Canada's media

Oleg Bach · October 21, 2009

I recall some years back a policeman was accused of running a pedophile ring, his name was published he was convicted in the court of public opinion his life and health totally ruined, several people associated with him were convicted and sent to prison...in the end it was all fabricated, the kids made up the entire story...

We have a lax system where slander and defamation seem to be tolerated. When a person misleads a court of law, whether it be a lay person or a legalist, it's common apologist policy to state.."The judge mispoke" or - "If she lied she must have had a good reason" - The court of public opinion though media and common gossip is even worse. I Witnessed an event personally where my brother was accused of a violent act..once he was done with the courts..He lost his home, reputation and a few years of his life...in the end it was clearly shown that my dear brother was simply lied about - all this was contained in one simple police report supplied by a 16 year old step son that did not want to go to school....oh well - now he does not own a home - and pays high rent..and is aging and..will never recover from this fraud and persecution.

Wild Bill · October 21, 2009

WB
I agree with Morris - I don't see how Denmark caved. Explain ?

I should think it obvious, Michael! Denmark may have officially upheld the right to publish such cartoons but in PRACTICE everyone is afraid to do such a thing again!

How does a right that you dare not to exercise matter? I'm describing the difference between what's "official" and what's real.

Edited October 21, 2009 by Wild Bill

M.Dancer · October 21, 2009

I should think it obvious, Michael! Denmark may have officially upheld the right to publish such cartoons but in PRACTICE everyone is afraid to do such a thing again!
How does a right that you dare not to exercise matter?

Ummm...bujt they did publish...more than once.

wyly · October 21, 2009

Ummm...bujt they did publish...more than once.

and they've changed/or are changing their energy sources so as never to rely on ME energy again...

wyly · October 21, 2009

I should think it obvious, Michael! Denmark may have officially upheld the right to publish such cartoons but in PRACTICE everyone is afraid to do such a thing again!
How does a right that you dare not to exercise matter? I'm describing the difference between what's "official" and what's real.

I heard a Calgary tabloid published it once but was afraid to do so again...so they've more balls than our media...

Wild Bill · October 21, 2009

Ummm...bujt they did publish...more than once.

You're quite right! I missed it the first time I read the link. I went back over it again and saw that in Feb of 2008 many Danish newspapers reprinted the most controversial cartoon as a protest to support free speech.

Oh well, as Emily Litella (Gilda Radner) used to say, "Never mind!"

I'm quite glad I read the article. I never realized that it was western countries like Canada, the USA and Britain that actually "wussed out" the most on this issue. My schooling always led me to believe that the New World was the champion of rights, as an inheritance from Britain and France. I was taught that it was old Europe that was more feeble and decadent. Yet on this issue it would appear that Denmark and many other countries are well ahead of us!

Michael Hardner · October 22, 2009

Oh well, as Emily Litella (Gilda Radner) used to say, "Never mind!" tongue.gif

:lol:

The 'wussing' may have something to do with the fact that private enterprises don't have much to gain by sticking their necks out. McDonalds wouldn't do it, so why would the National Post ?

dre · October 22, 2009

You're quite right! I missed it the first time I read the link. I went back over it again and saw that in Feb of 2008 many Danish newspapers reprinted the most controversial cartoon as a protest to support free speech.
Oh well, as Emily Litella (Gilda Radner) used to say, "Never mind!"

I'm quite glad I read the article. I never realized that it was western countries like Canada, the USA and Britain that actually "wussed out" the most on this issue. My schooling always led me to believe that the New World was the champion of rights, as an inheritance from Britain and France. I was taught that it was old Europe that was more feeble and decadent. Yet on this issue it would appear that Denmark and many other countries are well ahead of us!

Canada, the USA and Britain that actually "wussed out" the most on this issue

So not publishing a cartoon that has no journalistic value what-so-ever, contains no information what-so-ever, and has no purpose besides insulting a given demographic is "wussing out"?

