 2009 Report Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) In BC it's against the law to run a deficit. Then again when has the law ever stopped politicians. I have yet to see any reports on them breaking the law. provincial politics just don't get much coverage. Edited October 23, 2009 by Battletoads Quote "You can lead a Conservative to knowledge, but you can't make him think."
Smallc Posted October 23, 2009 Report Posted October 23, 2009 Actually, they changed the law before they ran the deficit. Quote
Wild Bill Posted October 23, 2009 Report Posted October 23, 2009 The Federal government get more exposure due to being on C-Pac and everyone can watch what is happening. In Ontario, no TV stations carry the provincial government in question period and I think that is wrong and Ontarians should be able to watch it so they know what is going on. Wrong again, Topaz! At least where I live. Ch 70 on cable carries the federal stuff and Ch 71 carries the provincial. I watch them often. Quote "A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul." -- George Bernard Shaw "There is no point in being difficult when, with a little extra effort, you can be completely impossible."
Molly Posted October 23, 2009 Report Posted October 23, 2009 That's the whole point........that was way back in December.....and the Conservatives were blasted for saying those things. Ontario, with the benefit of an extra 6-9 months, did not "foresee" their deficit which now sits at $25 billion and counting. Didn't forsee? Are you kidding me? A deficit in Ontario- a serious one- was a given! Manufacturing was crashing! It didn't take a finance minister nor an economist to read that writing on the wall. The only question was how bad, and the round answer was 'extremely'. The absurdity is that Harper and Flaherty seemed to be the last two people in the country to realize it! Quote "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!" — L. Frank Baum "For Conservatives, ministerial responsibility seems to be a temporary and constantly shifting phenomenon," -- Goodale
normanchateau Posted October 23, 2009 Report Posted October 23, 2009 The absurdity is that Harper and Flaherty seemed to be the last two people in the country to realize it! As I recall, Harper called the crashing market a buying opportunity. Quote
ToadBrother Posted October 23, 2009 Report Posted October 23, 2009 As I recall, Harper called the crashing market a buying opportunity. Well, that's what ten bucks and an economics degree gets you. Quote
madmax Posted October 23, 2009 Report Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) Ontarios problems are deep and quite frankly near the point of no return. I just came from a very important meeting with Corporates Government and Colleges. The writing was on the wall since 2005 the direction that Industry wanted to go, or more importantly ... "WHERE" industry wanted to go. Profitable companies and good paying jobs left with the loving support of the Federal Government under Liberal and Conservative governance along with the complete apathy of a Provincial government living in a bubble of delusion. These bunch of suckers and losers are now reaping all the benefits of the policies they have sown. Community Colleges are lost on where to go next. Industry that remains here is suggesting the volumes of skilled trades and training will not sustain a future and there isn't the volumes of jobs to go to to support training courses. Yet, everyone recognised the way out of the mess is a strong industrial sector, everyone except the Provincial and Federal Government. These two governments are dreaming in technicolour. What was funny is that the Federal and Provincial governments will be able to sell their way out of the mess, but not steer their way out of it. Only a great optimist would dare suggest that Ontario is out of the recession. All accounts suggest that Ontario is going to tank alot further. Meanwhile, the Provincial government is heading towards early learning pre kindgarten, while having a massive $26 Billion deficit. Where are the BANKS??? Cheering the Province on Every borrowed dime.... just waiting for the interest payments to roll in. The McGuinty government is the WRONG government to deal with an industrial crises, let alone a recession. The crises existed 1st, the recession was just another inconvience along the way that unmasked the disgraceful policies of the Largest Industrial Province in Canada. It would be like Alberta ignoring Oil or BC ignoring Forestry and saying, we don't need this, we are going to retrain everyone and they will be health care providers, insurance salesman and financial consultants.....etc. Edited October 23, 2009 by madmax Quote
normanchateau Posted October 23, 2009 Report Posted October 23, 2009 Well, that's what ten bucks and an economics degree gets you. The "economics" MA thesis that Harper wrote was entitled The Political Business Cycle and Fiscal Policy in Canada. It examined whether political parties manipulated fiscal policy during election years to improve their chances of re-election. Such a thesis could just as easily have been awarded in a University's Political Science Department. Harper has never worked as an economist and his thesis was more politics than economics. No wonder he viewed the crash as a buying opportunity. Quote
Argus Posted October 23, 2009 Report Posted October 23, 2009 Didn't forsee? Are you kidding me? A deficit in Ontario- a serious one- was a given! Manufacturing was crashing! It didn't take a finance minister nor an economist to read that writing on the wall. The only question was how bad, and the round answer was 'extremely'. The absurdity is that Harper and Flaherty seemed to be the last two people in the country to realize it! Don't know about that. Perhaps you forgot how much pressure they were putting on McGuinty a couple of years back to stop running up spending and to lower taxes? The Liberals came into office with a small deficit they exagerated into a moderate deficit. They then drastically increased taxes, but still continued to run deficits because they increased spending by 50% in their first term of office. And for all of that there is no noticeable improvement in health care, education, roads, welfare, or anything else. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
madmax Posted October 23, 2009 Report Posted October 23, 2009 Don't know about that. Perhaps you forgot how much pressure they were putting on McGuinty a couple of years back to stop running up spending and to lower taxes? The Liberals came into office with a small deficit they exagerated into a moderate deficit. They then drastically increased taxes, but still continued to run deficits because they increased spending by 50% in their first term of office. And for all of that there is no noticeable improvement in health care, education, roads, welfare, or anything else. Yes, they increased taxes at the bottom end. And are going to do so again with the HST. There seems to be little difference between the fiscal incompetence of the Ontario Liberals and the Federal Conservatives. Quote
Argus Posted October 23, 2009 Report Posted October 23, 2009 Yes, they increased taxes at the bottom end. And are going to do so again with the HST. There seems to be little difference between the fiscal incompetence of the Ontario Liberals and the Federal Conservatives. There is a major difference in that the federal deficit is largely due to the "incentive spending" and when that spending stops the deficit will be enormously reduced. Ontario's deficit is all program spending. There's no easy way to reduce it. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Topaz Posted October 23, 2009 Report Posted October 23, 2009 Wrong again, Topaz! At least where I live. Ch 70 on cable carries the federal stuff and Ch 71 carries the provincial. I watch them often. Do you have cable? IF you do, concern yourself lucky, because the satellite providers don't. Quote
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