I disagree... I think its good journalism and smart business to realize when a certain piece contributes nothing of value, and might cause needless trouble.

Wild Bill · October 22, 2009

So not publishing a cartoon that has no journalistic value what-so-ever, contains no information what-so-ever, and has no purpose besides insulting a given demographic is "wussing out"?
I disagree... I think its good journalism and smart business to realize when a certain piece contributes nothing of value, and might cause needless trouble.

By that reasoning, why have any editorial cartoons at all? Why have satire?

The cartoons in Denmark were about fundamentalist Islamic terrorism. The satire was about the apparent contradiction between "a religion of peace" and terrorist acts. The protests actually highlighted the irony. We witnessed fanatics burning and even murdering as a protest against cartoons that suggested they committed violence!

Editorial cartoons have a tradition of over a century of using humour to highlight inconsistencies with "official truths". If they were eliminated or "sanitized" it would be a poorer world.

Imagine a world run by the Ned Flanders types!

bjre · October 22, 2009

Nothing can be trusted from "Reporters Without Borders" whose money is come from NED (National Endowment for Democracy), the 2nd CIA,

“ A lot of what we do today was done covertly 25 years ago by the CIA „
—Allen Weinstein, who helped draft the legislation establishing NED, in a 1991 interview with the Washington Post

More recently, the NED has provided funding to the French NGO Reporters Without Borders (RSF). RSF has been accused of promoting freedom of press in Cuba more than some other countries (such as Algeria).[16]
--- Barahona, Diana (May 17, 2005) Reporters Without Borders Unmasked, CounterPunch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Endo...t_for_Democracy

Cuba
Reporters Without Borders Lies about Cuba

On May 20, 2009, Reporters Without Borders (RWB) published a statement on Cuba declaring that "anyone can browse the internet...unless they are Cuban." To support its claim, RWB offered a videotaped scene filmed in a hotel with a hidden camera in which a Cuban is denied internet access. The organization goes on to assert that "in Cuba an internet user can be sentenced to 20 years in jail if s/he publishes a counterrevolutionary article on a website (article 91), and 5 years if s/he connects to the web illegally." Lastly, RWB points out that "Cuba is the second largest prison in the world for journalists, after China," reminding readers that there are "19 detained ... under the false pretext that they are ‘mercenaries paid by the United States.’" [1]

[1] « Restricción del acceso a Internet para cubanos en el hotel Melia Cohíba », YouTube

Confronting RWB with its own contradictions is easy. In reality, at the same time the organization asserts that no Cuban can connect to the web, it provides a link to the blog of Yoani Sanchez, who lives in Cuba and who openly uses the internet to oppose the government in Havana. How is it that Sanchez manages to express herself if not via access to the internet? Her last blog post is dated May 27, 2009. In addition, she posted on May 25, 23, 22, 19, 18, 16, 15, 13, 10, 9, 7, 6, 4, and 2 as well as on April 29, 28, 27, 26, 25, 23, and 21. Thus, during the month preceding the publication of RWB’s statement about internet access in Cuba, Yoani Sanchez was able to connect to the web - from Cuba - at least 18 times. [2]

[2] « Anyone can browse the Internet... unless they are Cuban », Reporters Without Borders, 20 May 2009.

......

RWB lacks credibility given that its agenda is first and foremost political and ideological. The contradictions and manipulations of the Paris-based organization are readily uncovered and proven. Moreover, RWB can make no claim to legitimacy given that it acknowledges receiving funds from the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) [10], which, according to a 1997 New York Times report, is a CIA front "created 15 years ago to carry out publicly what the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) did clandestinely for decades." [11]

[10] « The networks of "democratic" interference », by Thierry Meyssan, Voltaire Network, 22 January 2004.

[11] Salim Lamrani, Cuba. Ce que les médias ne vous diront jamais (Paris : Editions Estrella, 2009), à paraître.

Salim Lamrani

http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_56400.shtml

Bolivarian Republic of Venezuela
Reporters Without Borders’ Lies about Venezuela ( 1)

http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_56162.shtml

Edited October 22, 2009 by bjre

Michael Hardner · October 22, 2009

bjre, you're a contradiction.

No information sources are good enough for you, it seems. The truth is that nothing is perfect, and no entity is free of influence. But even you must admit that you can express yourself on these boards more completely than you could in a controlled police state such as China.

bjre · October 22, 2009

bjre, you're a contradiction.
No information sources are good enough for you, it seems. The truth is that nothing is perfect, and no entity is free of influence. But even you must admit that you can express yourself on these boards more completely than you could in a controlled police state such as China.

First, I did not make it compare with China, that means, even if China is a hell, it can not prove Canada is a haven.

Second, I never feel China as a police state when I was in China for more than 30 years. For example, when something happened in China that a person's behavior is not agree with government's opinion, they will send some people to persuade and ask for change first, not like in Canada that CAS kidnap children away with the help of police and with pepper spray on 10 year old child when he don't willing to be taken away by CAS. Or with taser guns to shot an un-armed new immigrant to death.

Edited October 22, 2009 by bjre

Michael Hardner · October 22, 2009

bjre

First, I did not make it compare with China, that means, even if China is a hell, it can not prove Canada is a haven.

"heaven"

Second, I never feel China as a police state when I was in China for more than 30 years. For example, when something happened in China that a person's behavior is not agree with government's opinion, they will send some people to persuade and ask for change first, not like in Canada that CAS kidnap children away with the help of police and with pepper spray on 10 year old child when he don't willing to be taken away by CAS. Or with taser guns to shot an un-armed new immigrant to death.

You keep mentioning CAS, which is a different topic than freedom of expression.

Let's compare apples to apples. You are more free to express you opinion in Canada than in China - agree or not ?

bjre · October 22, 2009

Let's compare apples to apples. You are more free to express you opinion in Canada than in China - agree or not ?

Not, it is the same. Go to live in China for a year to find it if you like.

Michael Hardner · October 22, 2009

bjre

Not, it is the same. Go to live in China for a year to find it if you like.

Are you serious ? The same ?

But I can't go to Tiananmen and light a candle in public without being detained.

M.Dancer · October 22, 2009

An incomplete list of websites banned in China

http://www.greatfirewallofchina.org/test/

http://asp-cyber.law.harvard.edu/filtering/list.html

bjre · October 22, 2009

bjre
Are you serious ? The same ?

But I can't go to Tiananmen and light a candle in public without being detained.

Can you go to Haper's office and light a candle there now?

M.Dancer · October 22, 2009

Can you go to Haper's office and light a candle there now?

Is a private office the same as a public square?

You can go to palriament hill a light a candle.

Michael Hardner · October 22, 2009

bjre

Can you go to Haper's office and light a candle there now?

Your response is so dishonest.

No you can't, but neither can he go into your office without your permission.

Why are you so dishonest ? Don't you see how transparent it is ?

Michael Hardner · October 22, 2009

Mo,

http://asp-cyber.law.harvard.edu/filtering/list.html

The second list is far more interesting. Do a search for .ca domains, and you'll see that the only political party site banned is for the NDP, as well there are bans on CBC and TSN but not other television webs, or newspaper webs.

bjre · October 22, 2009

bjre
Your response is so dishonest.

No you can't, but neither can he go into your office without your permission.

Why are you so dishonest ? Don't you see how transparent it is ?

People have needs with different level.

The very basic need is everyday life.

All other thing are more than that.

To raise a child, to seeking a better way to improve one's health, to find someone can understand his own language so that he can go home is everyday life.

China has many services and warm-heard people and culture to solve this kind of problem that most ordinary people really care about and improve their everyday life. They did it good.

While in Canada, many help behaviors are restricted by laws. And become the privilege of some interest groups.

Government granted companies and government agencies continuously assault people on those very basic everyday life thing for earn money though tax. that is the real dark side that human right situation worse than China.

I don't care whether i can light a candle in a specific place. I have too many places if I want to light one.

Edited October 22, 2009 by bjre

Michael Hardner · October 22, 2009

bjre,

People have needs with different level.
The very basic need is everyday life.

All other thing are more than that.

To raise a child, to seeking a better way to improve one's health, to find someone can understand his own language so that he can go home is everyday life.

China has many services and warm-heard people and culture to solve this kind of problem that most ordinary people really care about and improve their everyday life. They did it good.

While in Canada, many help behaviors are restricted by laws. And become the privilege of some interest groups.

Government granted companies and government agencies continuously assault people on those very basic everyday life thing for earn money though tax. that is the real dark side that human right situation worse than China.

I don't care whether i can light a candle in a specific place. I have too many places if I want to light one.

I don't doubt that China has services and warm hearted people.

I'm afraid, though, that you're evading the question. First you said Canada and China are the same and now you say you don't care if they're different. Well, some care.

I'm not sure why you don't want to accept the truth about China. It's like a dog showing loyalty to an owner that beats him, IMO. I like Canada quite a bit, and I think it's one of the best places but I complain about it loudly and often. It's our complaining that makes things better.

There's nothing more to be said on the topic, really. Your transparent denials will hopefully cease at some point, maybe when you can be honest with yourself you'll be honest with us.`

bjre · October 22, 2009

bjre,
I don't doubt that China has services and warm hearted people.

I think people all over the world are the same. They behave differently because of different law where they live.

I'm afraid, though, that you're evading the question. First you said Canada and China are the same and now you say you don't care if they're different. Well, some care.

As I always said, there are some kind of things you can do in Canada but can not do in China, and some kind of things you can do in China but can not do in Canada. That is why I said it the same. I mean overall. Go to forums in China to find how they accuse their government if you like and if you can understand Chinese.

I'm not sure why you don't want to accept the truth about China. It's like a dog showing loyalty to an owner that beats him,

IMO, it is you that don't want to accept the truth about China although I don't care, I was not to start this at very beginning.

IMO. I like Canada quite a bit, and I think it's one of the best places but I complain about it loudly and often. It's our complaining that makes things better.

That is you choice. No one force you to love Canada secondly.

There's nothing more to be said on the topic, really.

I did not start to talk about this, I just pointed out the Reporter Without Border is not worth trust.

Your transparent denials will hopefully cease at some point, maybe when you can be honest with yourself you'll be honest with us.`

Is it the only way to label an opinion you are not able to prove it wrong dis-honest? Is that your final argument skill?

Edited October 22, 2009 by bjre

Michael Hardner · October 22, 2009

bjre,

Is it the only way to label an opinion you are not able to prove it wrong dis-honest? Is that your final argument skill?

I'm trying to look for away to walk away from this tedious discussion. You're now saying the countries being the "same" means you can do SOME things but not OTHER things in both countries.

Fine, the SOME things you can't do in China is express your opinion against the government freely. You can find all kinds of way to dance around it, but most would say that being able to do so should be a basic right.

bjre · October 22, 2009

bjre,
I'm trying to look for away to walk away from this tedious discussion. You're now saying the countries being the "same" means you can do SOME things but not OTHER things in both countries.

Fine, the SOME things you can't do in China is express your opinion against the government freely. You can find all kinds of way to dance around it, but most would say that being able to do so should be a basic right.

I believe, to raise a child on one's own philosophy and to seek ways to improve one's health and his family's health include seeking natural health products by himself or with others who know that are more BASIC right to everyone. People should have to basic right to take care of themselves and their family members and take the responsibility of his own risk. That makes people's knowledge grow faster although make a certain number of interest groups earn less.

Why many healthy people can die in hospital every year even when they just to deliver new babes, so that the hospitals have the right to make mistake that cause people death, while people themselves has no right to seeking alternative ways?

This only possible answer is money. I don't want to use "honest" to attack you if you want to deny it.